Redesigning airspace/IFR flying from scratch

MountainDude

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Let's say that you have a clean slate, there are no victor airways, no class A/B/C/D... airspace designations, no VORs, ILSs...
Your task is to create, from scratch (feel free to propose one or more of these, not necessarily the entire system):
- The airspace
- Navaids (place VOR's, ILSs... wherever you'd like)
- Approaches/departures
- En route rules
- Training rules for IFR flying
- Instruments that you would need/want to fly IFR

And provide full access to VFR flying and FF.

How would you do this while balancing fiscal efficiency, safety, simplicity of training/operations...?
I am thinking that the current system is not optimal, but it's here based on accumulation of different parts and rules that made the most sense at the time.
 
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That sounds suspiciously like an AI prompt. I rephrased it slightly as:
I am thinking that the current system is not optimal, but it's here based on accumulation of different parts and rules that made the most sense at the time. You are an FAA official tasked with creating an airspace system from scratch. Let's say that you have a clean slate, there are no victor airways, no class A/B/C/D airspace designations, no VORs or ILS (although those technologies exist).Your task is to create, from scratch:
- The airspace- Navaids (place VOR's, ILSs... wherever you'd like)
- Approach/departure procedures
- En route rules
- Training rules for IFR flying
- Aircraft equipment that you would need/want to fly IFR
What it came up with looked a lot like the existing system. However, there were a few differences. The full text is way too long to copy/paste verbatim so I'll try to hit the highlights and edit/paraphrase as best I can for brevity.
-------------------------
Below is a clean-sheet IFR system design—my proposal, not a description of current FAA policy. I’m using today’s published FAA/ICAO principles as the starting point: a modern system should be PBN-first (RNAV/RNP), because FAA guidance says RNAV/RNP allows aircraft to fly desired paths, can reduce vectoring and radio traffic, and can improve airspace efficiency; RNP specifically adds onboard performance monitoring and alerting. Current instrument procedures are also built around standardized departure / en route / arrival / approach / missed segments, which I’d keep in spirit even if I redesign the structure.

1) Design philosophy: what problem are we solving?
If I were rebuilding IFR from scratch, I would optimize for five things:

Trajectory predictability – ATC and pilots should be talking in terms of 4D trajectories (path + altitude + time windows), not a patchwork of airway segments and ad hoc vectors.
Navigation performance, not equipment tribalism
Graceful degradation – satellite nav should be primary, but the system must remain flyable through GNSS outages, lost comm, degraded surveillance, and partial equipment failures.
Airport access as a network problem – terminal procedures should be designed together with en route flows, not as local one-off solutions.
Competency-based IFR – pilots should be trained and checked on the kinds of failures and ambiguities that actually break IFR operations, not just on rote intercept/tracking tasks.

2) The airspace: replace “classes” with service layers
Instead of today’s Class A/B/C/D/E/G patchwork, I would create four IFR airspace service layers.
Layer 1 — Protected Surface Zone
This is the airport movement/near-airport protection envelope: runway environment, missed-approach corridors, departure funnels, and final-approach capture areas.

Layer 2 — Terminal Flow Zone
Roughly a metroplex terminal area, but redesigned around flow corridors rather than stacked shelves. Think of it as a set of “arrival tubes,” “departure tubes,” and “crossing windows” with published altitude/speed/time constraints.

Layer 3 — Free-Route En Route Zone
Above and between terminal flow zones, aircraft fly directed trajectories rather than airway-to-airway stitching. There are still preferred flows where beneficial, but the default concept is free-route IFR: file and fly optimized paths that fit traffic constraints.

Layer 4 — Remote / Contingency Zone
This covers low-density, terrain-heavy, surveillance-poor, or outage-degraded environments. Here the system becomes more conservative and more procedural.

