Position reporting...

[AggieMike88]

Prep video reviewed position reporting. (AIM 5-3-2)

Is this done much in today's GPS direct environment? I don't recall hearing reports being done on my longer cross country flights.

AIM 5-3-2(c) 2. Says "Flights Along a Direct Route. Regardless of the altitude or flight level being flown, including flights operating in accordance with an ATC clearance specifying “VFR-on-Top,” pilots must report over each reporting point used in the flight plan to define the route of flight."

Does this mean that if had a direct clearance to a Houston airport and had KCLL plugged in to the GPS as a waypoint (but wasn't specified in my filed plan or the clearance), I need to make a report to ATC as I cross over KCLL?

 

[frfly172]

Reporting points while flying IFR ,for most purposes have gone away. If ATC can not keep radar coverage,they may ask you to report,over a reporting point.

 

[Brad Z]

Prep video reviewed position reporting. (AIM 5-3-2)

Is this done much in today's GPS direct environment? I don't recall hearing reports being done on my longer cross country flights.

AIM 5-3-2(c) 2. Says "Flights Along a Direct Route. Regardless of the altitude or flight level being flown, including flights operating in accordance with an ATC clearance specifying “VFR-on-Top,” pilots must report over each reporting point used in the flight plan to define the route of flight."

Does this mean that if had a direct clearance to a Houston airport and had KCLL plugged in to the GPS as a waypoint (but wasn't specified in my filed plan or the clearance), I need to make a report to ATC as I cross over KCLL?

You answered your own question. KCLL was not used to define the route of flight in your plan or clearance.

It's not common to position report, but if radar is lost, that's what you'll have to do. Learn the rules so you won't be struggling like everyone else on the frequency.

 

[Brad Z]

Reporting points while flying IFR ,for most purposes have gone away. If ATC can not keep radar coverage,they may ask you to report,over a reporting point.

It's not common, but it by no means has gone away. It's very common in some parts out west.

Radar failure is rare, and in many parts, radar coverage overlaps, or center radar can be substituted for approach radar (with corresponding increases in separation) with minimal fuss. Nevertheless, always be ready to expect a reroute back to airways with postion reporting.

 

[frfly172]

Just did a trip out west ,when they lost coverage,they told me to call back in a certain amount of time.

 

[Sam D]

I understand that there are 4 mandatory position reports on the way to Hawaii.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

Never seen someone do this while in radar coverage and even asked my brother who is an ATC about this and being his smart*** self said, "If I can see you on my screen...I know where you are...Don't have to tell me..."

 

[Henning]

The only time I have been assigned position reporting was out west between the mountains and off radar.

 

[somorris]

I have had to make position reports flying in Arkansas because I was a little too low for the Center's radar to see me. Not a big deal, but I didn't follow (ATC didn't ask) the official procedure (if memory serves, where I am/time, time to next reporting point and the reporting point after that (but not the time to it). He just asked me to report a certain point. Evidently, ATC has dead spots in their radar coverage just like we do with cell phones.

 

[azure]

There are always equipment outages that can cause them to not be able to see you at a cleared altitude. I have been asked to report over KRAZZ in upstate New York.

 

[flyingron]

If suddenly radar goes out and you need to do position reporting, you're likely to find that the next words out of the controller's mouth are "I need to get you back on an airway."

Amusingly when this happened, I fed the airway route into the 480 and just expanded the flight plan which showed ETAs to all the fixes on the airway. Made the position reporting easy. Having just been through my IR training I was all prepared to give the mandatory position reports by the book. The controller, I guess getting too many people who don't know how to do that, just kept telling people to report the next fix.

 

[Larry in TN]

Position reporting is used when a flight is not in radar contact. You won't run into that very often flying around Iowa but most of the earth's airspace is non-radar and a lot of airplanes fly through that non-radar airspace.

 

[AggieMike88]

Thanks for the answers.

Now to get the "At All Times" and "When not in radar contact" lists from AIM 5-3-3 packed into the memory bank.

 

[FORANE]

I have been asked for position reports but quite rarely.

Familiarize yourself with the compulsory reporting point symbol on the enroute charts.

