People don't believe there are people as stupid as you.
People don't believe there are people as stupid as you.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
I put him on ignore about 5 pages back but saw his last idiot-savant response on a quote. He may finally be right about something insofar as the "flying circles" comment is concerned. That's what most people do when they're lost.
Aztec Driver
Line Up and Wait
Wow. Just wow.
Who is it that you think you are typing your drivel to?
This board is home to pilots ranging from students on up to multi thousand hour ATP's and high time military pilots. Do you really think that your "knowledge" is far superior to those of us that have significantly more experience than you do?
While I no longer use the paper charts to flight plan, I know how to do it, and it has taught me how the electronic equipment does it and it also shows me the weaknesses that these devices exhibit. Those devices don't do well with the aircraft performance,except with the most basic elements. And while I use the IPAD and IPhone for most of my flying, I carry, and actually am required to carry, current charts for the flying that I have to accomplish. Commercial flying still requires you to have the backups on board, even if you do not use them.
You may have learned some things, but you need to dial back the attitude. That is the biggest obstacle you are facing currently. You came on this board with a seething attack against the DPE, and you are oblivious to the fact that it was your attitude that caused the entire problem, not the "DPE failed me for no reason." Even when confronted by folks with much more experience than yourself, you attempt to deflect any personal responsibility for your failure. Yes, some answers were a little harsh, but life is not easy, and neither is aviation. If you back off on the attitude a little, you would glean the lesson from the experienced people without all of the attacks.
Ask questions about why some things are taught, instead of complaining that "all of this is from the stone age."
Go into the DPE's interview with a "what can I learn from this checkride that will keep me safe?"
Be respectful of those older and wiser than yourself.
Admit that you can learn even from those people who you don't care for.
Admit that there are those people with a lot more knowledge and experience than yourself and deal with it.
Did your parents try to kick you out of the house "while you still knew everything?"
AcroGimp
Cleared for Takeoff
The real failure this thread is highlighting may be with the CFI.
It's not that the OP doesn't know anything, it's just that so much of what he knows is wrong.
So much is wrong in fact, rather than seeking a refund from the DPE the OP should seek a refund from the CFI, he apparently hasn't taught him what he needs to know and DPE shopping won't fix that (not to mention that IS expensive, also not to mention those guys all know each other and the word gets around).
Flying is so much more than being able to safely putt around the pattern, it is a deeply intellectual pursuit to learn weather, airspace, and the complex operating rules of the NAS. Muscle memory is only a small part of the big picture that is being a safe pilot. A larger and far more imortant part is judgment and decision making, and it seems this is where the problem appears to lie.
As someone who had to jump through multiple extra hoops just to be able to TRY and EARN this amazing privilege, the level of arrogance and hostility on display from the OP is frankly very off putting.
We already have our licenses and hundreds if not thousands of hours and years/decades of experience.
We already succeeded where you have already failed.
We have something to teach, you have something to learn, IF you are able.
I hope the OP hears what is being offered and learns from it, or stops trying because we are as pilots, in many ways, an endangered species and every bad apple in the bunch puts us that much closer to MORE regulation, MORE restrictions, and ultimately LESS FREEDOM. Neary every regulation enacted since CAR 3 is a reaction to a bad decision taken by a pilot, a mechanic, or a designer - bad decisions that led to poperty loss, injury or death.
Just earlier this week we finally rid ourselves of a pilot-menace who had been directly/indirectly linked to multiple deaths - a guy who scammed and conned his way around the world, who thought the rules didn't apply to him, who thought he knew better then everyone else (including FAA) and who used threats and bravado to earn and retain his flying privileges on many occasions - similarly, whenever he lost those privileges he refused to take any responisbility for it himself and tried to push it off on others.
It took far longer than many thought, but Kharma is a bloodhound and she WILL eventually find you. The tragedy is that when David Riggs finally met the violent and tragic end most of us knew he would, he took yet another innocent person with him. They just recovered his remains from the bottom of the lake in China that he crashed in last week.
Aviation is not a place for brash, overconfident and immature personalities - flying is far too intolerant of carelessness and when you have six degreees of freedom things can go bad quickly. Quick reactions can save you some of the time, but good judgment and decision making will prevent the need to do so far more effectively.
CFI's are the first line of defense, the Examiners (AME/DPE) and the AeroMed Office in OKC are the second, and we ourselves are the third. Some people just shouldn't be pilots, the guy who hasn't solo'd after 50-60 hrs of instruction, the guy who is intractable and can't learn, the guy who is afraid of the plane or flying slow.
Several people have posted up the warning signs we learn about in the Fundamentals of Instruction, maybe the OP's CFI needs a refresher.
