Portable O2 system

Pilawt

Pilawt

Final Approach
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Pilawt
I frequently cruise at 12,500', and on occasion go up to 13,500', within the 30-minute window of FAR 91.211(a)(1). It's just a 172 (180 hp), but at light weight it can scamper right on up there, and sometimes it's worthwhile to do so. What would you all recommend for a reasonably-priced portable ox system, for short duration for one person below 15,000'? Thx.
 
This is what I have and love it! It has a mechanical oxymizer system that really cuts down on oxygen used without requiring batteries. It's plenty of air for 2 people at 2-3 hours or one person at 4-6 hours. Their site claims more time and I haven't used it till it's empty. The Oxymizer works like a little diaphragm that senses the low and high pressure of inhaling versus exhaling to control oxygen flow. You can watch it work as you breathe, pretty clever.

http://www.skyox.com/product/SK 12-9
 
Pilawt said:
I frequently cruise at 12,500', and on occasion go up to 13,500', within the 30-minute window of FAR 91.211(a)(1). It's just a 172 (180 hp), but at light weight it can scamper right on up there, and sometimes it's worthwhile to do so. What would you all recommend for a reasonably-priced portable ox system, for short duration for one person below 15,000'? Thx.
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I got one from these guys and am happy with it.
http://www.mhoxygen.com/
 
Man I wish the 140 climbed like that. I've been impressed with how well the 172S models climb (what I'm currently doing the Commercial in).
 
I looked at the MH and the Nelson Precise flight demand regulators. At the time I bought Nelson had a slight edge but MH corrected the issues I had with their earlier units, so I wouldn't be unhappy with their current products.

Haven't seen the SkyOx, but if it follows suit in that it only flows when you're inspiring like the others, it should give you quite a reasonable amount of bottle time. We use the O2 liberally since the bottles last a good time and they're not that expensive to fill.
 
Didn't Doc Bruce create a thread on a DYI system?
 
I don’t think the skyox is as frugal as the digital systems but it was cheaper and a nice compromise. I fill mine at home from a cascade system I fill at the local welding supply.
 
Buy a medical tank off craigslist and a cannula. Prolly can do it under $75..... I have a Mtn High o2d2-g2, 22 cu tank and stations for 5. That ran me close to $1500. But I'm poking along at just below 18k.
 
Grum.Man said:
This is what I have and love it! It has a mechanical oxymizer system that really cuts down on oxygen used without requiring batteries. It's plenty of air for 2 people at 2-3 hours or one person at 4-6 hours. Their site claims more time and I haven't used it till it's empty. The Oxymizer works like a little diaphragm that senses the low and high pressure of inhaling versus exhaling to control oxygen flow. You can watch it work as you breathe, pretty clever.

http://www.skyox.com/product/SK 12-9
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Another one with the skyox. Works well for me.
 
You said for one person.

Buy a medical "E" tank off of eBay with a pulse-dose regulator. You can easily get both for less than $100. Get a dive shop or welding shop (might need an adapter for the latter) or get your AME to give you a prescription to get it filled at a medical supply place. You'll also need a cannula. That's about it. Putting the cannula on at takeoff and using it constantly, I've gone clear across the country and back in my single-place aircraft (coast to coast) and still had oxygen left in the bottle when I got back. An E tank is about 22-24 cu ft. You don't need Mountain High, SkyOx, or any of the other expensive stuff. My regulator is a PD1000 from DeVilbiss but there are a number of other brands. The important consideration is that it is a pulse-dose regulator. Also, you'll want a $30 Chinese-made pulse oximeter to keep at hand to measure your saturation.
 
Is it legal to fly with an uncertified oxygen tank? Doesn’t it class as Dangerous Goods? (I don’t know, just asking...) Just pulled the trigger on an Aerox 4D system which I intend using as low as FL100 because our DA tends to run quite high.. I’m told it really cuts down on fatigue...
 
Put one together yourself and you will save a bundle. The $500 system has the aviation premium attached to it.

Rough costs:
Tank $50
Regulator $25
Hose and cannula $5

That is really all that is needed. If you pay over $100, it is wasted money.
 
bflynn said:
Put one together yourself and you will save a bundle. The $500 system has the aviation premium attached to it.

Rough costs:
Tank $50
Regulator $25
Hose and cannula $5

That is really all that is needed. If you pay over $100, it is wasted money.
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Generally yes.... but the O2D2 is really a gas saver for us. 5 stations running will drain a 22 tank in no time without it. I also have a 11cu back up tank. Pulse demand for the serious XCer for two reasons..... actual time flying at altitude and good luck finding an O2 refill at podunk municipal airport, any town USA. Tankering O2 is a must unless your preplanning is comprehensive.
 