3) Navaids: make it GNSS-primary, ground-based-resilient
A. GNSS + SBAS/augmentation as the default
B. A sparse, deliberate VOR/DME backup grid
C. De-emphasize NDB entirely

I would install:
Tier 1 airports (major airline hubs, frequent low-vis ops)
ILS or GLS on the primary runways, often both where justified
DME and robust lighting
Surface surveillance and runway-status integration
Tier 2 airports (regional / business / weather-significant)
RNAV (LPV/LNAV-VNAV-type capability where supported by augmentation)
One precision or high-integrity approach aid where weather/traffic justify it
DME if terrain or contingency routing benefits
Tier 3 airports (low volume)
Mostly satellite-based procedures
Ground aid only if terrain, obstacle environment, or strategic resilience requires it

4) Approach and departure procedures
Current FAA procedure architecture still has the right basic segments—departure, en route transition, arrival, approach, missed approach. The redesign is to make each segment flow-compatible and automation-friendly, rather than locally optimized.

Every IFR airport would have one of three departure designs:
A. Structured Flow Departure
Used at busy airports. Multiple published departure trunks are aligned to metroplex exit gates and major en route flows.
B. Obstacle-Critical Departure
Used where terrain/obstacles dominate. Strong vertical path discipline, climb gradients, and no ambiguity.
C. On-Demand Vector-Compatible Departure
Used at lower-volume airports, but still published with immediate contingency instructions so a pilot is never dependent on improvised vectors to escape obstacles safely.

All departures should be flyable:
With one-pilot high workload in IMC
With lost-comm continuity
With one major nav source degraded

I would replace many classic STARs with flow-based arrival families:
North-flow, south-flow, east-flow, west-flow families
Each family branches late, not early
Metering and crossing constraints happen upstream
Continuous descent is the default

The terminal area should feel like a merge network, not spaghetti.

For approaches, each runway end gets a procedure ladder:
Primary precision path – ILS or GLS where justified
Primary satellite path – RNAV/RNP
Contingency non-precision path – only where a real resilience case exists

Every missed should:
protect terrain without immediate tactical ATC heroics,
re-enter a known terminal delaying structure,
and be robust to comm/navigation partial failure.

5) En route rules
A. File by performance class, not “slant codes”
The clearance system should care about: lateral/vertical navigation performance, time-keeping capability, surveillance capability, contingency capability. So instead of a long equipment alphabet soup, you file a capability profile like:
NAV-P2 / SURV-S2 / TIME-T1 / CONT-C1
That is much closer to how the airspace actually uses the aircraft.

B. Default to free-route IFR
If weather and traffic allow, an aircraft should fly near-optimal city-pair routes. Airways exist only where they materially improve conflict management, terrain escape, or contingency operation.

C. Time-based metering
Busy terminal areas should meter aircraft by required times at boundary fixes, with tolerances. This reduces the need for late vectors and speed yo-yoing.

D. Lost-comms and degraded-nav should be simpler with one nationally standardized hierarchy:
Continue current protected trajectory if valid,
Otherwise join the nearest contingency route,
Otherwise proceed to nearest contingency arrival gate,
Otherwise execute a protected diversion logic.

E. Better weather integration
Major convective/reroute constructs should be published digitally into the filing/clearance system, not mainly via human translation of fragmented constraints.

6) Training rules for IFR flying
Stage 1 — Instrument control and scan
aircraft control by reference to instruments
unusual attitudes
automation basics
workload management

Stage 2 — System operation
route clearance management
terminal flow compliance
approach execution
missed approaches
reroutes, holds, and diversions

Stage 3 — Failure and ambiguity management
GNSS degradation/jamming/spoofing response
partial panel and display loss
unreliable ADC/AHRS cases
automation mode confusion
data-link/voice mismatch
single-pilot task saturation
weather escape decision-making

Recurrent training - Not just “six approaches.” I would require periodic demonstration in four buckets:
Precision path tracking
Trajectory changes under workload
Failure management
Decision quality / threat management

Rating structure
Basic IFR – non-high-density terminal ops, lower-performance airspace
Full IFR – all standard civil IFR
Advanced IFR Authorization – high-density metroplex, low-vis precision, advanced RNP/AR-style or equivalent specialty operations

7) Aircraft equipment required/wanted for IFR
Minimum IFR equipment (clean-sheet baseline):
Dual independent attitude/reference capability
Certified GNSS navigator with current database
Two-way comm, with backup capability
Transponder with modern surveillance capability
Terrain and obstacle database
Moving-map display with procedure depiction
Power redundancy appropriate to aircraft class
Basic autopilot strongly preferred but required for higher-density IFR