'Gimp
It's not that the OP doesn't know anything, it's just that so much of what he knows is wrong.
So much is wrong in fact, rather than seeking a refund from the DPE the OP should seek a refund from the CFI, he apparently hasn't taught him what he needs to know and DPE shopping won't fix that (not to mention that IS expensive, also not to mention those guys all know each other and the word gets around).
Flying is so much more than being able to safely putt around the pattern, it is a deeply intellectual pursuit to learn weather, airspace, and the complex operating rules of the NAS. Muscle memory is only a small part of the big picture that is being a safe pilot. A larger and far more imortant part is judgment and decision making, and it seems this is where the problem appears to lie.
As someone who had to jump through multiple extra hoops just to be able to TRY and EARN this amazing privilege, the level of arrogance and hostility on display from the OP is frankly very off putting.
We already have our licenses and hundreds if not thousands of hours and years/decades of experience.
We already succeeded where you have already failed.
We have something to teach, you have something to learn, IF you are able.
I hope the OP hears what is being offered and learns from it, or stops trying because we are as pilots, in many ways, an endangered species and every bad apple in the bunch puts us that much closer to MORE regulation, MORE restrictions, and ultimately LESS FREEDOM. Neary every regulation enacted since CAR 3 is a reaction to a bad decision taken by a pilot, a mechanic, or a designer - bad decisions that led to poperty loss, injury or death.
Just earlier this week we finally rid ourselves of a pilot-menace who had been directly/indirectly linked to multiple deaths - a guy who scammed and conned his way around the world, who thought the rules didn't apply to him, who thought he knew better then everyone else (including FAA) and who used threats and bravado to earn and retain his flying privileges on many occasions - similarly, whenever he lost those privileges he refused to take any responisbility for it himself and tried to push it off on others.
It took far longer than many thought, but Kharma is a bloodhound and she WILL eventually find you. The tragedy is that when David Riggs finally met the violent and tragic end most of us knew he would, he took yet another innocent person with him. They just recovered his remains from the bottom of the lake in China that he crashed in last week.
Aviation is not a place for brash, overconfident and immature personalities - flying is far too intolerant of carelessness and when you have six degreees of freedom things can go bad quickly. Quick reactions can save you some of the time, but good judgment and decision making will prevent the need to do so far more effectively.
CFI's are the first line of defense, the Examiners (AME/DPE) and the AeroMed Office in OKC are the second, and we ourselves are the third. Some people just shouldn't be pilots, the guy who hasn't solo'd after 50-60 hrs of instruction, the guy who is intractable and can't learn, the guy who is afraid of the plane or flying slow.
Several people have posted up the warning signs we learn about in the Fundamentals of Instruction, maybe the OP's CFI needs a refresher.
'Gimp
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Pete: I count, in the logbooks of the posters here, about 500,000 hours of logbook time. You have, maybe, 50?.
I guess those of us who have flown the whole planet can't tell you a thing. We've navigated the Pacific after bus problems- with an astrolabe and a watch. If you don't dial back your attitude and adopt a "student- I need to learn" stance, you will get flattened. And likely damage the name of "aviation" for us all.
Acrogimp may be correct about the CFI, but he can't fix attitude. Many years ago I defended an E2 who came on just like you- his hands were magic with sheet metal....until my master chief asked me to stop. He was gone in about 30 days.
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redtail
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Redtail
GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
If only swearing were acceptable on public forums...
redtail
En-Route
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Redtail
As my "Old" electrical shop teacher used to say, "I may not always be right, but I'm NEVER wrong!!!"
.I miss that old fart
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kgruber
Final Approach
I put partial blame on Pete's AME, who failed to diagnose his illusory superiority and overplacement.
""""The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.""""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
""""The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.""""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
wabower
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Wayne
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I just canceled my cable!!!
MAKG1
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MAKG
No, that's a mistake, but it's not the HUGE one.
You're still missing the point. You're far too immature to handle an aircraft safely. Hang up the wings until you can figure out how little you really know, or you're going to fail again. If you manage to find an incompetent examiner that somehow passes you despite your obvious incapacity, you'll just learn the lesson the hard way.
You dismiss details like they don't matter. Flying is not very tolerant of that.
I have to wonder why it is you want to fly. You don't seem to like it much.
We've all been teenagers. That's why we KNOW you're out to lunch. You're worse than most in that regard. That eventually gets better. If you happen to be older than that, there is a lot less hope.
The world is overpopulated, let him fly.
That would be fine if we didn't having politicians saying "The world is underregulated.."
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's a waste of a perfectly good airplane.
