Radar App for near by airplanes to maximize saftey?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by aeronav, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. aeronav

    aeronav Pre-Flight

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    Hello,
    I am PP student, I have been looking for an app that have the ability to show near by aircraft position to use as a secondary precaution to VFR to maximize safety, I have only few hours flying and so far i feel that I have no special issues with aircraft control, the only thing that worries me and bothers me are other aircraft specially near the school airport that may pass by, in my few flying hours with the instructor i have seen aircraft that were not too close to us but they were close enough to raised my alarm, on one of my flying lessons I turned almost 60% of my focus and attention away from the lesson and instead was scanning the sky for potential near by aircraft because I was worried, I don't always hear the tower advising us on the radio about near by aircraft when I see them. I might be excessively cautious about this because I am new but seeing some reports and news like this one https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/mid-air-collision-reported-at-t31.100290/ makes me worried.
    Naturally trainer aircraft do not have radars on board, so i was looking for alternative just to maximize safety.
    Thank you.
     
  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Foreflight paired with ADSB is the best you’ll do in that department. There are no stand alone apps that display VFR traffic in such a way other than FF/GP.
     
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  3. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    ADSB in gizmo broadcasting on your iThing
     
  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Don't worry. Be happy. The sky is big and our planes are small.

    Keep looking outside, too. . .the tech is just good enough to kill you.
     
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  5. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Your outside scan is what you need. Your distraction outside is fine. Once you keep your head in the cockpit looking at a device for traffic is when you’re gonna be in trouble. Head down and eyes inside is a bad habit. Just my opinion. ADSB traffic is extremely distracting and I have not grown to like it yet.

    But yes, as the guys above responded. Smart phone or tablet, an EFB app (from free to upward in cost), and ADSB-in hardware (from low cost Stratux on up).
     
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  6. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Look outside forget about the gizmos.
     
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  7. Ravioli

    Ravioli Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    All you need for PPL training is to look outside. Absolutely everything that causes you to move your focus inside the cockpit is potentially deadly,

    Play video games on the ground or when someone else is flying.
     
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  8. aeronav

    aeronav Pre-Flight

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    Thanks for all your valuable inputs.
     
  9. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    Put down the damn phone and look at the world around you.
     
  10. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    Just keep in mind, no matter what gizmo you use, it will not capture all traffic around you, unless you have TCAS system in your aircraft. As others have mentioned, keep your eyes out
     
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  11. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Electronic methods are always a supplement -- and secondary -- to good visual lookout.

    I used to fly a jet with a very powerful air interdiction radar, and my primary method of detecting and avoiding traffic was my eyeballs.

    "Check twelve".
     
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  12. champ driver

    champ driver Line Up and Wait

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    I agree on what others have said, part of your training is multitasking to a certain degree. Always looking for traffic while maneuvering, on cross country's, and in and around the pattern.
    The purpose of on board radar is only for weather avoidance.
    You can't "see" all the traffic on an app or device anyways, some of us are flying around without transponders when we're away from the metro areas.
     
  13. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    FTFY.
    TCAS / ADS-B do not pick up no-transponder aircraft: Gliders, no-electric aircraft (Cubs, Flybaby's, etc.), part 103, etc.
     
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  14. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

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    I’m reminded of the MACA brief at Red Flag and the accompanying video.
     
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  15. MacFlier

    MacFlier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The plane we fly has ADSB in the 430W GPS. When flying local, I use it in the "fish finder" mode that shows the surrounding traffic. However, I use that as a backup to visually scanning for traffic. Usually I scan for traffic, if I don't find any planes, I glance at the 430 just to confirm. If I find something there, I look outside for the target.
    Remember that there are planes flying without transponder mode C or ADBS-out so they'll not show in the system.
     
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  16. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Your eyeballs will works just fine. Hard as it might be for you to understand, we have been flying near other airplanes since before the word "app" became a thing. Yes, before radar and transponders...and at airports without towers, too! Electronic gadgetry has in many ways diminished aviation safety rather than enhanced it.