For full-system participation:
IFR-certified WAAS/SBAS GNSS
DME/DME or equivalent backup if relevant to performance class
Data link for clearances/flow updates where available
Autopilot with approach coupling
Independent standby instruments
Digital failure annunciation clear enough to support single-pilot operations

For high-density / low-vis / advanced ops:
Dual FMS/GNSS
Coupled precision-approach capability
Enhanced surveillance and runway-incursion alerting interfaces where applicable
Robust clock/time sync for metering
Enhanced contingency capability

Not required universally:
A VOR receiver for every IFR aircraft (backup capability only required for the operations or regions that actually need it).
 
Maybe we should ask AI to redesign the entire system, then modify the outputs where needed.
Thanks for playing.
 
Go full circle and ask AI what question to ask if you were to ask AI how to redesign the IFR system.
 
What it came up with looked a lot like the existing system. However, there were a few differences.
Exactly. And as the systems are upgraded (someday...) then a lot of what you're saying will happen.

Most of the vectors, etc. is a result of a lot of planes still flying with older panels. But that will eventually change. But then I'm guessing the people flying it that system will also complain that it could be better. :eek: :cool:
 
Go full circle and ask AI what question to ask if you were to ask AI how to redesign the IFR system.
I was really hoping to hear human inputs, since AI will be heavily biased by the existing systems. I am curious about a clean sheet design.
 
I was really hoping to hear human inputs, since AI will be heavily biased by the existing systems. I am curious about a clean sheet design.
I agree with @M20K 's post #5. I too think that the current system has already been evolving and that the FAA is largely on the right track with shepherding that evolution.

I agree with what some of AI generated and disagree with others:
* I think its proposal for equipment codes are clearer and easier to understand than either the old slant codes or the ICAO PBN codes.
* I don't think forcing piston singles to swap out VOR for DME/DME is very practical.
* I'm not sure if replacing class A/B/C/D/E/G airspace with service levels is necessarily an improvement.
* Although I'm not sure about AI's solution, lost comms is a good one to touch on as there currently seems to be a difference between what's legally required and what ATC really wants you to do.
* Replacing 6HIT looks interesting but I'm not sure how it would work in practice.
 
I'm too lazy to try to redesign the whole thing. But I'll take a shot at redesigning one part of the navaids. VORs were developed as pretty much state of the art technology when new, but it was a long time ago, and everything was effectively analog. Maintaining all that stuff now is expensive, and it's not all that great.

So... I'd plan a ground based VOR system that used three antennas at slightly different locations, each transmitting with a time or phase difference on the same frequency. So an aircraft with a single antenna could calculate it's horizontal direction relative to the VOR system with just a time based calculation. And the transmitting system would be equally simple, just a phase or time change, nothing to drift. Cheap and effective. If DME were switched to a lower power more efficient modulation, like phase shift keying, it could be done with a 5W rather than 25W or so transmitter, and the whole thing would be less expensive.

Next, VOR receivers would be built with a database and a simple INS built in, and would use the VOR's it hears to update its position. So when you hit the button that switches between GPS and VOR, you're not just switching to one VOR for the approach, you'd have a GPS mode, a GPS mode w/ VOR, and a fully INS/VOR mode. So two potentially independent and wide area navigation systems with moving maps.

I'm also nearly certain it would be possible to design a similar ILS system that made use of timing rather than frequency for precision ground based approaches that were at least as accurate, much less expensive, and that would not require the antenna complexity of current ILS.

All likely too expensive to do from scratch. But VOR/ILS v2 would be cool. It would make it possible to have more of them cheaper.
 
This is a good and interesting question I think
but I also think questions like these are scary if asked "for real". Redesigning long-standing things can be very dangerous. There are tons of things in procedures that have been written in "blood, sweat, and tears"... and the players of the game may not know any of the what's and whys....or worse yet they may think that they know it all, but may only now a little part.

Anyway, it's been a long while since I was proficient so I don't feel confident to add much to the conversation.
but I do have two thoughts that I'd want to look into a little more....

