Post Oshkosh COVID anyone?

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Rushie said:
What if you test positive but the vaccine kept you completely asymptomatic, but you caught an ordinary common cold at OSH. Those still exist. You can simultaneously have more than one virus in you. But there is no standard test for the common cold.
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bflynn said:
Vaccinated, there for a week. I felt bad for a few days after coming home…sore throat and a runny nose but a test said it wasn’t COVID.
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One of my vaxed healthcare employees tested negative for Covid, but is awaiting results for Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) which is usually only in infants and old people. She was in bad shape for half a week and then rebounded out to normal like nothing happened (26 y/o female).
 
Are we talking about people who really became sick, or those who test positive ?

Remember Elon Musk was tested 4 times in one day..2 were positive, 2 were negative.
 
eman1200 said:
How is the pool for an infected unvaccinated person different from the pool for an infected vaccinated person?
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It isn't. But if you're unvaccinated you're about 50 times more likely to be in hospital than if you're vaccinated. This really isn't that hard.
 
bull hockey on that....prove it with real science. 98.5% do fine with COVID and if you're under 50 those numbers grow by orders of magnitude. Kids in MD do fine with COVID 11 fatals in 70,000....those are very successful numbers and we want our kids to try an experimental drug?
Katamarino said:
It isn't. But if you're unvaccinated you're about 50 times more likely to be in hospital than if you're vaccinated. This really isn't that hard.
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Was there Thursday through Wednesday, vaccinated. Me, nor anyone I've kept in contact with have or no anybody that caught it there.

Outside most of the time, did wear a mask during one rain shower in a hangar with the booths as it got crowded in a hurry.

I've been actually very shocked I hadn't caught it yet, I continued to travel and work every day during this whole episode. And was in China for about a month in the fourth quarter of 2019.

I have been wearing a mask, even during the "don't wear a mask phase". I had friends in China mailing me masks nearly every day. I was also the first in line to get the vaccine when my age group opened up....

It's not something to f with. To me it's playing Russian Roulette, could be a easy case (as in one of my best friends), or could be a hard case, like my electrician, who nearly died and is otherwise a healthy young guy.

I'm debating giving a false name and getting a booster, my wife, who is in the medical field, is against me doing it. I follow the data out of Israel every week and it's looking like the booster is working.....or it could be the natural progression.
 
Actually it's 98.5 of confirmed that do fine. The 98.5 is probably higher, because, well asymptomatic and unconfirmed.
 
Katamarino said:
It circulates hundreds of times less within the vaccinated, and likely wouldn't circulate at all if enough were vaccinated. I represented things perfectly accurately.
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I travel internationally constantly. Airports in places like India are packed right now with people traveling all over the world. India has 1.4 billion people. Only about 10% are vaccinated and a vast majority of those who aren’t never will be. I was in Delhi a couple days ago. The city is as busy as ever. They’ve stopped caring about COVID. Their death rate from COVID (official) is very low. Much lower than the numbers in highly vaccinated countries like the UK. They wear masks, but….
Asians in general don’t trust or want the vaccine. It’s free in Hong Kong. I think they’re at 20% vaccinated.
My flight from Paris to Chicago today was completely full. People from all over the world, flowing into Chicago. It is very safe to assume most aren’t vaccinated because most people in the world aren’t vaccinated.
Meanwhile, people in the US keep talking about herd immunity. That’s simply naive. This is the 21st century. People travel. Legally and illegally. Most of the world will NEVER be vaccinated. And even if it was, COVID19 has been found in wild animals in many parts of the world including the US. If you think vaccinating the entire human population is a challenge, try keeping track of vaccine hesitant deer.
It really doesn’t matter how many times COVID circulates in vaccinated or unvaccinated. Like all respiratory viruses, it is with us forever in one form or another. That’s just a simple fact.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
bull hockey on that....prove it with real science. 98.5% do fine with COVID and if you're under 50 those numbers grow by orders of magnitude. Kids in MD do fine with COVID 11 fatals in 70,000....those are very successful numbers and we want our kids to try an experimental drug?
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https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017...ering-hospitals-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated

"97% of people entering hospital for COVID are unvaccinated"

There are many more articles and official announcements giving figures in the same range.

mRNA vaccines have been in development for decades. Multiple billions have been given with negligible side effects. They are not "untested" in any way.
 
