Private checkride went horribly wrong!

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by pflemming, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    DPEs are people, too. They read first impressions. Sounds like he figured you weren't prepared and he just needed enough from you to verify. Now you have some incentive to do it right.

    Lighten up on the 'papyrus' attitude. If you can't show you know how to do flight planning the old fashioned way, then you don't know it.
     
  2. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Ok, I'll take you at face value, everything I said before still stands though. You didn't get taken to the cleaners, you had your ass handed to you and you paid for the lesson in aviation. Learn from the lesson and pay attention to detail. Your iPad forgot to give you a detail you could have found in the POH with a bit of effort. The problem was, you didn't recognize the error, and rather than say "Oh, you're right" you went on to deride tried and true methodology because you were too lazy to do it correctly the way you were expected to. On my PP-XC planning I wasn't going to be at my cruise altitude at my first check point either, it contained the altitude I would expect to be at at that point calculated from the performance data in the POH. You accepted a data set from your iPad without questioning it and used it. A couple of years back a couple of time building students from All ATPs IIRC blindly accepted an altitude from ATC one night heading into San Diego, their lives ended not much later on the side of a mountain. Had they looked at their ancient papyrus scroll to confirm they had been given good data, this would not have happened. Safety requires first and foremost the correct attitude and thought processes, you did not appear to exhibit them to the DE. You complain he was harsh on you, let me clue you in, aviation is a harsh mistress and second chances are not always issued. You still have a second chance. I'd be extremely interested in seeing the video and hearing what questions he asked and your responses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  3. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Problem is Pete you weren't really looking for advice. Nothing the DPE did was wrong. Your comments about him were personal attacks. Can you really cite anything he did that was biased?

    As far as kicking someone when they're down? Get over it. I failed my first ride as well. The situation was planning as well (exceeded 30 mins) and he failed me accordingly. I will say the FAA personally interviewed me later because they were investigating his extremely high failure rate. But whatever, pick yourself up and go at it again.

    What I find amazing is that your CFI didn't prepare you to do this flight on paper. Perhaps that's something you should take up with him.
     
  4. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You were looking for advice.

    Here is some advice:

    - show up to your next checkride with a current sectional, a plotter, an E6B and and a couple of pencils and know how to use them. Have your ipad ready, after you have shown your paper flight plan, the examiner may allow you to use the EFB once you are up in the air.

    - check your ****-poor attitude at the door before you show up for the checkride.

    - know your stuff.

    - be humble.

    - dont try to record your checkride. That is just dumb.

    You'll be fine and pass your checkride sooner or later. Nothing wrong with being cocky and rude, you'll fit right in in a particular corner of the pilot population.
     
  5. warthog1984

    warthog1984 Cleared for Takeoff

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    If not a troll: He failed ADM, hard. He failed the preflight prep. He failed knowledge of the NAS.
     
  6. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I thought you might want to humiliate yourself for the education so you pass next time. Humiliation is a cheap price to pay for a lesson in aviation, too many people pay with a lot more.
     
  7. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe this check ride went horribly right?
     
    SixPapaCharlie likes this.
  8. thezoolityre

    thezoolityre Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You weren't ready to fly, and apparently never will be. God, what is wrong with you. I make my students plan every XC on a piece of paper AND I let them use the Garmin 430 in our aircraft. I know the ins and out of both, and I knew them before I became a CFI.

    There is a big difference between embracing technology and being dependent on it. I mean, you couldn't even figure out the correct altitude en-route? You had 50% chance even if you didn't know it! And to me that sounds like dependency. What happens if you ipad craps out? (yes it HAS happened to one of my students while I was with him in IFR) Now what? You didn't do any planning, you didn't even care about the AIM approved VFR en-route altitude, and I highly doubt you would have even known you Course Heading(if you even know what that is).

    Just because a little piece of (as amazing as it is) technology can help you get from A to B, doesn't mean it always will, and it can and will fail on you... Hell, isn't an airplane a little piece of technology that get you from A to B? And you (should) have practice on how to stay safe when it does, but what about when you iPad craps out? The FAA is looking to know that you know how to safely get to B if it does.

    You have got a big head on you kid, and apparently its filled with egotistical hot gas and not a brain that focuses primarily on respect and safety... Which is what the FAA and the FAA's DPE look for.
     
  9. thezoolityre

    thezoolityre Pre-takeoff checklist

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    :yes::yes::yes:
     
  10. MikeELP

    MikeELP Pattern Altitude

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    Why NOT post it?