1) data linking for things like clearances

2) for for the GPS back-up, I've long thought that NDB's might be good. Seems like little relatively low powered NDB's might be cheap and simple enough that one could be placed at almost every airport. I think that there was beauty in their simplicity and really the only difficulty came when trying to triangulate stations that were located off airport. It was pretty simple to nav to an airport with an on-field NDB
and with modern tech what it is, the receivers in the aircraft could do some fun automatic magic triangulating and such
 
Why separate radio nav and GPS? Just have the ground VOR towers ping out GPS locations, and your navigator automatically uses both VOR and GPS to determine you position, speed, altitude, etc. Navigator just pulls up any VOR tower in range automatically. If the GPS goes down, the VOR towers just keep feeding the navigator. Reduced accuracy, but something keeps working.
 
Why separate radio nav and GPS? Just have the ground VOR towers ping out GPS locations, and your navigator automatically uses both VOR and GPS to determine you position, speed, altitude, etc. Navigator just pulls up any VOR tower in range automatically. If the GPS goes down, the VOR towers just keep feeding the navigator. Reduced accuracy, but something keeps working.
Isn't that just DME/DME RNAV?
 
Isn't that just DME/DME RNAV?
No, that would be Bearing navigation where the Nav computer was taking bearings off any available VORs. For DME/DME you would need a DME, but only VOR was specified here.

Down side is there are lots of places where you can only receive one VOR, so there would not be a way to get a cross-check bearing to actually know where you really were. You'd only know you're on the XXX radial but not how close or far you were from the VOR. But then if we're talking in the future, my guess the Nav computer would be an extension of the current FMS system that takes in all sorts of information and incudes an inertial reference. So one VOR might be enough just to confirm what the computer thinks is it's location.
 
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Make all airspace under 3000’ agl uncontrolled. Jet ports excluded.
So you're shooting an approach into a great little non-towered Apt and you break out at 500ft and there's a C150 doing 60kts turning final in front of you.

Hey, he's clear of the clouds JUST under the overcast and at 500' there is 1 mile visibility. And if you don't fly IFR... You're the plane that just turned final with a twin that is about to set his gear down on top of your wings. :p
 
Here are some thought starters

ADSB out mandatory
Radio mandatory (handheld radio if needed)
 
I'll add another.... It would be pretty nice if ATIS/ASOS data was also available digital and simulcast with the VOR, so your VOR/GPS nav system would automatically know wind direction and recommended runway/approach.
 
I'll add another.... It would be pretty nice if ATIS/ASOS data was also available digital and simulcast with the VOR, so your VOR/GPS nav system would automatically know wind direction and recommended runway/approach.
That would require some legal gymnastics…generally the reason it doesn’t is because different government entities own the facilities.
 
Odd. I know there are non electrical system planes (old cubs, etc) that fly without a radio. I’ll have to dig into that. Surely they aren’t illegal to fly? Even Oshkosh has provisions for non radio planes.
 
That would require some legal gymnastics…generally the reason it doesn’t is because different government entities own the facilities.
That's fair. Right now it would be more than tricky, because the radios aren't setup to run that way at all. But if VOR2's were inexpensive to purchase and maintain, and built with more modern tech, it would be pretty easy to bake an input for data to be transmitted out. Then the tech would be simple, inexpensive and safe, so it would seem simpler to let other groups use it.

I'm normally not the one to propose new tech to solve problems, because it's always harder to implement than people realize. But given OP's premise of "design from scratch", then why not? It's just a thought exercise. Implementing any of this would be tough, partly because of the long transition time from one to the other, and probably more that many people would have to agree to it.
 
It would be pretty nice if ATIS/ASOS data was also available digital and simulcast with the VOR
So if there are 3, 4 or even 5 airports around a VOR, who gets to broadcast their ATIS??

And that info is already available on ADS-B (FIS-B), so no reason it can't pick it up there. Or with new radios there is also no reason if you have XYZ airport dialed in as the destination that your comms can't just be picking up the ATIS in the background.
 
So if there are 3, 4 or even 5 airports around a VOR, who gets to broadcast their ATIS??

