Possible to use FAA for PPL checkride or impractical and use DPE?

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pj500

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pj500
Realistically, is it possible to use the FAA for a private check-ride, or is DPE the only practical way to go?

I don't care much, but a few hundred bucks is still some money.
 
Yes you can, with the budget cuts and them not even doing all the initial CFI rides like before, might be a PIA to get on the books with them for the ride.

Also after taking my CFI at the FSDO, I would not recommend it, unless youre into sadomasochism or something

Suck it up and pay the DPE, also your CFI probably knows the DPE and his typical PPL ride.
 
Go with the dpe ,takes forever to get an appointment with the FAA , why would you want all that stress to save a few bucks.
 
Availability depends on the FSDO. If I recall the conversation correctly, scheduling for my CFI ride went something like this: "Hi, I need to schedule a CFI checkride." "Sure, want to do it next week?"

Granted, that call was direct to the FSDO inspector, not to a secretary handling scheduling or anybody like that.

In my experience with the FSDO here, it seems those guys want to do anything they can to get out of the office and go fly! And I don't blame them.
 
I did my private with an inspector from the FSDO in 2011. No problem at all for me, and it wasn't what I would call masochistic. But, YMMV.
 
One advantage of using a DPE over a FSDO inspector is that the DPE can't ground your airplane if he finds something about the airplane or in the logs that he doesn't like.
 
So you're just going to climb in and fly away?

JimNtexas said:
One advantage of using a DPE over a FSDO inspector is that the DPE can't ground your airplane if he finds something about the airplane or in the logs that he doesn't like.
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wabower said:
So you're just going to climb in and fly away?
Click to expand...

Sure, if I think it's safe to do so, and there isn't an FAA employee standing there telling me the plane is grounded.

And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
 
JimNtexas said:
Sure, if I think it's safe to do so, and there isn't an FAA employee standing there telling me the plane is grounded.

And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...


Understatement! When I did my SODA, 5 guys from MX drooled over the logs and then drove 1/2 mile up the ramp in 20 degree weather to drool over the plane, like hyenas looking for a bone to pick.
 
JimNtexas said:
Sure, if I think it's safe to do so, and there isn't an FAA employee standing there telling me the plane is grounded.

And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I used the same DPE for 3 checkrides (private, instrument, commercial) and he wanted to see the logs all three times. The private I used a flight school airplane that he obviously flies. The instrument he had flown too but it was my airplane. The commercial again he'd flown in it and knew the logs from my instrument (and b oyfriends instrument) but still wanted to go over them. On my CFI checkride with the FAA the inspector again asked for the logs and we went over them together. In fact, he wanted to bring a guy from the maintenance side of the FSDO go over the airplane, but because my boyfriend had done a checkride with a DPE two days prior, the DPE calle the FSDO (he's also an IA) and said the airplane is fine don't bring mx out.. so luckily they didn't. I think that examiners SHOULD look at the logs, if nothing else to make sure the applicant knows what to look for. Yeah, the logs of your rental are probably fine, but if an applicant ever wants to own they need to understand what is required.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Yes you can, with the budget cuts and them not even doing all the initial CFI rides like before, might be a PIA to get on the books with them for the ride.
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Not possible unless you simply cannot find a DPE to give you the ride. Only exception is combining your PP ride with a SMFT (like for color blindness or monocular vision or hearing problems or the like), which must by rule may only given by FAA Inspectors.
 
JimNtexas said:
One advantage of using a DPE over a FSDO inspector is that the DPE can't ground your airplane if he finds something about the airplane or in the logs that he doesn't like.
Click to expand...
Technically, neither can an Inspector. However, the Inspector can and will take prompt enforcement action if you attempt to fly the plane after being told it's not legally airworthy, while the only power the DPE has is to decline to conduct the test.

That said, DPE's do know the FSDO's number and will likely call it if you do take off after they tell you the plane isn't airworthy, and after you do that, you would probably not want to try to take the test again with that same DPE.
 
JimNtexas said:
And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...
I guess you aren't sending people for practical tests. The DPE is required to go over the logs with you as part of the practical test to ensure that you can tell if the maintenance records are in proper order and the airplane is legal to fly. See, for example, PP-Airplane Area I, Task B. No DPE is ever going to get in an aircraft until the DPE is satisfied it's legal to fly, and part of that means checking the aircraft records including inspections and AD's.
 
bnt83 said:
Understatement! When I did my SODA, 5 guys from MX drooled over the logs and then drove 1/2 mile up the ramp in 20 degree weather to drool over the plane, like hyenas looking for a bone to pick.
Click to expand...
That's the big difference -- with a DPE, it's just you and the DPE. With a FSDO ride, while you are doing the ground portion with the Ops Inspector, an Airworthiness Inspector is going through the logs and inspecting the aircraft itself -- and that Airworthiness Inspector is a lot more likely to find an airworthiness nit to pick.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's the big difference -- with a DPE, it's just you and the DPE. With a FSDO ride, while you are doing the ground portion with the Ops Inspector, an Airworthiness Inspector is going through the logs and inspecting the aircraft itself -- and that Airworthiness Inspector is a lot more likely to find an airworthiness nit to pick.
Click to expand...