Is it legal to fly with an uncertified oxygen tank?
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What part of the SkyOx/PreciseFlight/MH tank do you think is "certified?"

The homebrew situations (if you're reasonably careful) will work. It's not that sophisticated. The big issue for me, is that I wanted the demand flow which means you'll be getting 20 man-hours out of the tank as opposed to only four or so. You won't get that for $100. Oxygen is cheap until you run out in flight.
 
By the way, if it's a Cirrus, check the TCDS for the serial number and type of airplane. At one point, the Cirrus TCDS has a limitation as follows:
Only portable oxygen systems listed and used in accordance with the FAA Approved Flight Manual document number 11934-001, or later FAA approved
revisions are approved.
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I don't know whether that's changed, and I don't know what systems might be approved - but I saw this as an attempt to make you buy a system from Cirrus as few, if any, system manufacturers will go through the brain damage to get an STC.

I have a Skyox tank/regulator and I think one new (old stock) Oxymiser cannula that i used to use along with the installed system in the plane I sold (some places didn't have the capability to refill on a long trip). I'm not using it, but it's a full tank so shipping it as Hazmat is pricy.
 
bflynn said:
Put one together yourself and you will save a bundle. The $500 system has the aviation premium attached to it.

Rough costs:
Tank $50
Regulator $25
Hose and cannula $5

That is really all that is needed. If you pay over $100, it is wasted money.
Click to expand...

I rarely fly over about 7500, but am expecting to start doing more longer distance flights where it can make more sense to fly higher. For now I'm intrigued by assembling a small portable oxygen system so my wife and I can try out higher altitudes. Which of the regulators for the low cost systems can supply oxygen to 2 users? The ones cited in the posts above all seem to me to have a single outlet. Can they feed 2 systems by just putting a T in the line?
 
You can, then double the O2 bleed rate. Something like a liter or two per hour per person should be fine. Verify with an oximeter what works for you.

From memory, the tall E size tank bleeding at 2 liters per hour should last 8 hours.

If you want an on demand regulator, I have not researched them.
 
For what it is worth, I am taking the advice of several here and found a $50 deal on craigslist for two bottles, a regulator, plus a bag of cannulas and masks. It is medical use oxygen stuff but the deal seems great. I will get it later today and report back. Now the only issue is that I own a 1/3 share in a 1966 150F whose service ceiling is no higher than the O2 level anyway, but why not play around with O2 at lower levels and at night! I am a new pilot so still exploring and have been wanting to just find a day with a nice calm wind and cool temp to just take the plane up to its ceiling.

Any suggestions or concerns in taking a 150 up to 12,000 until it stops climbing? Do things get weird when you approach the service ceiling?
 
The need for oxygen starts well below the FAA altitudes. The FAA just put a hard rule on spending time without it above a certain point. It's sort of like the per se DUI limit. You can be intoxicated at a lower level, but above the limit they just assume you are.

As for climbing the 150, there's no problem doing so. Note that the "service ceiling" is not where it stops climbing. That's the absolute ceiling. The service ceiling requires a 100FPM climb still be available. You can climb a 150 until it won't climb anymore or you can't stand it. Nothing untoward happens, but be careful not to stall it trying to get that last amount of climb out of it. I took a 152 up to 14000 or so once years ago. Note that you also need to plan time to come back down from that altitude. You can easily hit the redline on the descent...

Some airplanes have some other fun and games at high altitudes, but the 150 is not one of them.
 
Mike Blackburn said:
Is it legal to fly with an uncertified oxygen tank? Doesn’t it class as Dangerous Goods? (I don’t know, just asking...) Just pulled the trigger on an Aerox 4D system which I intend using as low as FL100 because our DA tends to run quite high.. I’m told it really cuts down on fatigue...
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why is it "not certified".....most dive shops can perform hydrostatic testing on the tank and give it the appropriate DOT stamp. The FAA does not regulate pressure vessels.

My large tank (115 cuft) cost $25 to certify and another $50 to fill...prolly the cheapest maintenance item on the airplane.
 
flyingron said:
What part of the SkyOx/PreciseFlight/MH tank do you think is "certified?"

The homebrew situations (if you're reasonably careful) will work. It's not that sophisticated. The big issue for me, is that I wanted the demand flow which means you'll be getting 20 man-hours out of the tank as opposed to only four or so. You won't get that for $100. Oxygen is cheap until you run out in flight.
Click to expand...