Rokke214 said:
Like all respiratory viruses, it is with us forever in one form or another. That’s just a simple fact.
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SARS-Cov1 and MERS-Cov are not circulating. They were both controlled using nonpharmaceutical interventions. MERS has a animal reservoir.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There will never be a time without COVID-19. It is forever. The restrictions can not be forever. Some where in there the politics needs to be separated from this so it’s dealt with correctly. So far that has been a bar to high for our leadership since this **** happened last year.
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Polio still exists in the world. But not the US. Because of vaccinations. Which our kids still get. Thank goodness…
 
Katamarino said:
"97% of people entering hospital for COVID are unvaccinated"
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Your article is from July 16. Israel and the UK had similar data before the delta variant took hold. Then everything changed. Latest data shows vaccines are less than 40% effective at stopping the spread of infection. It’s the spread of infection that keeps the virus alive and evolving. Meanwhile, in both countries, only about 1% of COVID recovered are getting sick again. That’s much lower than vaccine breakthrough cases.
The vaccines are proving very ineffective against the delta variant. That is why several countries have already approved booster shots. The data is still out on whether the booster shots are helping. The COVID virus is a rapidly evolving problem. No one benefits from relying on old data. And as fast as things are evolving, one month is very old. Very highly vaccinated countries like Iceland and Israel are completely revamping their vaccine strategies. That isn’t because the vaccines are working as expected. Just the opposite.
 
Katamarino said:
It isn't. But if you're unvaccinated you're about 50 times more likely to be in hospital than if you're vaccinated. This really isn't that hard.
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apparently it's hard for you to say one thing without covering it up with something entirely different. if what you meant to say was what you said above, why didn't you say that? instead you said something entirely different then come back with this. but that's par for the course in having these "conversations"
 
Katamarino said:
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017...ering-hospitals-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated
"97% of people entering hospital for COVID are unvaccinated".
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Be careful with those studies. That study also (conveniently) includes data from all the way back in January when just 0.5% of the population was vaccinated. Of course a huge percentage of those hospitalized were unvaccinated! It is like saying Advil saves lives because 100% of the people who died in the 1800's did not take Advil.
 
Llewtrah381 said: ↑
Polio still exists in the world. But not the US. Because of vaccinations. Which our kids still get. Thank goodness…"
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Checkout_my_Six said:
But….that vaccine works. It prevents the virus from attacking the host.
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Correct. The Polio vaccine is considered a 'perfect vaccine'. The Covid vaccine is considered 'leaky' and those are HUGE distinctions!

"...A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.
It’s important to note childhood vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and smallpox aren’t leaky; they are considered “perfect” vaccines. As such, they are in no way in danger of falling prey to this phenomenon..."
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I don’t know that there is hard data out there on the likelihood of mutant forms of the virus arising in vaccinated versus unvaccinated people and then spreading.

One can make theoretical arguments either way. I would suspect that at most the difference would be 1 order of magnitude since many of the vaccines in use were about 90% effective in preventing infection in the original studies, not 10% or 99%.

This pandemic involves a lot of percentages like that and does not well conform to the usual qualitative descriptions of being “completely effective” or “worthless”. Thus many of the overheated arguments which are the equivalent of “it’s black”, “no it’s white” when the real answer is it is about a 70% shade of gray.

Returning now to the normal arguments over qualitative distinctions …
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This is stone simple. The virus is a living thing that will evolve. We're its ecosystem. When its main obstacle is vaccination it will either adapt or die. If there's enough virus circulating in vaccinated populations it will eventually find a way around, unless it can be extirpated first. Given the fact that one of the most advanced nations in the world can't get half its population to take a free vaccine, I suspect the virus is going to be around and continually exposed to vaccinated populations. The breakthrough is a matter of time.

Whoever told @AMFlying that childhood vaccines are perfect is a dufus, their efficacy is far less than the current COVID vaccines. The trick is enough people get them that the viruses have a tough time getting a foothold. Polio has been relegated to the highlands of Pakistan, though the others go through periodic outbreaks because numerous citizens of advanced countries are too knee deep in misinformation to vaccinate their kids.
 