    Failing is often a part of life, and most certainly a part of taking FAA Checkrides.

    It may help others learn from your mistakes..."passing it forward", if you will.

    I didn't have a camera in the airplane when I took my first IA check (back then we still read newspapers and the iPad wasn't even Steve Job's wet dream), but I wish I'd had, so I could show it to my students and say "Here's what can happen when you have a total unexplainable brain fart". You bust. No shame...just a great learning experience that you can share with others.

    Mike
     
  11. AcroGimp

    AcroGimp Cleared for Takeoff

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    For the OP (Pete),

    What is the back-up to the nav data on your iPad? Are you required to have any back-up?

    Others have touched, accurately, on attitude - if you are not humble and respectful, AND you then demonstrate a lack of any of the required skills and knowledge, you should not expect to pass any checkride - the DPE is putting their credentials on the line, it is their responsibility to ensure you can meet the minimum acceptable standard. This protects the uninvolved public, him/herself, the rest of us who make up the pilot population, but also you.

    Keep in mind as well, if you feel like a checkride is getting away from you or going downhill, you can always suspend it yourself to prevent actually busting the ride - for any reason including real or perceived personality conflict. You will, of course, lose your fee if you change examiners, but that would be a small price to pay compared to the alternative.

    FWIW, within the aviation safety community we are seeing real issues trending with respect to over-reliance on technology, you really do need to know how to do it the old-fashioned way because that is where basic elements like on-course heading, cruise altitudes, etc., are developed.

    Best of luck - take what has been offered here as free but high-value instruction from those of us who have been there.

    'Gimp
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  12. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm not buying the Pete handle either, more likely little Johnny from the jokes we thought were funny in grade school.

     
  13. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    I passed my oral easily. I did have the rare opportunity to 'teach' my DPE something though. When I mentioned something about me making an entry in my airplanes logbook he immediately piped up and said, "Pilots can't make entries in the aircraft logbooks!!!" To which I replied, "Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you...give me a couple minutes to locate the relevant FAR's...". I knew he was wrong but wasn't a dick about it. He admitted he never owned a plane and basically apologized.

    If I would have wanted to record my oral for my own use I would have done it discretely - so many gadgets out there that will record tucked away in your bag with no one the wiser. Total dope move asking to record it...and even worse if you actually insisted after he said no. You were done at that point - you just didn't know it.

    You don't have to make 100% on the oral to pass it - but in your case he turned the heat up and made sure that wasn't going to happen. Honestly, he knew in the first 2 minutes if you were going to pass or not. My Chief CFI used to be a DPE. She said she always knew within the first few minutes how it was going to end.

    Live and learn. In your case...a lot more learnin....
     
  14. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Welcome,are you sure you where ready for the test,it's always easy to say the dpe didn't like me from the start,if you where truly ready he couldn't have found a weakness to fail you.have you taken any responsibility for the failure.The harder the test the better the pilot within reason.
     
  15. ChrisK

    ChrisK En-Route

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    Dude. He called you sweetie.
     
  16. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Lol, not dude...
     
  17. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    proably not the best idea with that statement. DPE's never want to see a cocky pilot. they want to see a CONFIDENT pilot. there is a big difference
     
  18. GCA319

    GCA319 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Wow, where am I supposed to start with this one? You sound like a student I once had-the one and only student I told to go take a hike. Do us all and yourself a favor and find a new hobby before someone gives you a license to go be an idiot and kill yourself. You sound like one of those know it alls, and guess what? Those types make the absolute worst pilots. You sound like you're resistant to learning, which is a very, very dangerous trait to have in this business. I may sound harsh, and I am. This is a serious business that can kill you.
     
  19. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You must be old. :) [I know -- pot, kettle, black]

    "Dude" is far less gender specific than it used to be.
     
  20. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No longer old, now decrepit lol. I'm from the age of Dudette.
     
  21. mchesney

    mchesney Pre-Flight

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    Pete,
    You need to look at this as a lesson. You made a lot of mistakes... Some you have acknowledged and some that are not so apparent to you but plainly obvious to the group here. What you should be thinking is "hey, they may be right". I'm sure you've picked up on the theme that there's a concern with your attitude and your failure to recognize the importance of knowing how to flight plan a cross country. Take this info and use it. Find out why there's such a consensus on these issues. If you don't understand... Ask people. This whole thread would have a completely different tone had you came here asking questions about the things you failed on and projecting an attitude of humility. Aviation is a privilege and an enormous responsibility.... You need to respect that.
     
