Recommended order to get ratings/endorsements

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Willow

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Willow
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I am wanting to get my IR, CPL, HP, and complex and was wondering what the best order would be to do that to reduce costs and total time needed.
 
Private
Instrument
Commercial

High performance endorsement anytime after private. My HP endorsement was a whopping half hour flight in a 182 with 1 t/o and 1 landing.

Do the complex endorsement during the commercial training if they are using retracts. Otherwise, any time.
 
Ratings: IR then Commercial
Endorsements. Get them if/when you need them. The Commercial used to require Complex; that can be accomplished with TAA now and one need bring neither to checkride anymore.


ETA: when doing you’re Instrument, use 10 hours towards the 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(i) Commercial requirement; make sure it’s commented as such in your logbook. If you do that in a TAA, complex, or turbine, you’ve also completed the 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) requirement for Commercial.

Finally, tomorrow, go out and fly the 14 CFR 61.129(a)(4)(i) cross country and you’re most of the way there.
 
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EdFred said:
Private
Instrument
Commercial

High performance endorsement anytime after private. My HP endorsement was a whopping half hour flight in a 182 with 1 t/o and 1 landing.

Do the complex endorsement during the commercial training if they are using retracts. Otherwise, any time.
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Would I be able to do HP and Complex together as the 182 at my local flight school has a retractable landing gear?
 
Willow said:
Would I be able to do HP and Complex together as the 182 at my local flight school has a retractable landing gear?
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Usually not a problem. Working the gear and flaps merges nicely with the power management.
 
Wait to get the HP/Complex until you actually have something you want to fly often that requires them... You will need a checkout someday in it anyway.
 
TCABM said:
Finally, tomorrow, go out and fly the 14 CFR 61.129(a)(4)(i) cross country and you’re most of the way there.
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Also, the day after that, go do 14 CFR 61.129(a)(4)(ii).

Also also, what is your mission/goal?
 
ja_user said:
Wait to get the HP/Complex until you actually have something you want to fly often that requires them... You will need a checkout someday in it anyway.
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I have something I want to fly often that requires them already
 
GeorgeC said:
Also, the day after that, go do 14 CFR 61.129(a)(4)(ii).

Also also, what is your mission/goal?
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My goal is to be able to fly just for fun and also to offer cheaper choices for animal rescues to relocate animals to homes.
 
Willow said:
I have something I want to fly often that requires them already
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Well then there's a little more to consider, if you're looking to do it the least expensive way, or the most effective way. And reducing "costs" and reducing "total time" may very well be opposing goals.

If there is a complex/high performance airplane you are looking to fly regularly, then the "best" way is to do your IR and CP in that airplane. Then you'd be most comfortable in that airplane in real-world flying. And that may be the lowest time route, since you have to fly SOMETHING anyway, might as well learn the plane at the same time.

But that's probably not the cheapest way. Cheapest would be to do your IR in something cheap, then your CP in something cheap, then get your endorsements in that HP/complex airplane. But of course, you're then going to need to learn IFR flying in that airplane as well - so some extra time there. Your checkout time in the HP/complex airplane isn't already being built-in to the other ratings.

Depending on the availability of this other airplane, and the cost difference, there may be a middle ground where you do some of each rating in it, or something like that. But that has the risk of introducing complexity.
 
Willow said:
My goal is to be able to fly just for fun and also to offer cheaper choices for animal rescues to relocate animals to homes.
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I was going to post something else, but reading this I'm remembering something I read earlier. You're looking to volunteer to do animal rescue flights, and they require a commercial pilot with instrument rating, am I right? If so, that's a noble thing to do.
 
RussR said:
Well then there's a little more to consider, if you're looking to do it the least expensive way, or the most effective way. And reducing "costs" and reducing "total time" may very well be opposing goals.

If there is a complex/high performance airplane you are looking to fly regularly, then the "best" way is to do your IR and CP in that airplane. Then you'd be most comfortable in that airplane in real-world flying. And that may be the lowest time route, since you have to fly SOMETHING anyway, might as well learn the plane at the same time.

But that's probably not the cheapest way. Cheapest would be to do your IR in something cheap, then your CP in something cheap, then get your endorsements in that HP/complex airplane. But of course, you're then going to need to learn IFR flying in that airplane as well - so some extra time there. Your checkout time in the HP/complex airplane isn't already being built-in to the other ratings.

Depending on the availability of this other airplane, and the cost difference, there may be a middle ground where you do some of each rating in it, or something like that. But that has the risk of introducing complexity.
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it would cost me about 350-400 dollars a month for the plane I will be flying after or about $125/HR to train on diffrent plane
 
ja_user said:
Wait to get the HP/Complex until you actually have something you want to fly often that requires them... You will need a checkout someday in it anyway.
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I disagree. Using a faster plane for the IR XC flights can make a lot of sense (assuming you have access to a complex/HP rental).

For me, I checked out complex in an Arrow immediately after PPL, then used Arrow and Bonanza for the IR XC flights. Since both of these happen to have similar nav systems (450W/530W), it's not adding a lot of complexity.
 
Willow said:
also to offer cheaper choices for animal rescues to relocate animals to homes.
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FYI you don't need a Commercial to fly for Pilots and Paws and similar. And the rescues don't pay at all (all volunteer, but you can deduct fuel costs), so it is MUCH cheaper for them.
 