OP - just for fun, I'll pretend you are serious. Yeah, you f-d up and failed a checkride right out of the gate. You aren't the first, you won't be the last.
You want to pass your next one? Then quit whining and blaming the DPE. He did you a favor, and taught you a lesson that your CFI didn't, wouldn't, or couldn't. It cost you some money, so now you have skin in the game. That DPE forgets more about flying when he sneezes than you will ever learn in your life. You had a chance to learn from a pro and threw it away. On this board you've had plenty of opportunities to learn from pros and you've managed to throw that away, too.
You haven't earned the privilege yet of passing a checkride. You need to pay your dues. This is not a flight sim, it's real. Treat it that way. Maybe you'll never pass, and you are certainly on that road right now, but you are the only one that can change that.
JB1842
En-Route
The problem is he is probably one of those people who will fill a plane over gross to take his friends up to show off his piloting skills, then kill them all while doing it. Best if he keeps failing his check ride.
YOU have just licked the red off of my candy...I have been spouting the mantra for several years that the "new" inferiority complex is a superiority complex. That was an eye opening read...
The young man who is the OP simply don't know...and he don't know he don't know...thats a very treachorous place to be with the yoke of a plane under your control.
Mr. OP...I have met many of the folks here on this and other boards...we are actually a community...we have shared triumphs and tragedies in each other lives, we have shared knowledge and failures and I will be bold enough to speak for everyone here;
"We want you to succeed."
We do however seem unanimous in our resolve that you have a mindset issue...that alone should speak to that part of your gut that tells you that something is wrong with the picture you are looking at. At some point in your future, you will have that feeling in the cockpit...trying to blame someone else at that point and you will most likely not be happy wth the outcome.
This DPE is someone I would LOVE to fly a checkride with because I would walk away with a new rating and a some tidbits of knowledge and understanding that would be worth their weight in gold. I wouldn't need to record it because it would be seared in my brain....
I am imagining sitting as a fly on the wall and watching the DPE shred this young man...one question and one point at a time..."for the record"
Has anyone mentoned the possibility of the effect of the "Youtube mentality" in this oral examination.
You have a obstinate student wanting to record a DPE who is not used to that frame of mind. The DPE gives the kid what he is after...an "oral examination"...not the "conversation" I had with the DPE who did both of my rides...he quizzed me from top to botom in a three hour conversation that covered everything from shiiite to shinola...taught me a few things...that I will never forget.
The youtube effect seems to be such that everyone is a rock star..I know I have been caught up in it...
I am rambling...I am going to go pull the plane out and fly.
The young man who is the OP simply don't know...and he don't know he don't know...thats a very treachorous place to be with the yoke of a plane under your control.
Mr. OP...I have met many of the folks here on this and other boards...we are actually a community...we have shared triumphs and tragedies in each other lives, we have shared knowledge and failures and I will be bold enough to speak for everyone here;
"We want you to succeed."
We do however seem unanimous in our resolve that you have a mindset issue...that alone should speak to that part of your gut that tells you that something is wrong with the picture you are looking at. At some point in your future, you will have that feeling in the cockpit...trying to blame someone else at that point and you will most likely not be happy wth the outcome.
This DPE is someone I would LOVE to fly a checkride with because I would walk away with a new rating and a some tidbits of knowledge and understanding that would be worth their weight in gold. I wouldn't need to record it because it would be seared in my brain....
I am imagining sitting as a fly on the wall and watching the DPE shred this young man...one question and one point at a time..."for the record"
Has anyone mentoned the possibility of the effect of the "Youtube mentality" in this oral examination.
You have a obstinate student wanting to record a DPE who is not used to that frame of mind. The DPE gives the kid what he is after...an "oral examination"...not the "conversation" I had with the DPE who did both of my rides...he quizzed me from top to botom in a three hour conversation that covered everything from shiiite to shinola...taught me a few things...that I will never forget.
The youtube effect seems to be such that everyone is a rock star..I know I have been caught up in it...
I am rambling...I am going to go pull the plane out and fly.
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That's fine, his friends are likely as stupid as he, "birds of a feather" and all that.
JB1842
En-Route
Good point, but we don't need these types of people giving the responsible pilots bad name.
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Planes crash on a regular basis with no great effect, even high profile wrecks like Cory Liddle had no real consequence. We pretty much reached a regulatory equilibrium in the outfall of the day the music died.
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
I am trying hard to comprehend how the OP can so unaware of the situation. To the OP: You need to take a big step back and re-evaluate what you are trying to do and where you rank in the aviation world. If you continue with this sort of attitude, your 15 minutes of fame will be in an NTSB report.