And that info is already available on ADS-B (FIS-B), so no reason it can't pick it up there. Or with new radios there is also no reason if you have XYZ airport dialed in as the destination that your comms can't just be picking up the ATIS in the background.
I meant VOR's at airports. In my model they'd be cheap and plentiful, like pretzel often were at bars. You're right, wouldn't make sense for stand alone VOR's to have weather. It could be tied to tower/ctaf I suppose, but that might be weirder, as those communications channels are asynchronous, while VOR2 would probably be rapid periodic bursts.

I don't know that I'd keep ads-b in my model. If I were doing science fiction new radio, I might make ground based primary again, and have GPS be the fallback.
 
Odd. I know there are non electrical system planes (old cubs, etc) that fly without a radio. I’ll have to dig into that. Surely they aren’t illegal to fly? Even Oshkosh has provisions for non radio planes.
No, they are not legal to fly IFR which I thought is the main topic of this thread. It's in the title of the thread, after all.
 
Ah - I thought the OP was discussing both airspace and IFR.
 
Let's say that you have a clean slate, there are no victor airways, no class A/B/C/D... airspace designations, no VORs, ILSs...
Your task is to create, from scratch (feel free to propose one or more of these, not necessarily the entire system):
- The airspace
- Navaids (place VOR's, ILSs... wherever you'd like)
- Approaches/departures
- En route rules
- Training rules for IFR flying
- Instruments that you would need/want to fly IFR

And provide full access to VFR flying and FF.

How would you do this while balancing fiscal efficiency, safety, simplicity of training/operations...?
I am thinking that the current system is not optimal, but it's here based on accumulation of different parts and rules that made the most sense at the time.

If the politicians have such an opportunity, I am afraid this will result in an airspace system where GA flying will be severely curtailed. There will be two types of airspaces - controlled and uncontrolled. VFR will be permitted only in uncontrolled airspace, below 3000 ft and only in sparsely populated areas. All other areas will be controlled, where you must be IFR, under radar surveillance and talking to a controller. Special airspaces may be carved out for training purposes in Florida and Arizona where airliners conduct their cadet training. Part 61, well, there is no need for that. There will be ATC user fees, because the new airspace will have enhanced safety features and more controllers, and someone has to pay for all that.
 
If the politicians have such an opportunity, I am afraid this will result in an airspace system where GA flying will be severely curtailed. There will be two types of airspaces - controlled and uncontrolled. VFR will be permitted only in uncontrolled airspace, below 3000 ft and only in sparsely populated areas. All other areas will be controlled, where you must be IFR, under radar surveillance and talking to a controller. Special airspaces may be carved out for training purposes in Florida and Arizona where airliners conduct their cadet training. Part 61, well, there is no need for that. There will be ATC user fees, because the new airspace will have enhanced safety features and more controllers, and someone has to pay for all that.
I was not really asking about what politicians would do; how would the people familiar with the system and all its complexities/inefficiencies redesign it from scratch.
 
I meant VOR's at airports. In my model they'd be cheap and plentiful,
But that's the problem and why they're being decommissioned. They're not cheap.

In a future world besides GPS (being the old grandfather's navigation, like NDB's today:p), there will be some newer mix of a GPS type system and probably a newer version of DME or ground based GPS type transmitters.

It's pretty simple to triangulate with DME signals. And GPS has proven that low powered transmissions can be read through Wx and other interference. So I'm *assuming* they will come up with some low powered system that runs off of solar power and can be updated remotely. Just plant these devices all over the place and you have GPS from above and these other whatever devices on mountain/hill tops, at airports, etc., etc. for the local positioning if the higher GPS are being messed with.
 
I'm not sure that a ground-based system is strictly necessary (says the guy with two nav radios in his updated panel). In a future where I could wave my hand, we'd develop an economical and satisfactorily accurate inertial navigation system for retrofit into GA aircraft. With a known-location starting point (either GPS based or airport-based calibration location as a back-up), you'd eliminate the need for ground system maintenance, range/MON concerns, DME, triangulation, and so forth. It would be seamless in the cockpit: magenta needles for GPS guidance and green needles for INS guidance.

GPS can be compromised. It makes sense to have a nearly identical system that doesn't depend on satellites at all but is functionally similar from the pilot perspective.
 
