Please critique my avionics choices

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MountainDude

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MountainDude
Hi all.
I just bought a 1976 Cessna 182P with all original instruments.

Please note:
- I am a VFR pilot only and have zero interest in IR
- I mostly fly XC flights (been to Alaska and Caribbean, plan a lot more of that)
- I have SkyBeacon and Stratus 3 form my ADS-B (they both work great)
- I use FlyQ EFB (love it)

I plan to install:
PMA-6000B audio panel/intercom
GNC255A (primary Nav/Com)
GTR225 (second Com)
TruTrak AutoPilot
Garmin Aera 660 (in panel) to drive TruTrak
Insight G2 engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp

Would you do anything differently?
Thank you
 
I have the first two items on your list and they work great.

When I started training just over two years ago, I made the same statement "I'll never fly IFR". I just passed my IFR Practical last Saturday. I'd just think carefully about something with a WAAS GPS vs Aera, or at least have an upgrade path if you change your mind.

Only other thing to maybe add is a way to add an Ipad for additional situational awareness. Could be as simple as building a Stratux for $100 or getting an Ipad with GPS
 
Hang 4 said:
I have the first two items on your list and they work great.

When I started training just over two years ago, I made the same statement "I'll never fly IFR". I just passed my IFR Practical last Saturday. I'd just think carefully about something with a WAAS GPS vs Aera, or at least have an upgrade path if you change your mind.

Only other thing to maybe add is a way to add an Ipad for additional situational awareness. Could be as simple as building a Stratux for $100 or getting an Ipad with GPS
Click to expand...

Thanks. I currently use my iPhone as an EFB. There is no room for an iPad, and there is no need either.
I have been flying VFR for 10 years and 600 hrs and want to continue flying VFR.
Cheers
 
I know you said you have no interest in IR but I would add a second Nav for a back up.

And I think he was meaning ADS-B in. Its always nice to have traffic and weather on a device.

Otherwise seems like a nice VFR set up to me. The TT will make life so much easier for you.
 
simtech said:
And I think he was meaning ADS-B in. Its always nice to have traffic and weather on a device.

Otherwise seems like a nice VFR set up to me. The TT will make life so much easier for you.
Click to expand...

ADSB in was exactly what I meant. WX and Traffic is a big help, particularly VFR. Agree that looks like a good setup.
 
Hang 4 said:
Only other thing to maybe add is a way to add an Ipad for additional situational awareness. Could be as simple as building a Stratux for $100 or getting an Ipad with GPS
Click to expand...

The OP said he had a Stratus 3, why would he need a Stratux too?
 
What OBS are you going to use with the GNC255A? If it was me I think I would ditch the Aera 660 and GNC255A and go with a GNC355...
 
idahoflier said:
What OBS are you going to use with the GNC255A? If it was me I think I would ditch the Aera 660 and GNC255A and go with a GNC355...
Click to expand...
GNC355 is too expensive and unnecessary for me. I dont fly IFR.
 
Salty said:
It’s not that much more, and it’s quite a bit more capable, even for VFR.
Click to expand...

Can you please tell me what it can do for VFR flying? It is ~$2400 more. Not sure how much more is the install. However, if I buy it, I will not buy the Aera 660. Thank you.
 
MountainDude said:
Can you please tell me what it can do for VFR flying? It is ~$2400 more. Not sure how much more is the install. However, if I buy it, I will not buy the Aera 660. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I think the GNC355 screen is smaller than the 660. You might want to double check. And the GNC355 is $7000 list vs $2100 list for the GTR225 it would replace (neither are VOR/LOC capable).

But if you are putting in the Air Gizmo panel mount, that will leave a good bit of room if a GTN650 happens to fall in your lap.

Also, you could hide a GDL50 somewhere and get FIS/TIS on the 660. Maybe get a few bucks selling the Stratus to offset the cost. It would be good use what's already in the panel rather than the phone on the yoke.

Edit: just noticed that you plan to install a PMA6000. Is it a fresh install? Or is it a slide-in? If a fresh install, have you looked at the PAR200a or PAR200b?
 