  22. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It's not even so much knowing how to cross country flight plan, rather showing he knows how to pay attention to detail. "The Devil is in the detail" as they say.
     
  23. ChrisK

    ChrisK En-Route

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    I'm 40 and hilarious.
     
  24. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's even more than that. It's about actually exercising your brain for the purpose of learning and understanding what you're doing.

    When you plan a flight the "old-fashioned" way using a whiz wheel and the "papyrus" charts that "Pete" hates so much, the brain actually gets a sense of the forces involved in flight because of the visual and spatial aspects of doing it that way. You don't get the same neuro learning benefits by tapping away at a flipping iPad.

    I'm no longer sure whether "Pete" is a troll. But if he isn't, then I'm persuaded that he's a snot-nosed, teen-aged punk who doesn't know ****, but thinks he knows everything. His iPad is his peripheral brain: Take it away, and he wouldn't be able to navigate his hand to wipe his own ass.

    I'd also wager that Pete believes his only mistake was being "honest" with his old-fart DPE. He doesn't even know enough to realize that anyone who believes that knowing how to plan a XC on "papyrus" is unimportant, doesn't know **** about flying. Nor does he realize his arrogance in believing that he knows more then his DPE about what a pilot needs to understand, nor how stupid one would have to be to entrust his or her life to a consumer-grade electronic gadget...

    Never mind. Let's just say that this checkride went perfectly. It kept an arrogant, ignorant, know-nothing twerp on the ground where he belongs.

    -Rich
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  25. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The biggest danger in the gene pool is that there's no lifeguard.

     
  26. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    The other problem with the gene pool is they don't use enough chlorine.
     
  27. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Actually it's the other way around, too many lifeguards, not enough letting the stupid get killed before breeding.
     
  28. pflemming

    pflemming Guest

    okay, I hear what you're saying, but I was right and he was wrong. Nobody flies the BS way he was pushing. Do any of you do that paper crap and haul out 100 square feet of paper in the cockpit? And you call ME dangerous and unsafe? While you're folding and unfolding that junk?

    My lesson from this is to bite my tongue and do that BS knowing inside I am right and he is wrong, but he is the one with the power to pass or fail me. Okay got it.
     
  29. pflemming

    pflemming Guest

    What are you saying? That I should be dead? Careful what you say bro.
     
  30. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

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    No... he has no obligation to do so. If you cant satisfactorily pass the oral, there is no reason to go on to the practical.

    You got your exam... You bombed it.

    Flying is an ongoing learning endeavor. Things change every year in the regulatory and AIM environment. I would suggest a different attitude and approach when you are ready to try again.

    When you go for a drivers license if you fail the knowledge test you never get to the driving test. Same concept. Even if you have a reservation for that time slot.
     
  31. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I got it, loud and clear. Adios, doofus. *Click*

     
  32. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Your likelihood of surviving flying is considerably lower than the average pilot, if you fly with with your wife, take the kids so they aren't orphans.
     
  33. pflemming

    pflemming Guest


    You have no prostrate, do you? :rofl:
     
  34. pflemming

    pflemming Guest


    For someone who looks like you do, you have a lot of nerve to criticize me.
     
  35. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/1999/September/199909_Features_Hazardous_Attitudes.html

     
  36. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Mh, yes I do fly that 'BS way'. The next hour of flight usually fits onto a chart folded up into 1/8th. No need for '100 square feet' at a time.
    My paper charts are usually not current as I have the current ones on the ipad.
    Said ipad has died on my twice in the least convenient phases of flight. Once while trying to enter the Hudson exclusion, the other time while maneuvering between the FRZ and the class D airspace for two military fields.
     
  37. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    I flew with paper charts as a private pilot. And I have expired charts (IFR and VFR) in the airplane just in case. As a student pilot and a new private pilot and all through my instrument training I flew with paper and paper only. I got the iPad Mini the day I passed (first try, but I did almost bust it) my instrument practical. I've put in my time using paper, and my students will do the same.

    I didn't make it to CFI level by being a pompous, arrogant, know-it-all either. I admitted mistakes and deficiencies on checkrides (4 of them) learned stuff on checkrides and taught stuff on checkrides. Being a pilot isn't all about having all the right answers.
     
  38. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Dude must not have many friends.
     
  39. pflemming

    pflemming Guest

    Okay, honey, thank you.
     
  40. pflemming

    pflemming Guest

    Not here I don't!

    But... outside of here, can't complain.