<Rant> Please announce your intentions in English for us mortal VFR pilots</Rant>

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WannFly, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Yep, I'll usually at some point reference that I'm inbound on the localizer approach, straight in RWY23. That way the VFR guys know that I'm at least on an approach and not just being a weenus entering the pattern on a long final.
     
  2. TheGolfPilot

    TheGolfPilot Line Up and Wait

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    Huge pet peeve here. Make calls that any pilot will understand.
    I personally use direction and distance from airport. Xyz traffic, Archer 83U, 10 miles to the Northwest to land, xyz.

    I was flying with a friend the other day and he was telling me all the reporting points for the airport he was learning at and I spent the time explaining that those points mean nothing to a transient pilot. So even though the controller and other local pilots may know where he is, the people with the least local knowledge are left in the dark.

    It is even worse for IFR guys. If you are on an approach, you aren’t talking to other IFR traffic. You are talking guys flying with vfr sectionals in vfr conditions and you are reporting IFR waypoints. Worthless. You just wasted radio air time.
     
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  3. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The abusers of this are rarely military.

    Oddly, I've flown out a number of mixed use and even one completely military field, and you don't run into this arrogance. It's almost always miltary wannabees mixing it up with the rest of the traffic. If you're 1000' 3 miles south of the field say that.

    You might want to read that section in the AIM again on overheard procedures. It's not something designed for barging into VFR patterns at uncontrolled fields.
     
  4. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I explained that I thought from the post that he was referring to military pilots. He corrected me and I acknowledges I misunderstood his post. If you're telling me I need to read the AIM about OH patterns, I was an Air Force controller at many bases and don't need to educate myself on OH patterns, especially since one base I was assigned had over 130 fighters on the field. I know a thing or three about OH patterns.
     
  5. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    OH....... see what I did there?

    What is OH pattern?
     
  6. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    overhead traffic pattern
     
  7. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Thank you.
     
  8. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You're welcome ;)
     
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  9. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    Pick any weekend around my home drome and the air is thick with IFR pilots practicing approaches, a VOR on one end and a RNAV with HILPT on the other. Probably more of them than vfr guys poking holes in the air. I'd sooner have them tell me "UNYTS inbound" then "10 to the NW" when I'm on the feeder route under the hood heading for UNYTS to enter the hold.
     
  10. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It doesn't do much good to tell individual pilots to learn IFR terms if the FAA is not requiring it to be taught to student pilots. As an IFR pilot, I consider it in my own best interest to make position reports that can be understood by all the other pilots on the frequency, including the ones who haven't had IFR training.
     
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  11. chartbundle

    chartbundle Line Up and Wait

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    I've seen this often on this thread. But out here I'd still be taking to approach until I made the inbound turn and they would already have advised me someone just left the hold. Some places(San Diego) you wouldn't have a choice on practice approaches, but even in the hinterlands of central California or Oregon everyone still talks to approach/center for their practice approaches.
     
  12. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I’m not sure where we are in disagreement other than I feel it’s a good idea to familiarize oneself with some of the terminology.
     
  13. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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  14. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
     
  15. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Is it possible that there may two Mooneys in the area? Type and last three for me.
     
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  16. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That might be OK for a Mooney, but many times there will be more than one Cessna or more than one Skyhawk in the pattern. A lot of pilots add the color, but then you have the problem that a large number of Cessnas look white until you get too close for comfort.
     
  17. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Perhaps I misunderstood.
     
  18. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

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    Some sort of FCC requirement. AIM examples use tail number as well.
     
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  19. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

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    Go somewhere where E-R trains and just say "Skyhawk entering downwind", when there are 5 Skyhawks in the pattern already...
     
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  20. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unless it's the DEA.
     