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asicer said:
I think the GNC355 screen is smaller than the 660. You might want to double check. And the GNC355 is $7000 list vs $2100 list for the GTR225 it would replace (neither are VOR/LOC capable).

But if you are putting in the Air Gizmo panel mount, that will leave a good bit of room if a GTN650 happens to fall in your lap.

Also, you could hide a GDL50 somewhere and get FIS/TIS on the 660. Maybe get a few bucks selling the Stratus to offset the cost. It would be good use what's already in the panel rather than the phone on the yoke.

Edit: just noticed that you plan to install a PMA6000. Is it a fresh install? Or is it a slide-in? If a fresh install, have you looked at the PAR200a or PAR200b?
Click to expand...

Sorry, no idea what air gizmo is.
GTN650 is not going to happen.
I love my Stratus/iPhone/FlyQ combo. Would not want to replace it with anything.
I dont know how PMA6000 will go in (I will ask), but will check out the two you mentioned.
Thank you
 
MountainDude said:
Hi all.
I just bought a 1976 Cessna 182P with all original instruments.

Please note:
- I am a VFR pilot only and have zero interest in IR
- I mostly fly XC flights (been to Alaska and Caribbean, plan a lot more of that)
- I have SkyBeacon and Stratus 3 form my ADS-B (they both work great)
- I use FlyQ EFB (love it)

I plan to install:
PMA-6000B audio panel/intercom
GNC255A (primary Nav/Com)
GTR225 (second Com)
TruTrak AutoPilot
Garmin Aera 660 (in panel) to drive TruTrak
Insight G2 engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp

Would you do anything differently?
Thank you
Click to expand...

The 182P is certified. This means your 660 (portable) can’t legally drive TruTrack for a certified airplane for IFR purposes.

I love the 660 and it does a lot for the price. I recommend the Garmin 355 instead of the 225 or go with the GTN 650 instead of the 255. I ran into this same issue in my Cessna 310.

I went with the GTN 650, Garmin 225, and Aera 660 tied to the GDL51. That gave me XM and ADSB as well as a lot of options should I lose all electronics. The 660 and GDL51 run on batteries as a backup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MountainDude said:
Can you please tell me what it can do for VFR flying? It is ~$2400 more. Not sure how much more is the install. However, if I buy it, I will not buy the Aera 660. Thank you.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I’m not certain of the 660s capabilities and I wasn’t able to find the information with a quick search.
I’m under the impression that the 660 wouldn’t exchange flight plan info with your iPad/phone app, while the 355 can (the 660 can exchange with a 355, but that’s different, so I’m not sure, it may be capable)
I’m also under the impression that it can’t do gpss to the autopilot, it only does heading, but again, I can’t confirm so I may be wrong.
The 355 map data integrates tightly with the built in comm, which is handy, but maybe not worth $2400 to you.
And last, it gives you or the next owner the option of adding a couple of G5’s some day and having a very capable IFR plane.
 
MountainDude said:
Sorry, no idea what air gizmo is.
Click to expand...
As pastaman says, it's a dock that mounts to your panel so that you can quickly snap the 660 in or out as needed. Furthermore, it's sized so that it can bolt into your radio stack, hence my comment about reserving space for a future upgrade.
I love my Stratus/iPhone/FlyQ combo. Would not want to replace it with anything.
Click to expand...
You already need a 660 for the TruTrak and are planning on mounting it on the panel. And if you use the Air Gizmo it will be in the radio stack. Adding a GDL50 or even a used GDL39 simply allows the 660 to display ADS-B traffic and/or weather. That could still be useful, say if you are checking weather on your iPhone when you get a traffic call, you can simply look up at the 660 instead of switching screens on the iPhone. You'd simply be supplementing your existing combo, not replacing it.
I dont know how PMA6000 will go in (I will ask), but will check out the two you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Are you not interested in stereo sound? Bluetooth? Automatic squelch?
 
