R66 fatal, Georgia, 5/29

I'm waiting for them to IFR certify the 505 before buying one.
 
Seems plausible the death was caused by pilot negligence. Likely even. Why would a lawsuit to hold the operator responsible be useless?
The pilot is already dead. This lawsuit isn’t going to bring back any of the dead people. We all pay for this in increased insurance rates.
 
Seems plausible the death was caused by pilot negligence. Likely even. Why would a lawsuit to hold the operator responsible be useless?
Why the wedding venue? They arranged the charter?

I would of included the FBO that fueled the helicopter.
 
This lawsuit isn’t going to bring back any of the dead people.

No but it means less dead people. Without the threat of lawsuits, operators would be more lax.

We all pay for this in increased insurance rates.

We would even pay more if operators did not have to worry about meeting insurance requirements and remaining insurable.
 
Without the threat of lawsuits, operators would be more lax.
Yes and no. Operators still are lax just as this accident shows and others. But I think what does need to be addressed is excessive tort claims as that is what drives up the cost of things. And the current Chamber of Commerce report predicts that excessive tort cost will add close to $1T by 2030. Having seen the system in action I think a reasonable tort cap will go a long way to see to the needs of the survivors without crippling the rest of society. But that will never happen so long as congress consists of 60+% attorneys by trade.
 
The pilot is already dead. This lawsuit isn’t going to bring back any of the dead people. We all pay for this in increased insurance rates.
This is a truly crazy take. Why on this green earth should the families of the victims sacrifice to protect your insurance rates (if that were even true)? No lawsuit ever brings back dead people. That's not how death or lawsuits work.
 
Yes and no. Operators still are lax just as this accident shows and others. But I think what does need to be addressed is excessive tort claims as that is what drives up the cost of things. And the current Chamber of Commerce report predicts that excessive tort cost will add close to $1T by 2030. Having seen the system in action I think a reasonable tort cap will go a long way to see to the needs of the survivors without crippling the rest of society. But that will never happen so long as congress consists of 60+% attorneys by trade.
The purpose of the tort system is to hold actors accountable for the externalities of their decisions. In the simplest form, to make them accountable for all the costs of the risks they take. There's also a punitive aspect to discourage people from taking risks that society finds unreasonable. If tort damages are limited to the actual harm caused, or worse, capped, you actually encourage risk taking because you shift some (or a lot) of the exposure externally. Economic and game theory tells us this soft in the expected value results in more risky behavior than is called for.

That's the theory, at least.
 
Why the wedding venue? They arranged the charter?
Without seeing the venue contract for the accident event, we don’t know the level of legal exposure for the venue. However the Revere still offers a “helicopter send off” as one of its services associated with weddings. It also prominently features a black Robby in its promotional photos and videos. I suspect that its contract with its selected helicopter operator(s) contains some type of indemnity language but such language may not be ironclad in this type of accident.

The sole purpose of the lawsuit is to determine if the defendants are responsible for the harms alleged by the plaintiffs. The defendants will get their day in court before a jury to make their case that they are not responsible. I suspect a key legal strategy for The Revere will be to shift as much blame as possible toward Prestige. Prestige, in turn, will shift as much responsibility as possible toward the dead pilot.
 
Without seeing the venue contract for the accident event, we don’t know the level of legal exposure for the venue. However the Revere still offers a “helicopter send off” as one of its services associated with weddings. It also prominently features a black Robby in its promotional photos and videos. I suspect that its contract with its selected helicopter operator(s) contains some type of indemnity language but such language may not be ironclad in this type of accident.

The sole purpose of the lawsuit is to determine if the defendants are responsible for the harms alleged by the plaintiffs. The defendants will get their day in court before a jury to make their case that they are not responsible. I suspect a key legal strategy for The Revere will be to shift as much blame as possible toward Prestige. Prestige, in turn, will shift as much responsibility as possible toward the dead pilot.
The charter company will be responsible for the pilot's negligence, so blaming him will likely not be a winning strategy for them.
 
