PPL solo X-country... am I allowed to plan my own route?

azblackbird

azblackbird

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azblackbird
Just curious... when I get to that point, I want to do a real cross country. I'm talking multi-state type flying. Do I get to choose where I want to go, or does my CFI/aircraft rental company dictate where I get to fly?
 
If you're still a student pilot, it's between you and your instructor. Rental outfits may have some restrictions; common ones I see prohibit international flights, landing on dry lake beds (Burning Man), and restrictions on high terrain or unpaved fields.
 
Generally you work with them to plan it. They don't want you going tremendously farther than required. Remember they have to come fetch you when anything goes wrong, winds get too high, etc.

Generally they prefer airports they know also. No mountains on downwind, no odd setup, not too big or small...


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Depends on how much leash your CFI will give you. Generally they at least want to review your plan encouraging you to make one. Then carry a cell phone with you to call them in case you get into trouble.
 
As a student pilot I got to choose and plan my own solo XC...and I wanted a bit of adventure rather than just point A to B to C. My CFI agreed to let me work it out and what I chose a bit more ambitious than a typical solo XC, but distance wise it was not much more than required.

It will be up to your CFI and you should have a lot of input if not all regarding route, but my guess is that they will not want you going much further than necessary...cuz as a student pilot there is a lot that can and does go wrong that is still outside your knowledge and experience base.
 
And don't be too ambitious as a student pilot.

**** happens during solo cross countries. Being able to deal with it is much of the point. But you don't need to make it harder than it needs to be.

That kind of adventure is a whole lot easier when your instructor doesn't have to review everything you do. That is, after your checkride.

For my own solo cross country, all this stuff happened:
  • Approach lost contact with another airplane making a precautionary landing at a field I was flying over, and asked me to relay. He was fine.
  • I discovered that my DME unit had an effective range of about 5 miles while in flight, and had to replan navigation while enroute so as to not use it.
  • I learned that "mist" at a distance looks a lot like clouds, and planned a diversion that I never executed.
  • The furthest destination had ultralights making calls for "closed runway 29," and I had to figure out there was another runway 29 I could use.
  • I got cut off in the pattern on my arrival back at my home field, because the airplane behind me on downwind thought he was flying my plane (both aircraft were from the same club).
 
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Mine was over 300nm, two states. Route suggested by my CFI.
 
Agree with the above, but I ended up doing a 400nm round trip to burn solo hours


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azblackbird said:
I want to do a real cross country. I'm talking multi-state type flying.
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So you're wanting to fly a trans-con? Most rental outfits like to have their students home in time for dinner.
 
azblackbird said:
Just curious... when I get to that point, I want to do a real cross country. I'm talking multi-state type flying. Do I get to choose where I want to go, or does my CFI/aircraft rental company dictate where I get to fly?
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Depends on what you consider multi-state. I'm assuming the "az" in "azblackbird" stands for Arizona, so are we talking KIGM (Kingman) to KBVU (Boulder City) and back? Or across Texas?
 
MIFlyer said:
Agree with the above, but I ended up doing a 400nm round trip to burn solo hours
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What's funny is I've probably ridden (avid motorcycle/adventure tourer) most every road and many of the trails west of the MS at least once or twice in the past 25 years, so I thought I'd mix it up a bit in an airplane by doing a cool X-country and flying over/following some of my most favorite and scenic rides. I've done many 1000-3000 mile loops and just thought it would be kinda of cool to condense one of my favorite loops into a couple days of flying. No biggie though... there's a couple real nice sunrise to sunset loops here in AZ that I could knock out in a few hours of flying that would cover pretty much all extremes.
 
asicer said:
Depends on what you consider multi-state. I'm assuming the "az" in "azblackbird" stands for Arizona, so are we talking KIGM (Kingman) to KBVU (Boulder City) and back? Or across Texas?
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I was thinking a "Fly the Divide" type X-country. AZ to NM, part of southern CO, then back. It's about a 1500 mile loop.
 
I did KTUS to KBLH way back in the day. That's a pretty good haul in a 150.
 
azblackbird said:
Whomever I choose for my PPL training will also be training me for my instrument. How the hell am I suppose to build any time if I can't fly anywhere fun? :(
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After your private checkride. I can't imagine any CFI would allow a 1500 mile student pilot cross country....


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Remember they are responsible for you every mile of that flight. They don't relax or sleep until you're back. Your screw up could lose them their instructor certificate...


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gsengle said:
After your private checkride. I can't imagine any CFI would allow a 1500 mile student pilot cross country....
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Isn't it called a "cross country" for a reason? WTF do they expect a guy to do? Stay within walking distance of his home base? I thought planes were meant for flying places. :)
 
Cross country is defined as at least 50nm away. Meaning going somewhere. Not in the sense of our nation.


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Something happens 1000 nm away. What do you do? What are the rules of the rental,agreement on the airplane? If it needs repair, will the school approve repairs at the shop, assuming there's a shop nearby? Are you prepared to foot the entire repair bill plus with the possibility of no reimbursement, not to mention any hotel bill for as many days? Plus the possibility that the school will bill you for the time the airplane is in the shop?
 
gsengle said:
Cross country is defined as at least 50nm away. Meaning going somewhere. Not in the sense of our nation.
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I know it's in the regs, but I just find it comical 50nm is considered a cross country. Kinda reminds me of the many dirt bikers I see who never ride more than a mile from their trucks.
 