Albany Tom said:
I was going to post something else, but reading this I'm remembering something I read earlier. You're looking to volunteer to do animal rescue flights, and they require a commercial pilot with instrument rating, am I right? If so, that's a noble thing to do.
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They dont but my insurance does require it.
 
HP and Complex can be done in a single session at the same time as a familiarization/checkout flight whenever you need them. That’s how I did mine.
 
Angel Flight requires IR, but not Commercial.

Angel Flight had me add their name to my policy, no issues with insurance company.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I disagree. Using a faster plane for the IR XC flights can make a lot of sense (assuming you have access to a complex/HP rental).

For me, I checked out complex in an Arrow immediately after PPL, then used Arrow and Bonanza for the IR XC flights. Since both of these happen to have similar nav systems (450W/530W), it's not adding a lot of complexity.
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But those are dual flights. Use whatever you want, you don’t need the endorsements if the Cfi has them.

It wouldn’t make sense to do 2-3hrs for the endorsements to save a little time on the ifr xc.
 
Years ago I took a big piece of paper and at the top wrote down my end goal. Let's say it was earning an ATP. Then I went to the FARs and wrote down each of the separate independent statutory requirements (for an ATP in this example). Then for each step along the way I did the same. After working my way down to my Discovery Flight and logged hours, I worked my way back up - programming time and money.

Many requirements could be combined, night, complex, instrument, XC. I know people who have flown their Sport Pilot XCs to Private standards, etcetera. Nothing is written in stone. Weather, CFI, aircraft, and DPE availability is variable. Be able to move laterally and avoid bottlenecks.

It's a long game, and wasted effort to get a Private at 40.1 hours if you can't earn without a Commercial and 250 hours.
 
ja_user said:
But those are dual flights. Use whatever you want, you don’t need the endorsements if the Cfi has them.

It wouldn’t make sense to do 2-3hrs for the endorsements to save a little time on the ifr xc.
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You can get the endorsements as part of those XC flights, so no extra time required.
 
StraightnLevel said:
You can get the endorsements as part of those XC flights, so no extra time required.
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Might as well get the tailwheel at the same time too, you can get 3 landings in and get signed off for that, HP, complex and learn ifr xc at the same time . I’m sure you’ll learn and absorb it all with no gaps.

I stand by my original statement, just wait until you have something that you actually want to fly requires it. Then do it as part of the checkout/insurance requirements anyway.

If you ever do multi you’ll likely get complex when you do that one, unless you can find a fixed gear one. You could go your whole career and never have a need for a HP endorsement.
 
ja_user said:
You could go your whole career and never have a need for a HP endorsement.
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Really? The SR22 is the number one selling piston single. I fly a Bonanza, as do many thousands of others.

If your only intent is to fly short distances, sure....but why do you need anything other than Sport or PPL for that?

I would posit that pilots looking at advanced ratings (Instrument, Commercial, ATP) are generally headed towards longer flights, and that means higher performance airplanes.

Tailwheel? That seems to me to be a completely different direction from the other advanced ratings.....am I missing something?
 
StraightnLevel said:
Really? The SR22 is the number one selling piston single. I fly a Bonanza, as do many thousands of others.

If your only intent is to fly short distances, sure....but why do you need anything other than Sport or PPL for that?

I would posit that pilots looking at advanced ratings (Instrument, Commercial, ATP) are generally headed towards longer flights, and that means higher performance airplanes.

Tailwheel? That seems to me to be a completely different direction from the other advanced ratings.....am I missing something?
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Not the #1 of all time.
How many people out there own Grummans, Arrows, 172s, or Cherokees? My dad owned and flew for almost 20 years and never got a HP or complex.
I flew my Cherokee 180 to 47 of the contiguous 48. Didn't have an HP for that. I guess those 2000nm+ cross countries were "short distances."
 
billsgs126 said:
I have to ask. Which one did not make the cut?
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I'm out of Michigan, and the missing state was North Dakota.
I brought the plane in NC and landed in OH on the way home.
Then knocked out IN, IL, WI, MN on lunch runs and weekend trips.
One year I did 3 separate trips that checked off
PA, NJ, DE, MD​
MO and AR.​
IA, NE, SD, WY, MT, ID, WA, OR, NV, CA, AZ, UT, CO, NM, TX, OK, KS.​
Then the next year I did two trips to check off
WV, CT, RI, MA, NH, ME, VT, NY​
LA, MS, FL, AL, GA, SC, TN, VA, KY​
Then the plane got sold. So I only knocked out 47 of them in the Cherokee.

But yeah, < 200HP fixed gears aren't used for going anywhere at all.

ND has since been visited twice in the Comanche.
 
EdFred said:
But yeah, < 200HP fixed gears aren't used for going anywhere at all.
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Years ago I read a pre-2001 story about a guy and his GF (both pilots) who flew a Pacer or maybe Tri-Pacer from Florida to Alaska. They sold it there and a year or two later repeated the trip with a Super Cub.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I disagree. Using a faster plane for the IR XC flights can make a lot of sense (assuming you have access to a complex/HP rental).
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Depends on which cross country requirements you are trying to meet. Any that have a distance requirement, yes going faster makes sense. But for those with hour requirements, or for the IFR trying to build the required XC time, slower and cheaper makes more sense.
 
ja_user said:
Might as well get the tailwheel at the same time too, you can get 3 landings in and get signed off for that, HP, complex and learn ifr xc at the same time . I’m sure you’ll learn and absorb it all with no gaps.
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Beech Staggerwing. :D

TW, HP, Complex, Instrument time, all in one. :D
 
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