The purpose of the tort system is to hold actors accountable for the externalities of their decisions.
I perfectly understand the reasons behind the tort system, but as I stated, I find issue with the excessive amounts being awarded, ie., putting a cap on those awards and the amounts the attorney can claim. So I think the theory is good, in general, its merely how its managed that is the problem.
 
Appropriate name for a law firm.
I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. They are the same law firm that sued the engine manufacturer on behalf of the victims of a skydiving crash outside Kansas City nearly 30 years ago. They once represented me in a case completely unrelated to aviation. But, in looking to refresh my memory on that case, I see they've made quite the industry out of suing on behalf of light aircraft crash victims, to the point that they now call themselves "the nation's leading aviation law firm". They've turned a case or two into a whole specialty.
 
I perfectly understand the reasons behind the tort system, but as I stated, I find issue with the excessive amounts being awarded, ie., putting a cap on those awards and the amounts the attorney can claim. So I think the theory is good, in general, its merely how its managed that is the problem.
"Losing party pays" would help, as would including the law firm, if they are in a percentage contingency deal. (Full disclosure: I worked software support for two law firms for a couple of decades; I saw the sausage being made. Not pretty.)
 
I perfectly understand the reasons behind the tort system, but as I stated, I find issue with the excessive amounts being awarded, ie., putting a cap on those awards and the amounts the attorney can claim. So I think the theory is good, in general, its merely how its managed that is the problem.
If you think that putting caps on awards is the solution, you either don't understand, or don't agree with, this economic theory of tort law. Perhaps you could argue for capping punitive damages, but caps on economic damages are actually subsidies for risky behavior.
 
"Losing party pays" would help, as would including the law firm, if they are in a percentage contingency deal. (Full disclosure: I worked software support for two law firms for a couple of decades; I saw the sausage being made. Not pretty.)
The lawyers who regularly litigate in "loser pays" jurisdictions believe that the American system would alleviate a lot of their problems.
 
If you think that putting caps on awards is the solution, you either don't understand, or don't agree with, this economic theory of tort law. Perhaps you could argue for capping punitive damages, but caps on economic damages are actually subsidies for risky behavior.
I'd eliminate punitive damages unless there was a matching criminal conviction, and actually cap economic damages, because any number is just a guess anyway.
The lawyers who regularly litigate in "loser pays" jurisdictions believe that the American system would alleviate a lot of their problems.
Of course. They want more money, and no risk.
 
I'd eliminate punitive damages unless there was a matching criminal conviction, and actually cap economic damages, because any number is just a guess anyway.
You can't prosecute dead people, but you can sue their estate.
 
Perhaps you could argue for capping punitive damages, but caps on economic damages are actually subsidies for risky behavior.
Again, key word excessive. And while that economic theory is good on paper, in practice it simply shifts that "risky behavior" to a select group of people at a cost to everyone. Regardless, nobody is stating people shouldn't get reasonable damages and same with the attorneys getting reasonable fees. But when the fox guards the hen house, anything reasonable tends to go out the window.
 
If you think that putting caps on awards is the solution, you either don't understand, or don't agree with, this economic theory of tort law. Perhaps you could argue for capping punitive damages, but caps on economic damages are actually subsidies for risky behavior.
Conversely, excessive awards for BS claims end up being a tax on everyone. Look to class actions where the "harmed consumer" gets a $1 gift certificate and the attorneys litigating on behalf of the class get 30% of the award. That can me 10s or 100s of millions. The "harm" in many of these cases is both weak and unnoticed by the harmed party.

Also see cases like the "hot coffee" lap burn against McDonalds.
 
Meaning someone should not expect hot coffee to be hot?
 
Actually, specific to the thread topic, let's say they sue the snot out of everyone involved. Duplicate the scenario a year after with all the actors having a similar mindset to the ones that operated the flight. Are they going to say, let's not go, we might get sued? Lawsuits don't fix stupid and this case reeks of stupid.
 
The one big elephant in the room: a lot of times the sued party settles because it's cheaper than fighting it and winning.