 

[petrolero]

I had to report positions on a flight from Pueblo to Lamar, CO because a radar site was inop. Other than that... never.

 

[midlifeflyer]

As a sort of aside, I've been asked to position report during a VFR flight when going out of radar contact while receiving Flight Following services.

 

[azure]

If suddenly radar goes out and you need to do position reporting, you're likely to find that the next words out of the controller's mouth are "I need to get you back on an airway."

That is true. In my case, I was told this by either Syracuse or Sack Approach, and the issue was a known ZBW radar outage. I was not yet in ZBW airspace however. I was given the choice, climb to 11,000 or get on an airway. I'd never taken my Cardinal that high before but was game to try. So they said to climb and maintain 11,000. I don't recall the exact sequence of events but I believe I was still climbing when they handed me off to ZBW, and it was the ZBW controller who instructed me to report over KRAZZ since I was not yet high enough for them to see me. ISTR that I was just about to make the report when they said radar contact, or maybe I made it and was immediately identified.

Amusingly when this happened, I fed the airway route into the 480 and just expanded the flight plan which showed ETAs to all the fixes on the airway. Made the position reporting easy. Having just been through my IR training I was all prepared to give the mandatory position reports by the book. The controller, I guess getting too many people who don't know how to do that, just kept telling people to report the next fix.

Yeah, the 480 makes putting in an airway easy. Isn't the position reporting just as easy using the x30 series though? I thought it was just that you had to enter all of the fixes by hand, but once you had them in, it gives you ETAs just like the venerable 480. (I'm not sure though, since I've only once flown real IFR with a 430, and that was about 5 years ago now.)

 

[peerlesscowboy]

...................................
Does this mean that if had a direct clearance to a Houston airport and had KCLL plugged in to the GPS as a waypoint (but wasn't specified in my filed plan or the clearance), I need to make a report to ATC as I cross over KCLL?

Why would you have KCLL plugged in to the GPS as a waypoint if it wasn't part of your filed or cleared route

........anyway, no if it's not a fix that defines your route then it's not a mandatory reporting point on a direct clearance (mandatory reporting points are fixes where you're expected to give a position report without a request from ATC [non-radar]). If your route crosses from one sector to another and you're non-radar then you can assume you'll be requested to report somewhere around the sector boundary. If you're operating /A this will normally be stated as miles to or from the closest VOR station that defines your route segment, if you're operating /G it will normally be stated as miles to the next waypoint.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

If suddenly radar goes out and you need to do position reporting, you're likely to find that the next words out of the controller's mouth are "I need to get you back on an airway."

That might well be true in some places but where I fly non-radar off airway direct flights are quite common.

 

[timfountain]

Flying in the mountainous PNW, I've been asked a few times on IFR flights out or Portland to Central and South Oregon to report certain points due to RADAR coverage and mountains, but when I lived in TX I never had a single request.....

 

[Henning]

That is true. In my case, I was told this by either Syracuse or Sack Approach, and the issue was a known ZBW radar outage. I was not yet in ZBW airspace however. I was given the choice, climb to 11,000 or get on an airway. I'd never taken my Cardinal that high before but was game to try. So they said to climb and maintain 11,000. I don't recall the exact sequence of events but I believe I was still climbing when they handed me off to ZBW, and it was the ZBW controller who instructed me to report over KRAZZ since I was not yet high enough for them to see me. ISTR that I was just about to make the report when they said radar contact, or maybe I made it and was immediately identified.


Yeah, the 480 makes putting in an airway easy. Isn't the position reporting just as easy using the x30 series though? I thought it was just that you had to enter all of the fixes by hand, but once you had them in, it gives you ETAs just like the venerable 480. (I'm not sure though, since I've only once flown real IFR with a 430, and that was about 5 years ago now.)

You just hit it, you have to put all the points in by hand, that's a lot of time and work.

 

[midlifeflyer]

You just hit it, you have to put all the points in by hand, that's a lot of time and work.

I'm not sure I'd put in all the extra points at one time. Just the one(s) needed for the next position report as I went along. I can just see finishing the job and hearing "radar contact" from ATC as it was re-established.

 

[kgruber]

Even if you are VFR you can/should give position reports to FSS.

Narrows down the search area.