Because you haven't done it, by yourself, all alone in an airplane. This isn't motorcycles, motorboats or motor-homes. We play by different rules, that's the first thing to learn. There's weather, terrain, fuel exhaustion and a lot of other little things that can become very big in a xcountry of that length.
 
murphey said:
Something happens 1000 nm away. What do you do? What are the rules of the rental,agreement on the airplane? If it needs repair, will the school approve repairs at the shop, assuming there's a shop nearby? Are you prepared to foot the entire repair bill plus with the possibility of no reimbursement, not to mention any hotel bill for as many days? Plus the possibility that the school will bill you for the time the airplane is in the shop?
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Definitely something to consider. You can darn well bet I'll be asking those questions when I interview my CFI/rental facility. Once I get my private I plan on flying at a minimum 50-100+nm round trip legs at least twice a week. Once instrument rated those legs will become longer.
 
Do whatever you want once you're pilot in command. (You pass your checkride and become a PPL) But trust me going more than 100 miles away means everything can change. Weather systems, winds, terrain. Just trust us that pilots at this stage don't know what they don't know...


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Once u have ur cert, fly to where ever u want, no one cares other than ur loved ones. When u the responsibility of the CFI, it's a different story

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iflyvfr said:
Because you haven't done it, by yourself, all alone in an airplane. This isn't motorcycles, motorboats or motor-homes. We play by different rules, that's the first thing to learn. There's weather, terrain, fuel exhaustion and a lot of other little things that can become very big in a xcountry of that length.
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You don't think I plan a long motorcycle ride the same way? Same planning, just different vehicles. Of course I don't have to worry about falling out of the sky on a motorcycle, but the semantics are basically the same.
 
azblackbird said:
You don't think I plan a long motorcycle ride the same way? Same planning, just different vehicles. Of course I don't have to worry about falling out of the sky on a motorcycle, but the semantics are basically the same.
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No they are not

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azblackbird said:
Definitely something to consider. You can darn well bet I'll be asking those questions when I interview my CFI/rental facility. Once I get my private I plan on flying at a minimum 50-100+nm round trip legs at least twice a week. Once instrument rated those legs will become longer.
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Backwards.

You can do 1000 mile VFR flights. Just not as a solo student.
 
Hey OP have you even soloed yet?


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azblackbird said:
Whomever I choose for my PPL training will also be training me for my instrument. How the hell am I suppose to build any time if I can't fly anywhere fun? :(
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Don't you think you're getting a little ahead of yourself? Slow down, you haven't even started learning how to land yet. It's all a building block approach and the rules are that way for a reason. You have a lot of experience riding motorcycles, but you probably didn't leave on a multi-state tour the day after taking the MSF course. Aerial navigation takes some practice, and that's what the student solo XC is about - you fly somewhere that's outside of your normal practice area, but not too far away, to make sure you know how to get there. And back.

I'm all about challenging ourselves by expanding our horizons (literally), but the solo XC's will do exactly that as it is. I have no problem signing off a student for a longer-than-usual XC, and have done so, but we're talking about 300-400 nm round trip (instead of the 150 that's required), not 1500 nm. Too many factors that could overwhelm a student with trips of that distance, primarily among them weather.

Believe me, and this is no slight against you or your abilities, but at this point you don't even know what you don't know. (Like all of us at that stage.)

(Edit - humorously, @gsengle wrote the same thing as I was typing.)
 
MAKG1 said:
I'm not sure he's even taken a lesson yet.
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As someone who flies and rides, one is orders of magnitude more complex with more ways to kill your self than the other...


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azblackbird said:
You don't think I plan a long motorcycle ride the same way? Same planning, just different vehicles. Of course I don't have to worry about falling out of the sky on a motorcycle, but the semantics are basically the same.
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I just gotta see you dead reckon on a motorcycle. Maybe on a boat.

It's really not even close.
 
gsengle said:
Do whatever you want once you're pilot in command. (You pass your checkride and become a PPL) But trust me going more than 100 miles away means everything can change. Weather systems, winds, terrain. Just trust us that pilots at this stage don't know what they don't know...
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I'm not a total newbie to flying. I've probably got a couple hundred hours in a T210 mostly flying in the Rockies so I'm very well aware of weather and terrain. Of course that was 35 years ago and due to all the global warming and what not, I can imagine how the weather and terrain has changed since then. ;)
 
Learn to walk before you run. You didn't start out riding a Honda CBR1000 did you?

After I soloed I was chagrined to discover I couldnt just solo anytime I wanted. Only solos my instructor approved. I did a cross country and it was Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska and back to Colorado. But no mountains. And about 300 miles or so. A lot of instructors make you do a cross country that he and you have done together, and I don't blame them. Keep it conservative, keep it safe.

Theres plenty of time to do long cross countries AFTER you get your PPL.

But to be really free, you need your own airplane (or partnership). Youll get there.
 
MAKG1 said:
I just gotta see you dead reckon on a motorcycle. Maybe on a boat.
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Before GPS systems, I've done many cross country dirt bike rides where all I've had was a trail map, compass, speedometer and a watch. Never had the luxury of any fancy navaids to guide me where I needed to go. Didn't flying kinda use to be that way?
 
azblackbird said:
Before GPS systems, I've done many cross country dirt bike rides where all I've had was a trail map, compass, speedometer and a watch. Never had the luxury of any fancy navaids to guide me where I needed to go. Didn't flying kinda use to be that way?
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Yeah except when you run out of gas on a bike, you can just pull over...


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azblackbird said:
I'm not a total newbie to flying. I've probably got a couple hundred hours in a T210 mostly flying in the Rockies so I'm very well aware of weather and terrain. Of course that was 35 years ago and due to all the global warming and what not, I can imagine how the weather and terrain has changed since then. ;)
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If you know everything, why are you asking us?
 
coloradobluesky said:
I did a cross country and it was Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska and back to Colorado. But no mountains. And about 300 miles or so.
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Lemme guess... Greeley/Ft. Collins up to Cheyenne over to Kimball or Sidney and back. I used to drive a similar route each day when I was pumping oil wells. ;)
 
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