I'm not sure that a ground-based system is strictly necessary (says the guy with two nav radios in his updated panel). In a future where I could wave my hand, we'd develop an economical and satisfactorily accurate inertial navigation system for retrofit into GA aircraft. With a known-location starting point (either GPS based or airport-based calibration location as a back-up), you'd eliminate the need for ground system maintenance, range/MON concerns, DME, triangulation, and so forth. It would be seamless in the cockpit: magenta needles for GPS guidance and green needles for INS guidance.

GPS can be compromised. It makes sense to have a nearly identical system that doesn't depend on satellites at all but is functionally similar from the pilot perspective.
I know nothing about inertial nav and what it would take equipment-wise, but this is an interesting idea. Seems like though it could drift and loose precision over the time of a long flight, so the accuracy is lost when you need it most doing an approach...

I could be wrong, but I don't think my low-powered NDB idea would really require very much maintenance or other concerns though, and something like that might be a way to calibrate and augment your inertial system. Simple transmitter with a small antenna on the roof of the FBO or whatever....
I'm thinking a simple low-powered NDB at most or all major airports, just reaching out a short distance, maybe 15 miles or so...or maybe a little further in areas where airports and locations are farther between... I'm not convinced that it's needed, but with tech what it is these could be something more than a "dumb" NDB....adding digital info like station ID, location, or whatever.
At any point in a flight you'd not be far from a checkpoint and if the box in the plane had multiple channel receivers and a database of them, it can make quick work keeping track of where you are, verifying stations and disregarding ones that don't look correct....and as an aircraft approaches a field, there's a stable homing signal to use. If they go offline with power outages or whatever, there would be plenty of other stations around, so you'd always be able to locate yourself....

Couple that with your intertial thing and the NDBs could be even shorter range and spread further apart. Just a way to fix your intitial point, and to calibrate it from time to time en route. & It would give a simple ground-based signal to use for the approach to landing.
 
Make WAAS level GPS mandatory for the plane's IFR certification.

Do something where you don't hear multiple airports at the same time because they are sharing the same CTAF frequency.
 
But that's the problem and why they're being decommissioned. They're not cheap.

In a future world besides GPS (being the old grandfather's navigation, like NDB's today:p), there will be some newer mix of a GPS type system and probably a newer version of DME or ground based GPS type transmitters.

It's pretty simple to triangulate with DME signals. And GPS has proven that low powered transmissions can be read through Wx and other interference. So I'm *assuming* they will come up with some low powered system that runs off of solar power and can be updated remotely. Just plant these devices all over the place and you have GPS from above and these other whatever devices on mountain/hill tops, at airports, etc., etc. for the local positioning if the higher GPS are being messed with.
You're right, they are not cheap. My premise is that they're not cheap because they're based on an old analog system, which I think used a physically rotating antenna. Now they can do that electronically, but to do so accurately - again as I understand it - requires a lot of antennas and a complex system. Because it was state of the art 50+ years ago or whatever.

Now if VOR were time or phase based, it could be built on 3 transmitters...I don't know the distance, maybe a few feet, maybe 10's or 100's of yards apart, where they're connected by cable, and the receiver in the aircraft listens to all three. Based on how the phases are heard or the timing, it would be easy to get a bearing. It's the reverse of the phase angle system used in combat in Vietnam to triangulate enemy radio transmitters on the ground, later sold to hobbyists as "doppler" DF. Instead of 3-4 antennas at the receiver doing timing to find angle, you use multiple transmiting antennas and a single receiver. The electronics and timing and math are simple and it would be cheap. Like, you could toss it together...not counting installation...from 3 COTS radios and a small microcontroller, probably less than $500 at the Ali-express level of tech quality.

You could add DME, but I think that would have to work a bit like VOR-DME does now, in time of flight from airplane to VOR and back. Because the GPS based distance solutions require all the clocks to be syncronized. The ground system I laid out doesn't require any connectivity or sync at all between different VOR installations. The 3 ground antennas for one VOR need to be, but that can be done via cable. But...VOR-DME could be made cheaper if it weren't some form of AM or FM and instead PSK, because the signal to noise ratio is something like 10x better, so it would only need maybe 1/4 or less the power.
 
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