Funny thing, the Inspector from Ops doing the SODA just sold the plane about 30 days prior. So I gave him a ride in his old plane :D
 
Ron Levy said:
... No DPE is ever going to get in an aircraft until the DPE is satisfied it's legal to fly, and part of that means checking the aircraft records including inspections and AD's.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I watch over the maintenance logs for my flying club, and I've never released them for a checkride except for the pilots going to the FSDO for CFI rides.

Maybe our club just has the reputation of taking care to keep our planes legal to fly. We certainly do our best anyway.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not possible unless you simply cannot find a DPE to give you the ride. Only exception is combining your PP ride with a SMFT (like for color blindness or monocular vision or hearing problems or the like), which must by rule may only given by FAA Inspectors.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that out of the 45, 760 FAA employees there is not ONE that can give a PPL check ride.....:dunno::dunno::dunno:

I say BS ...:yes::mad2:
 
JimNtexas said:
That's interesting, I didn't know that. I watch over the maintenance logs for my flying club, and I've never released them for a checkride except for the pilots going to the FSDO for CFI rides.

Maybe our club just has the reputation of taking care to keep our planes legal to fly. We certainly do our best anyway.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but clearly you have a DPE who doesn't do what the FAA tells them to do, because it is impossible to conduct a Private Pilot practical test according to the PTS without having the maintenance records available.
 
N801BH said:
Are you saying that out of the 45, 760 FAA employees there is not ONE that can give a PPL check ride.....:dunno::dunno::dunno:

I say BS ...:yes::mad2:
Click to expand...
They can, but they won't unless the applicant needs a SMFT or there is no DPE able to do it. As such, from the applicant's perspective, outside those exceptions, it's not possible.
 
Ron Levy said:
They can, but they won't unless need a SMFT or there is no DPE able to do it. As such, from the applicant's perspective, outside those exceptions, it's not possible.
Click to expand...


I say fire EVERYONE of those lazy bastards and hire people who will do what the job entails....:mad::mad::mad2:
 
Ron Levy said:
Maybe, but clearly you have a DPE who doesn't do what the FAA tells them to do, because it is impossible to conduct a Private Pilot practical test according to the PTS without having the maintenance records available.
Click to expand...

I guess the DPE's for my private, instrument, and commercial were all doing it wrong.
 
JimNtexas said:
I guess the DPE's for my private, instrument, and commercial were all doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes, they were.

As Ron said...it's required for the applicant to show the DPE (or the FSDO inspector) that the aircraft is airworthy by having the aircraft maintenance records available for inspection and also by showing that the required documents are in the aircraft.

I have a PP student going for his checkride tomorrow....and even though he and I both know the FBO and the mechanic very well, the records for the airplane were carefully reviewed and then the required inspections were tabbed in the maintenance records for the DPE's inspection.

Not able to show airworthiness...NO checkride.


Mike
 
JimNtexas said:
And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I've never NOT had a DPE go through the logs to determine airworthiness. It's part of their job. We add post it notes on key items, i.e. annual, 100 hr., pitot/static/transponder, etc.
 
JimNtexas said:
Sure, if I think it's safe to do so, and there isn't an FAA employee standing there telling me the plane is grounded.

And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...

When I was a DPE I sent more than one applicant back home to get the logs. Don't remember if I was required to issue a pinkie or just a discontinuance. I can tell you that the flight schools involved never made that mistake again.

Bob Gardner
 
LDJones said:
Seriously? I've never NOT had a DPE go through the logs to determine airworthiness. It's part of their job. We add post it notes on key items, i.e. annual, 100 hr., pitot/static/transponder, etc.
Click to expand...

Some DPEs that deal with the same plane over and over will not dive too deep (if at all) into the logs.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's the big difference -- with a DPE, it's just you and the DPE. With a FSDO ride, while you are doing the ground portion with the Ops Inspector, an Airworthiness Inspector is going through the logs and inspecting the aircraft itself -- and that Airworthiness Inspector is a lot more likely to find an airworthiness nit to pick.
Click to expand...

I gave CFI initials when I was an Inspector and I didn't bring an AW Inspector along. I just asked the applicant to produce the logs and show me that the aircraft was legal to operate.

I had one turndown. During a preflight we found an abrasion hole in the leading edge of a blade. The flight school promptly grounded the helo and supplied us with another one.
 
LDJones said:
Seriously? I've never NOT had a DPE go through the logs to determine airworthiness. It's part of their job. We add post it notes on key items, i.e. annual, 100 hr., pitot/static/transponder, etc.
Click to expand...