I am a low-time PPL with just over 100 hours. I know a fraction of what some of the guys on here know. I learned a lot from my DPE... he's nearly twice my age and has likely forgotten more than I will ever know. I may not have too many more hours than you do, but I do have my certificate and know very well that "that retarded 1940s crap" is useful stuff developed over many years.
Please stay on the ground.
I am a low-time PPL with just over 100 hours. I know a fraction of what some of the guys on here know. I learned a lot from my DPE... he's nearly twice my age and has likely forgotten more than I will ever know. I may not have too many more hours than you do, but I do have my certificate and know very well that "that retarded 1940s crap" is useful stuff developed over many years.
Please stay on the ground.
ajstoner21
Cleared for Takeoff
Wow. This thread got huge quick. Took me forever to read it all.
I am a little shocked about the attitude towards everything.
I would refuse to teach a student with an attitude like this.
It doesn't matter how well you fly when everything is working, its how you fly when everything turns south. Let us know how you do when you have an engine failure/problem and your precious iPad or "direct to" Button doesnt work.
I am a little shocked about the attitude towards everything.
I would refuse to teach a student with an attitude like this.
It doesn't matter how well you fly when everything is working, its how you fly when everything turns south. Let us know how you do when you have an engine failure/problem and your precious iPad or "direct to" Button doesnt work.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Pete, sweetie, honey, baby, darling....
Have you heard and understand the phrase "the PPL is a license to learn". You haven't.
Feel free to fly only with your iPad for planning and navigation. Please register all your flights on flightaware.com. That way you can enjoy yourself without the needless bother of watching out for the rest of us. We will happily stay out of your way.
There's a reason iPad and all handheld GPS systems are "not for navigation, for situational use only":
a. They haven't been tested for unintended consequences with other electrical systems in the aircraft.
b. They can't be trusted not to screw up.
c. The databases aren't guaranteed to be accurate.
Those of us who have them can attest to the screwups. In fact if you've been hanging around here for any length of time - say a month - there's at least 2 threads relating to iPad problems.
The iPad is a consumer device and was never intended, nor will it ever be, anything other than a consumer device. Handy, useful only because Hilton and others have made it incredibly useful for aviation, but still, it aint legal.
GPS can be spoofed. GPS can be degraded any time the DOD wishes it. GPS can fail with sun flares.
As a software engineer I've worked on FMS (Flight management systems) for NASA and ATC for the FAA. Do the astronauts depend on GPS? Sure. Even on moon missions the GPS constellation is usable. But guess what? GPS aint the only navigation system they use. And they did manage to get to the moon without it many times.
They also carry paper. Real, honest-to-goodness paper. Why? In the event of an electrical failure, paper is always there. Paper for checklists. Paper for navigation sightings (go thatway until this star is over here and that star is over there and then turn thisaway until that third star lines up at that mark on the window and so it goes).
And I'll bet my airplane and the contents of the hangar that the DPE you flew with is not only familiar but probably proficient with the iPad or other tablet with aviation software.
But thank you for playing. Pick up your consolation prize at the door.
Have you heard and understand the phrase "the PPL is a license to learn". You haven't.
Feel free to fly only with your iPad for planning and navigation. Please register all your flights on flightaware.com. That way you can enjoy yourself without the needless bother of watching out for the rest of us. We will happily stay out of your way.
There's a reason iPad and all handheld GPS systems are "not for navigation, for situational use only":
a. They haven't been tested for unintended consequences with other electrical systems in the aircraft.
b. They can't be trusted not to screw up.
c. The databases aren't guaranteed to be accurate.
Those of us who have them can attest to the screwups. In fact if you've been hanging around here for any length of time - say a month - there's at least 2 threads relating to iPad problems.
The iPad is a consumer device and was never intended, nor will it ever be, anything other than a consumer device. Handy, useful only because Hilton and others have made it incredibly useful for aviation, but still, it aint legal.
GPS can be spoofed. GPS can be degraded any time the DOD wishes it. GPS can fail with sun flares.
As a software engineer I've worked on FMS (Flight management systems) for NASA and ATC for the FAA. Do the astronauts depend on GPS? Sure. Even on moon missions the GPS constellation is usable. But guess what? GPS aint the only navigation system they use. And they did manage to get to the moon without it many times.
They also carry paper. Real, honest-to-goodness paper. Why? In the event of an electrical failure, paper is always there. Paper for checklists. Paper for navigation sightings (go thatway until this star is over here and that star is over there and then turn thisaway until that third star lines up at that mark on the window and so it goes).
And I'll bet my airplane and the contents of the hangar that the DPE you flew with is not only familiar but probably proficient with the iPad or other tablet with aviation software.