My PD-1000 from Devilbiss is a demand (the PD stands for "pulse dose") regulator and highly adjustable. There were at least two other manufacturers of demand flow medical regulators on the market when I bought mine several years ago. Mine has a dial with numbers 1 through 9 ending with CF (Constant Flow) at the end. I adjust as necessary based on what I'm feeling and on what I'm reading on the oximeter. I recall mine was new open box on eBay for $35.

The REALLY elegant way to put oxygen in the plane - and would work for rentals as well - is an oxygen concentrator. There's a number of companies that make them and a lot of research ought to be done before choosing since some cost less than others. My current choice (were I to buy one) is an Inogen G4. It's good to 15,000 feet. Weighs 2.8 lbs. and is seven inches by nine inches, runs on cigarette lighter plug (if 12 volts) or the easily-switchable propriatory battery that comes with it. Explensive if bought new - about 2K - but people have spent that much or more on aviation systems without batting an eye. Military fighters use oxygen concentrators these days. I've never bought one of these but I would keep an eye on Craigslist if I did go looking. One innovative fellow is marketing them for aviation use by re-branding the name and calling it an "Aviator". His website shows the G3 model which is a tad larger than the G4, but still very small. His "Aviator" is the exact same unit sold for medical use, the only difference being the label.

http://www.inogenaviator.com/
 
Well, I got my medical oxygen system. Standard craigslist encounter - had to wait an extra hour in a Walmart parking lot because the seller got rear ended. But I have two 22l tanks, one half and one full of gas, plus a tank cart, regulator, and a bag of sealed tubing, cannulas, and masks. It is hard to judge how O2 work on the ground, but the regulator puts out .5-25 l per hour and I can feel it coming out fine.

What is a good flow rate starting point for 8000’ with a constant flow regulator via nasal cannula?
 
I would experiment with flow rates and a pulse ox. A decent one on Amazon’s won’t cost much. Start with a lower rate to begin with. So take your resting pulse ox on the ground..... then try to match it in the air.
 
I think it was in one of Mike Busch's columns wherein he said a constant flow regulator wastes 3/5's of the oxygen in the tank. A pulse dose regulator can be had for $35 - it's what I paid for my PD-1000. There are several other brands of demand regulators so an inexpensive one should be an easy find.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the Mtn High o2d2 also has an altitude compensator on it.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
Well, I got my medical oxygen system. Standard craigslist encounter - had to wait an extra hour in a Walmart parking lot because the seller got rear ended. But I have two 22l tanks, one half and one full of gas, plus a tank cart, regulator, and a bag of sealed tubing, cannulas, and masks. It is hard to judge how O2 work on the ground, but the regulator puts out .5-25 l per hour and I can feel it coming out fine.

What is a good flow rate starting point for 8000’ with a constant flow regulator via nasal cannula?
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I don't understand your stated tank size. Here is a chart for tank size and capacity:
https://applied-inc.com/oxygen-cylinder-sizes-and-info

In a hospital setting we typically use 2 or 4 lpm continuous. On a nasal cannula it is a waste of oxygen to exceed 4 lpm. Flow rates in excess of 4 lpm should be reserved for one of the oxygen mask variants. Understand that continuous flow will consume much more oxygen than a pulse flow demand type regulator setting. Using a pulse oximeter you can titrate the oxygen flow to your needs. You may find a continuous flow of 1 lpm will maintain the desirable reading of 90% or better on the pulse oximeter.
 
This is a first for me.
I've never seen the words "172" and "scamper" used in the same sentence as subject and verb.
What is that all about?
Oops. Pushed the button too soon.
I flew with a guy 4 years ago who used a portable oxygen concentrator, the kind they give to COPD patients, when he had to go above 12,000/15,000 feet. He bought it "new in the box" from the estate of someone who didn't live long enough to use it.
I was a little skeptical, but it worked great. We were at 24,500 for over two hours, and just passed the cannula back and forth.
It had a lithium battery, and a car type charger plugged in to the aux power out on his panel.
I'm sure the FAA doesn't approve, but then, they aren't at altitude or paying the bills.
 
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24500 on a cannula getting passed around like a bong for a couple hours??? Wow
 
Sounds like a NASA report is due........
 
Matthew Rogers said:
...Any suggestions or concerns in taking a 150 up to 12,000 until it stops climbing? Do things get weird when you approach the service ceiling?
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I've had my mod-heavy PA28-140 to 17500, and nothing "got weird"...I think the service ceiling for a PA28 is lower than a C150.
 
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