Besides, it's a good exercise to have the applicant prove to the Inspector/Examiner he knows where to find the correct items and what they mean. :yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
They can, but they won't unless the applicant needs a SMFT or there is no DPE able to do it. As such, from the applicant's perspective, outside those exceptions, it's not possible.
Click to expand...

It can happen, just depends upon the office.

As far as the number of employees Ben, the Flight Standards has less than 5000 employees, and far less Inspectors. Not sure the exact number now but Inspectors are spread very thin. There is a thing called National Resource where a FSDO can tap an Inspector from another office to perform a check if it can't be done from their office. I did several like that since I was helicopter qualified and the FAA is very short on helicopter Inspectors.

If you know an Ops Inspector personally and he can get the time yes you can get a PP check ride from him. He has to get permission from the FLM but everything is negotiable, and if the Inspector can combine the check with a couple of other job functions (ramp check, 141 inspection, etc) he can make it happen.
 
RotorAndWing said:
It can happen, just depends upon the office.

As far as the number of employees Ben, the Flight Standards has less than 5000 employees, and far less Inspectors. Not sure the exact number now but Inspectors are spread very thin. There is a thing called National Resource where a FSDO can tap an Inspector from another office to perform a check if it can't be done from their office. I did several like that since I was helicopter qualified and the FAA is very short on helicopter Inspectors.

If you know an Ops Inspector personally and he can get the time yes you can get a PP check ride from him. He has to get permission from the FLM but everything is negotiable, and if the Inspector can combine the check with a couple of other job functions (ramp check, 141 inspection, etc) he can make it happen.
Click to expand...

Good info sir.....

I say dump the 20,000 or so dead beat, pencil pushers in DC and all the offices around the country and hire inspectors to fulfill the FAA's rule in aviation safety...
 
N801BH said:
Good info sir.....

I say dump the 20,000 or so dead beat, pencil pushers in DC and all the offices around the country and hire inspectors to fulfill the FAA's rule in aviation safety...
Click to expand...

Remember, the FAA's primary role is to keep the airlines from sloughing off on maintenance and having accidents that kill hundreds of people at a time.
 
JimNtexas said:
Sure, if I think it's safe to do so, and there isn't an FAA employee standing there telling me the plane is grounded.

And I've never heard of a DPE asking to see the airplane logs, but my understanding is that the FAA Inspectors usually want to see the airplane logs.
Click to expand...

When I did my SODA flight it seemed that one FAA inspector took longer to examine my books than the flight examiner kept me in the air.

HR
 
RussR said:
Availability depends on the FSDO. If I recall the conversation correctly, scheduling for my CFI ride went something like this: "Hi, I need to schedule a CFI checkride." "Sure, want to do it next week?"

Granted, that call was direct to the FSDO inspector, not to a secretary handling scheduling or anybody like that.

In my experience with the FSDO here, it seems those guys want to do anything they can to get out of the office and go fly! And I don't blame them.
Click to expand...
I wanted to take my commercial single ride with a friend and past CFI who was now an FAA inspector. He was not only willing but wanted to do it as well, partly because I would be using an antique taildragger (already had commercial AMEL). Part of the reason I wanted to go with the FAA inspector was that he was of "small stature" and our combined weight didn't exceed the meager full fuel payload of the airplane. But his superiors vetoed it and I ended up using another friend who was a DPE.
 
bnt83 said:
Understatement! When I did my SODA, 5 guys from MX drooled over the logs and then drove 1/2 mile up the ramp in 20 degree weather to drool over the plane, like hyenas looking for a bone to pick.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're absolutely ****ing ridiculous about it, it is their goal to stop your ride and ground the plane for any reason they can dream up. Some times they stop the ride, say they don't like the plane, even though they can't find a single reason as to why it's not airworthy.
 
jesse said:
Yeah, they're absolutely ****ing ridiculous about it, it is their goal to stop your ride and ground the plane for any reason they can dream up. Some times they stop the ride, say they don't like the plane, even though they can't find a single reason as to why it's not airworthy.
Click to expand...

A guy who took a CFI ride with the same guy I did (about 5 years ago though) was told his airplane wasn't airworthy by the mx dude because the N numbers were too close together. Even the inspector thought it was BS and he flew it anyway.
 
I did my initial CFI(H) and commercial glider add on with the FAA. CFI ride was typical but not terrible. Glider add on was a pleasant check ride with a nice guy. The soaring school set up the check ride no idea how they got the FAA out there or if that was their usual way of doing things. Saved me a few bucks otherwise it is all the same.
 
pj500 said:
Realistically, is it possible to use the FAA for a private check-ride, or is DPE the only practical way to go?

I don't care much, but a few hundred bucks is still some money.
Click to expand...

I imagine it depends on the FSDO you're out of. I don't think you can even get an FAA guy for a CFI ride in SoFla anymore, but it's a busy district.
 
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