EdFred said:
I am not entirely sure that the vaccine prevents replication as they are now saying it is being passed on by those that are vaccinated.
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It absolutely does prevent replication. What it does not do is prevent replication in 100% of all cases. The same way seatbelts do not save lives in 100% of all car accidents. In both cases though, the amount of prevention afforded makes the risk/reward a no-brainer IMO.
 
Anybody wonder how they know when you get sick if it is from the delta variant or the original variant? The answer is that they don't. The labs that are doing the covid test are only testing for covid, not which variant. The data you are seeing reported is using the assumption that if someone comes down with Covid and was vaccinated that it must be due to the delta variant. There has been no validation of the number of delta or other variants currently going around. If it isn't the delta variant then they would have to admit that the vaccine was not as effective as they originally told people. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but with the numbers being massaged to show a specific outcome you can't tell.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
It absolutely does prevent replication. What it does not do is prevent replication in 100% of all cases. The same way seatbelts do not save lives in 100% of all car accidents. In both cases though, the amount of prevention afforded makes the risk/reward a no-brainer IMO.
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How can it "absolutely" prevent replication and also not prevent replication 100% of the time? Absolute means, well, absolute, as in always, perfect, without fail, etc...

It can not be both absolute and less than 100% at the same time.

It either works 100% of the time (absolute) or it doesn't work 100% of the time. 80% isn't absolute. 90% isn't absolute. 99% isn't absolute.

Schrodinger's Vaccine????

Or would you like to rephrase?
 
Rokke214 said:
The vaccines are proving very ineffective against the delta variant. .
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By what metric? Specificity in important when making sweeping pronouncements.

The big metric is deaths, followed by hospitalizations, then by illness, then by transmission.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
The same way seatbelts do not save lives in 100% of all car accidents. In both cases though, the amount of prevention afforded makes the risk/reward a no-brainer IMO.
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I guess there are people having significant complications from buckling up? Just sayin'.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

" .. As of August 11, 2021, VAERS has received 1,306 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. .."
"..CDC and FDA identified 42 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS .."
".. VAERS received 6,789 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine .."
 
bflynn said:
In the interest of correctness - the virus mutates when it replicates and it can only replicate when it is inside a living cell. The vaccine prevents replication and do not increase the likelihood of a replication being a mutation. It is orders of magnitude more likely that mutations happen in unvaccinated people.

now that this argument has started…IBTL
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If you're infected, it's replicating. If it's not replicating, you're not infected; you just have some virus on you.
 
AMFlying said:
I guess there are people having significant complications from buckling up? Just sayin'.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

" .. As of August 11, 2021, VAERS has received 1,306 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. .."
"..CDC and FDA identified 42 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS .."
".. VAERS received 6,789 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine .."
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Don’t confuse “reported” with causality. Thousands of vaccine recipients are reported to have died in car wrecks. There is no causality.
 
EdFred said:
How can it "absolutely" prevent replication and also not prevent replication 100% of the time? Absolute means, well, absolute, as in always, perfect, without fail, etc...

It can not be both absolute and less than 100% at the same time.

It either works 100% of the time (absolute) or it doesn't work 100% of the time. 80% isn't absolute. 90% isn't absolute. 99% isn't absolute.

Schrodinger's Vaccine????

Or would you like to rephrase?
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Question for you. If my wife asks me if I would like her to make me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch and I say 'Absolutely!' Should she take that to mean I want PB&J and only PB&J for lunch for 100% of my remaining lunches I have available on this Earth? Should she take that mean I guarantee that there will never come a day when I don't want PB&J for lunch?

But because its apparently pedantic day, I will happily rephrase. It DEFINITELY does prevent replication. Happy now?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Question for you. If my wife asks me if I would like her to make me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch and I say 'Absolutely!' Should she take that to mean I want PB&J and only PB&J for lunch for 100% of my remaining lunches I have available on this Earth? Should she take that mean I guarantee that there will never come a day when I don't want PB&J for lunch?

But because its apparently pedantic day, I will happily rephrase. It DEFINITELY does prevent replication. Happy now?
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Still too definitive based on current knowledge. Saying it can prevent replication would be acceptable.

I also don't understand why the wife isn't making her own lunch.
 
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