  21. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    Some reporting points are listed on sectionals, at least, the VFR ones. What bothers me more is when there are reporting points that are not even on the sectional.. and still used by ATC

    There a video of a VFR guy going into Las Vegas BRAVO (topic for another thread) and ATC was giving him vectors based on local landmarks that were not (at least I could not find them) depicted on the charts. Mr.VFR held it together relatively well I thought
     
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  22. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Just tell ATC you're not familiar with them and they won't expect you to use them.
     
  23. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah but then I won't look like an airline pro.. I'll just be that guy in the Cherokee who's unfamiliar

    jk... I've used the "76V is unfamiliar" before, but it does feel good to also say "yes, 76V is familiar with the Perris Valley jump zone" (for example)
     
  24. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Imagine how close you have to be to read the tail number.
     
  25. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's not the number that matters. It's the differentiation between aircraft calling. Five cezznas calling as cezznas is unmanageable. Five aircraft calling as unique identifiers and you can build a mental picture of positions.
     
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  26. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was taught that as well.
     
  27. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I often hear pro pilots flying FedEx calling approach and telling them it's been a while I have been here, requesting vectors to final. I was going to do that when I went to another towered field, but they offered me vectors before I asked...so it's cool

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  28. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You don't have to be able to read the tail numbers to know that there is more than one Cessna in the pattern when you hear them announcing more than one tail number.
     
  29. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    I'm instrument rated. That said, if I'm not familiar with the environment around a particular airport (or haven't flown instruments in quite a while - reality here) I have no more idea what these intersections or anything else might be. I do know how far out from the airport I am (sort of) and what direction from the airport you need to go to find me (within 20-40 degrees). Speak VFR, please. The life you save may be your own.
     
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  30. nauga

    nauga Pattern Altitude

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    Your confusion is easy to understand - "formation jockey" is nonstandard phraseology and ambiguous. ;)

    Nauga,
    popeye
     
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  31. TheGolfPilot

    TheGolfPilot Line Up and Wait

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    Two days ago going VFR into San Jose the controller asked me to fly to the “pruneyard” my immediate response was “unfamiliar with the area can I get vectors” and he went on some 30 second rant asking if I had a sectional blah blah by the time he was done with his rant I was able to pull my phone out of my pocket, load up foreflight, search for schoolyard, trainyard, realize it was pruneyard, load it into the gtn 750 and able to respond that I found it. When all he had to do was say fly present heading. Everything down there all looks the same. On the east side of San Jose they use Embassy Suites... how the F am I suppose to spot a hotel in the middle of a city?

    I get it. I should be aware of all the waypoints and stuff going into an airport, but a place like San Jose knowing all those places is ridiculous and spotting them is like where’s Waldo when you are a transient.
     
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  32. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

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    Nor a flight plan or an AOA!
     
  33. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Agree the controller should have given you a vector. Trying to prove a point maybe, but I don't see it or understand why the controller was being a prick. I would have just vectored you and be done with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  34. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I actually have an AOA and I was on a flight plan

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  35. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A POA sanctioned AOA?
     
  36. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Um... didn't get it from our friend in Hawaii... but it is an old alpha system. Is it POA sanctioned?

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  37. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    I don't mean to sound smug, and I apologize if this has been said already, but if you're at a pilot controlled field, and you don't know someone's intentions, just ask them to clarify. To me, the beauty of uncontrolled fields is that I get to speak directly to the other pilots. If something ain't clear, holla back, and get it straight.

    "Lindsay Traffic, Cirrus 1234, something something ILS, something something RNAV, will execute something something missed approach"

    "Lindsay Traffic, Skylane 3323Y is left downwind for One Niner, Cirrus on approach, can you repeat that in English"
     
  38. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    OK, listening to 122.7 I heard at least two people report "over the hospital" coming in to Toledo Suburban (DUH). I don't see no hospital on the chart, so I assume they were worried about their landing?
     
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  39. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well at least they're aware of their limits. :D
     
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  40. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I specifically said I don't know what procedure turn is, say intentions. Got the same will do procedure turn reply. Think the cirrus drives skipped the VFR cert

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