But thank you for playing. Pick up your consolation prize at the door.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Evolution in action.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
You can't fix stupid.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sure you can! I took my dog to the vet, and got Stupid fixed.
[sorry, just couldn't resist]
P
pflemming
Guest
I feel like Bruce Lee in one of those old movies. Countless waves of lesser mortals coming at me, and I deftly dispatch them one by one.
Calling me stupid, etc, really very childish. I have an advanced college degree. Yes, shock and horror.
I am actually reasonable. Most of you have made good points. I hear what you're saying and filing it away. Some of it in useful places, and some of it in "who gives a flying f-k". Don't be offended if I don't listen to everything you have to say.
Now back to my "event". You were not there. I know my stuff. My CFI agrees that he was overly harsh on me but blames that on my bonehead "record the session" move. Yes, contrary to what many of you are saying, I know and admit my mess up.
As for the comment about all the friggin' aviation geniuses reading this forum... They're not doing that BS inkpot and papyrus flight planning my idiot DPE kept pressing me on. I showed him a perfect flight plan in foreflight the way MOST OF YOU do it, or one of the other websites like fltplan.com. Stop lying when you defend that paper crap. It is indefensible.
Murphy, thanks for your comments. I promise not to scare you if I fly in your airspace, honey cakes.
Wayne... You've got me on ignore yet you're posting in this thread. Yeah, right. Being old and childish must be interesting. At least I've got youth as my excuse.
The saga will continue. I will pass my checkride next week. I guarantee it. I succeed at everything I do. Sometimes I hit a speedbump or some idiot in my way, but it is a temporary setback.
Calling me stupid, etc, really very childish. I have an advanced college degree. Yes, shock and horror.
I am actually reasonable. Most of you have made good points. I hear what you're saying and filing it away. Some of it in useful places, and some of it in "who gives a flying f-k". Don't be offended if I don't listen to everything you have to say.
Now back to my "event". You were not there. I know my stuff. My CFI agrees that he was overly harsh on me but blames that on my bonehead "record the session" move. Yes, contrary to what many of you are saying, I know and admit my mess up.
As for the comment about all the friggin' aviation geniuses reading this forum... They're not doing that BS inkpot and papyrus flight planning my idiot DPE kept pressing me on. I showed him a perfect flight plan in foreflight the way MOST OF YOU do it, or one of the other websites like fltplan.com. Stop lying when you defend that paper crap. It is indefensible.
Murphy, thanks for your comments. I promise not to scare you if I fly in your airspace, honey cakes.
Wayne... You've got me on ignore yet you're posting in this thread. Yeah, right. Being old and childish must be interesting. At least I've got youth as my excuse.
The saga will continue. I will pass my checkride next week. I guarantee it. I succeed at everything I do. Sometimes I hit a speedbump or some idiot in my way, but it is a temporary setback.
ajstoner21
Cleared for Takeoff
How old are you? What is your degree in?
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
It'll be interesting and tragic when we read about your first failure in an NTSB report. Hopefully it will be a solo flight over uninhabited terrain in an airplane you fully own.
What is your degree in and how old are you?
P
pflemming
Guest
Not that I have any duty to have to defend myself to you, but for the sake of trying to bring this thread back down to sane level I'm in my late 20s. EE.
Who are you? What is YOUR degree in? Please don't tell me you're in flying for a living. Only an idiot who loves being poor would do that. Go get a real job.
P
pflemming
Guest
You too, how old are you? What do YOU do? Let's start pulling apart your life as well publicly. That is what we do on this website apparently.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Wow, keep digging a hole there buddy. Let me know how China is, because you're more than halfway
ajstoner21
Cleared for Takeoff
Ah there it is, the personal attack. I was feeling left out.
txflyer
En-Route
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
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pflemming
Guest
Well join the club. Doesn't feel so good does it?
Can someone please lock this thread, it has served its purpose. Congratulations everyone! Hope you all enjoyed this.
Count me as unimpressed.
I said and will repeat:
You don't know and you don't know you don't know.
its got nothing to do with people agreeing or disagreeing with your stance on paper. It's that people are unwilling to believe that someone could be as much of an ass as you've come across without it being an act.
Regarding your iPhone as backup, that doesn't do you any good when GPS gets taken out by the powers that be. I'm sure you believe that never happens (you knowing everything, and all) though I've seen it happen twice in the past (roughly) 12 months.
One day in the future, you will think back to this thread and realize what a total schmuck you've been in it. When that day comes, you will be ready for the attitude portion of your checkride.
P
pflemming
Guest
Thought you had me on ignore? Who's the stupid one now?