This only encourages the ambulance chasers to sue everybody.

We NEED "loser pays all legal costs" legislation.
 
The only two things I'm sure about with lawsuits is that in most cases it means someone's done something wrong - could be either side, and that when a suit involves a large corporation, the large corporation often just wins because they have the time and money.

For the latter, what comes to my mind isn't on the consumer side, but when a big company, maybe starts with M and is based on the top left of the country, starts using technology that sure looks a lot like what a much smaller company developed and patented, but they're not paying any royalties. By the time the small company gets to court, after all the delays, they've already really lost. And this, like the coffee mcdonald's case, I think could be prevented by going the other way in terms of punitive damages. The 8th amendment, banning cruel and unusual punishments, shouldn't apply to large corporations.

Fun decisions should be encouraged and protected. The coffee thing? Figure out what the annual gross revenue for them for coffee was in the past year, and have them donate that amount to national burn centers for the next 20 years. That might adjust some attitudes, and it wouldn't affect anyone's insurance premium. The software company that sortof didn't invent something? Hand the desktop OS portion of their company to the smaller competitor. There are no self-evident rights associated with imaginary constructs.
 
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Actually, specific to the thread topic, let's say they sue the snot out of everyone involved. Duplicate the scenario a year after with all the actors having a similar mindset to the ones that operated the flight. Are they going to say, let's not go, we might get sued? Lawsuits don't fix stupid and this case reeks of stupid.
This is where training and mgt support come in. The pilots should absolutely know their employer's and the FAA's rules and know that their owners/managers DEMAND the pilots follow those rules or they will be immediately fired. There is no "just this one time" or "this is a good friend/big client" exemption.
 
The coffee thing? Figure out what the annual gross revenue for them for coffee was in the past year, and have them donate that amount to national burn centers for the next 20 years.
No. Hot coffee is hot. You shouldn't get sued for selling hot coffee. Maybe you get sued because the top wasn't attached properly or the cup was overfilled and the unsuspecting buyer got scalded, but the coffee thing comes up because everyone knows it was ridiculous.
 
No. Hot coffee is hot. You shouldn't get sued for selling hot coffee. Maybe you get sued because the top wasn't attached properly or the cup was overfilled and the unsuspecting buyer got scalded, but the coffee thing comes up because everyone knows it was ridiculous.
Mcds was keeping the coffee almost 40 degrees hotter than typical home brewed or what competitors used. They knew it was hot enough for 3rd degree burns and had almost 700 prior reports. The lady suffered 3rd degree burns over 15 percent of her body requiring 8 days in the hospital and multiple skin grafts. She originally sued just to cover medical expenses but they declined.

MCDs has PR'd it into hurrdurr coffees hot over the decades but the lawsuit was pretty fair.
 
Ok, let's go with that thought experiment on the OT. Who loses this lawsuit?
My wild guess:

Pilot's estate will probably lose (and probably doesn't have enough money to satisfy them).
Operator might win, unless there's clear evidence they pressured the pilot to fly.
Wedding venue will win, unless pressure exerted on the pilot.
Robinson will win.
Anyone else named in the lawsuit will probably win.

Anyone being confident they'll win will probably try to have their part go on a separate trial.

A lot of legal costs for the suers to pay to the entities that will fight them, knowng they'll recoup their costs. Would probably deter them from suing anyone else than the pilot and operator.
 
My wild guess:

Pilot's estate will probably lose (and probably doesn't have enough money to satisfy them).
Operator might win, unless there's clear evidence they pressured the pilot to fly.
Wedding venue will win, unless pressure exerted on the pilot.
Robinson will win.
Anyone else named in the lawsuit will probably win.

Anyone being confident they'll win will probably try to have their part go on a separate trial.

A lot of legal costs for the suers to pay to the entities that will fight them, knowng they'll recoup their costs. Would probably deter them from suing anyone else than the pilot and operator.

Cheaper for all insurance companies to pay go away money. Doubt any will go to trial or if they do end up in a jury verdict.
 
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