Pop Up IFR Clearance

[Steamflyer]

But as you know, there's also a downside with that Delta near say a Bravo or Charlie. If it's that busy, you may be waiting quite a while for that in-air pickup. The "awaiting your release" may be something we are used to hearing on the ground, but the concept of ATC needing to fit you into the system applies in the air too. There's an older Baron Pilot video where he does that and is almost to the destination before he can get his clearance.

Excellent real world strategy when you can maintain VFR until well clear of the busy areas. Less so when you feel you can't.

In 40 years, can only recall one time where picking the clearance up airborne led to a delay. Leaving a private grass strip, in NY Center airspace, asked for the clearance while circling around departure airport VFR (couldn't really proceed due to ceiling and mountains within 20 miles). Multiple calls, overall about 25 minute wait until cleared to climb and proceed on course. ATC apologized and said that there was both a controller change and that they lost the flight plan.

Try getting the clearance on the ground at SMO. Could be 30 or more minutes for a release. But if VFR enough to depart, will get it as soon as contacting ATC. Once based out of an outlying airport near a Class B. Always hoped it would be VFR to pick up IFR in air. Rarely even given a vector away from planned route let alone delayed. So, yes, it's fine to pick up routinely if departing an uncontrolled airport, and sometimes at a controlled one if it's clear there will be a delay. They won't flush the plan as long as you let them know you intend to pick it up airborne.

 

[Plano Pilot]

When I went to Laredo, TX 2 weeks ago, two airplanes requested popup IFR. The controller told them he was too busy and to file with FSS. That would suck.

 

[Steamflyer]

When I went to Laredo, TX 2 weeks ago, two airplanes requested popup IFR. The controller told them he was too busy and to file with FSS. That would suck.

Sounds like a cold call, not a pop up for a plan on file. being sent to FSS or not may also depend on your radio skills in that situation.

 

[flyingron]

The don't hold airspace for you for even a millisecond if they haven't issued you a clearance. "Issued you a clearance" means using the words "Cleared to" while in direct communication with you.

And they've released you if you're on the ground, either directly or via a void time.

 

[Hang 4]

Sounds like a cold call, not a pop up for a plan on file. being sent to FSS or not may also depend on your radio skills in that situation.

I know this came up earlier, but I always thought the definition of a "pop-up" was a pilot flying VFR requesting an IFR without having a flight plan on file?

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

It's a tool just like the rudder. You don't have to use it but some people do.

 

[Steamflyer]

I know this came up earlier, but I always thought the definition of a "pop-up" was a pilot flying VFR requesting an IFR without having a flight plan on file?

Colloquially yes; technically I think no - no flight plan on file is something akin to a cold call. Will ask an ATC friend.

 

[hindsight2020]

Well, ctrl-Fing the 7110.65BB all I find is in chapter 4, where they use the term "pop up" only once, talking about instances when the aircraft being referred to as "pop-up", is asking for an IFR clearance when below MIA/MEA/MVA as the case may be. None of those references imply "pre-filed". There's nothing in there defining pop-up as picking up "a pre-filed clearance inflight".

 

[M20K]

From an ATC standpoint, the 7110 refers to "pop up" as an aircraft with a filed IFR flight plan which picks up the clearance in the air.

Where does it say that in .65? In think you're referring to a "Z" flight plan, where you depart VFR and then at some point into the flight you request your IFR Clearance.

But 99% of the pilots are going to tell you a "pop-up" is when you request an IFR Clearance from ATC and there is no filed flight plan. (Though there is something in AFP where they refer to pop-ups, but I think they're just using the same term.)

Only reference to "pop up" I know of in .65 is in 4-2-8. IFR-VFR AND VFR-IFR FLIGHTS
d. 1. has a Note: Pilots of pop-up aircraft are responsible for terrain and obstacle clearance until reaching minimum instrument altitude (MIA) or minimum en route altitude (MEA). Pilot compliance with an approved FAA procedure or an ATC instruction transfers that responsibility to the FAA; therefore, do not assign (or imply) specific course guidance that will (or could) be in effect below the MIA or MEA.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Where does it say that in .65

You found the reference.

I don’t think that phrasing makes any distinction over whether the VFR aircraft has an IFR flight plan already on file or not. “Pop-up” is not defined.

I think you are correct. It doesn’t matter.