Keep in mind the 182P is a near ideal IFR platform. Not having an IFR certified GPS harms the value of the aircraft. It’s likely worth it to install a legal IFR GPS in your consideration.

Many are looking towards Garmin 375 ADS-B/WAAS GPS transponder for applications like this. You will also gain ability for ADS-B In for the iPad too.
 
MountainDude said:
GNC355 is too expensive and unnecessary for me. I dont fly IFR.
Click to expand...
Understood, VFR only. Like others have pointed out you may upgrade in the future, but if not no worries, I just think it's more capable/looks better and if you were to sell your aircraft would be more valuable. When I looked the price delta appeared to be around $1,400.00 and unless you already have the 660 then it's around $700...
 
idahoflier said:
When I looked the price delta appeared to be around $1,400.00 and unless you already have the 660 then it's around $700.
Click to expand...
What numbers did you use to compute the delta? I show a GNC355 list price of $7000 and a GTR225 list price of $2100. Add in a 660 list price of $750 and I get $4150 Delta.
 
The PAR200B and GTR225 will give you two coms and and intercom. Why go with a GNC255 NAV/COM if you are VFR? And your Aera 660 will not drive your Auto Pilot in your Certified 182, A Garman GPS175 will connect to your AutoPilot, and installed without an indicator it is VFR, with a path for IFR in the future at resale. The Aera 660 mounted to your yoke will connect with the GPS175 thru bluetooth so you can then change your flight plan on the yoke and send it to the GPS175 that will control your TruTrack.
Screen Shot 2019-11-14 at 10.21.20 PM.png
 
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MountainDude said:
Thanks. I currently use my iPhone as an EFB. There is no room for an iPad, and there is no need either.
I have been flying VFR for 10 years and 600 hrs and want to continue flying VFR.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Then a nav/com and a pencil will work.
I think that you are getting good advice. But, You already seem to know everything. Makes me wonder why you asked the question.
 
c177tx said:
The PAR200B and GTR225 will give you two coms and and intercom. Why go with a GNC255 NAV/COM if you are VFR? And your Aera 660 will not drive your Auto Pilot in your Certified 182, A Garman GPS175 will connect to your AutoPilot, and installed without an indicator it is VFR, with a path for IFR in the future at resale. The Aera 660 mounted to your yoke will connect with the GPS175 thru bluetooth so you can then change your flight plan on the yoke and send it to the GPS175 that will control your TruTrack.
View attachment 79719
Click to expand...


Aera 660 is on the approved GPS interface list for TruTrak…

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2151/0625/files/Approved_GPS_List_Rev_E_186.pdf?198

VFR only? No sense in buying a panel mounted WAAS/LPV Navigator.
 
asicer said:
What numbers did you use to compute the delta? I show a GNC355 list price of $7000 and a GTR225 list price of $2100. Add in a 660 list price of $750 and I get $4150 Delta.
Click to expand...

Looks like I used incorrect numbers! But I would add the GNC355 in place of the GNC255A not the GTR225. In any case using those numbers the delta is $1,687...
 
Is there a specific reason you want a Nav radio for VFR-only flight? I fly VFR and IFR and have not used my Nav since I finished my instrument rating. I am only putting a Nav receiver in my homebuilt as insurance for GPS outages, and it was a major struggle to make that decision because the only use would be for GPS outages. I couldn't find an airport I wanted to go to that had significantly lower minimums for the ILS than the GPS approach to the same runway.

Same question for the second radio: What is your reason for wanting it? I fly a lot of VFR using a single radio with the capability of monitoring a second frequency. My plane with two Comm radios doesn't have that feature, so I use the second radio to listen to ATIS/AWOS and to monitor Guard on long cross-countries. I could easily live without it if I had standby monitoring on the primary radio.

As an airplane shopper, I would rather see a 182 that is equipped for GPS-only IFR than one that has a Nav radio. I think that the only hope of recovering part of your avionics investment is to maximize the target market of your airplane in the event you decide to sell it. No, you don't plan to sell it today, but if you can make this asset more readily liquidated you will have a little bit more buffer against unforeseen lifestyle changes.