    "almost 60%" of your focus is not nearly enough....you should be scanning constantly. Gently ask your instructor to back off on the rapid-fire instructions to give you time for scanning,

    Bob
     
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  17. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Even TCAS is nowhere near 100% in terms of accuracy.
     
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  18. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Couple good close calls in here....



    And TCAS didn't help these fine gentlemen, either....



    Radars were no help here, unfortunately...

     
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  19. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Can’t believe what I’m reading. POA recommending eye balls over gizmos??? Where are my usual tech geeks when you need them. :D

    Well, not being one that’s big on whizz- bangitry myself, I will say that I enjoy TCAD and it’s not even close to being a distraction. But, it is in the panel (no head down) and has audio alerts so that helps minimize time inside. Like Hacker said, it’s by no means 100 % accurate.
     
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  20. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    ADS-B, at least initially, is a distraction. When you first turn it on you'll see a screen full of traffic but your mind is not quick enough to determine that none of the targets are of any consequence to you because they are not on an intercepting course. I imagine someday there will be an app that filters it all out and will only display relevant traffic but for now you have to learn how to dismiss most of what you see and do it quickly without staring at the screen trying to figure it all out. As a student you already have enough on your plate and spotting traffic visually is one of the skills that you need to develop so work on that first.
     
  21. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    ADSB and nexrad weather radar and all are good, but they do inherently have some decent sized flaws, like the others said, enjoy the tech but don’t rely on it.

    Also the chance of you getting in a mid air is quite small, you’d do better to do some offfield landing work with a good backcountry CFI and also be well versed in slips, both are much more likely to save your bacon
     
  22. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    On the way to the airport you drove six feet away from hundreds of strangers going the opposite direction without any fear. You probably negotiated intersections and merged with other strangers.
    The only thing keeping you from a nasty wreck was a basic understanding of the rules.

    What radar did you use?
     
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  23. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm sure a post-millenial will be along any moment with an app for that, too.
     
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  24. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Actually the last econobox I rented had some radar tied into the cruise control
     
  25. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    Had a rental Kia last week that had radar warning when I was changing lanes with a car nearby. Drove me nuts every time I wanted to cut someone off.
     
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  26. murphey

    murphey Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Young Eagle rallye this past weekend. When everything was over, I took one of my CS students (he's got a part-time gig at Jeppesen and had never been in a small airplane) for a short flight. By this time, I had packed up the GPS, the iPad, the ADSB, so all I had was the Mark 1 Eyeball, the compass and a paper of our local area we give to new YE pilots.

    Had a wonderful 30 minutes, and no, I don't need all the tech all the time. Was worried about was busting Bravo, because FTG sits below DEN. But I kept below 7000, know the local landmarks and life was fine.
     
  27. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    VFR, eyeballs outside 75% of the time. Read it somewhere, sounds about right. The state of the art in radar, GPS, gizmos is still pretty crude. Mid-airs in cruise flight are very rare - weather or loss of control or fuel exhaustion is more likely to kill you.
     
  28. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    MK1 Eyeball. Lots of good reviews on the App Store. Check it out.
     
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  29. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The internet also has plenty of opinions about how obsolete the eyeball is. I'm actually happily surprised to see people advocating for it here, because on the airline-centric forums it is usually a chorus singing, "GA AIRPLANES SHOULD ALL HAVE TCAS! VISUAL LOOKOUT IS A RELIC OF THE PAST AND DANGEROUS!!"
     
  30. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I love TIS when I fly GA but sometimes it’s just easier and more effective to look outside the window. Same thing with the radar. If it’s clear, my eyeballs do a good job deviating around buildups. If I’m IMC or I want to take a closer look at things, I throw on the radar.
     
  31. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    You seemed quick to discount/downplay the traffic called out by the tower. They have good information for you, they don't need ADSB and they don't even need to be talking to those planes to help you out. In time you will hear those calls...while flying.

    If you are really early into lessons you can rely on your CFI but when you solo and especially solo XC you are going to want to catch all those calls.

    Try a busy pancake breakfast at an uncontrolled airport or a Bravo transition with FF. You'll be glad by then that the basic flying is more or less second nature as your brain shifts towards hearing and then quickly visualizing each call out.