You may prefer using the Aera to an IFR GPS. I haven't used an Aera 660.

What I would look into doing is a GNC 355A ($7,700) and Aera 660 ($750) with cross-fill, and leave room in the panel for a GTR 200 ($1,200) if you can't afford to put it in now. Drive the autopilot from the GNC 355 to make it easier to use under IFR. (You can save $700 by using the GNC 355 without 8.33kHz channel spacing, but I assume you need that.)

This comes to $9,650 in radios if you get them all now. The list price of what you are thinking about is $4,500 for the GNC 255A, $2,100 for the GTR 225, and the same $750 for the Aero 660. The total is $7,350. The list price delta is $2,300 and the capability delta is an IFR GPS instead of a a Nav receiver. It's your money and you should spend it to make yourself happy. But I do think you will get the $2,300 back if you ever sell the plane due to the huge increase in IFR capability, which will find more buyers as well as justify a higher sales price.

Note: I assume you have and are keeping either a two-needle CDI or an HSI in the plane, to be driven by either the GNC 255 or the GNC 355. I also assume you have and are keeping your standard six-pack instruments.
 
idahoflier said:
Yes, but is that needed or required?
Click to expand...
Yeah, good point. The more I think about it the more I think the OP should either go real world IFR or go all-in VFR. All-in VFR means no VOR/LOC and no RNAV, so that leaves
  • the 660 (to drive the TruTrak)
  • a GTR225
  • either a PAR200 or a second GTR200.
And even then, the COM2 is on the bubble since the GTR225 has standby monitor capability.
 
bnt83 said:
Aera 660 is on the approved GPS interface list for TruTrak…

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2151/0625/files/Approved_GPS_List_Rev_E_186.pdf?198
Click to expand...

I understood that a handheld GPS could not be connected to an Autopilot in a Certified Aircraft without a field approval. If they can that would be great, and I agree that if OP is going for VFR only, then an Aera 660 connected to a Trutrack, and a PS PAR200b intercom/radio (no need for and audio panel) with a handheld backup radio.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Then a nav/com and a pencil will work.
I think that you are getting good advice. But, You already seem to know everything. Makes me wonder why you asked the question.
Click to expand...
I definitely dont know everything. In fact, I know very little about avionics. These were the suggestions by the nearby avionics shop, and I wanted to see what this community thought of it before I drop the cash.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
But when it comes time to sell, the next prospective owner probably will be.
Click to expand...
Depends on how long the OP keeps the plane. If he holds on to it long enough, that GNC355 he didn't buy could be obsolete by then.
 
Would the Dynon HDX be a meaningful alternative when it gets STC'ed next year?
 
The rub is there's always some promising bit of kit that's supposed to be STCd next year. At some point you gotta make a decision.

And yes, the Dynon does look nice.
 
iamtheari said:
Is there a specific reason you want a Nav radio for VFR-only flight?
Click to expand...

The small amount of extra money today for Nav/Com over just Com will protect resale much greater than the savings he's getting today. Most people buying a 182P expect the awesome IFR platform to be IFR capable.
 
NordicDave said:
The small amount of extra money today for Nav/Com over just Com will protect resale much greater than the savings he's getting today. Most people buying a 182P expect the awesome IFR platform to be IFR capable.
Click to expand...
Depends on how long the OP keeps it. For example, how much more would you pay for a 182 with a Narco NAV-12 versus one that doesn't?
 
NordicDave said:
The small amount of extra money today for Nav/Com over just Com will protect resale much greater than the savings he's getting today. Most people buying a 182P expect the awesome IFR platform to be IFR capable.
Click to expand...
The OP started off with the premise that money spent on IFR capabilities are wasted for him. Assuming that a dollar spent on IFR capability is truly a waste, why would he want a VOR receiver?

The rest of my post was dedicated to the premise that money spent on real-world IFR capabilities (approach-certified WAAS GPS) was better both for the OP's use and for the marketability of his plane if he sells it.
 
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