I've nearly completed my PPL. Looking for the right airplane to purchase. Weekly round trip Denver to Wichita (360nm one way) PPL in PA-28s Not keen on experimental (crashed twice as kid, one of which killed Dad) Will fly VFR until IFR obtained I'm tall. Short legs, long torso. Like, extra long. Willing to sacrifice speed for comfort within reason Will drive Tesla when can't fly Can drive in Tesla on "autopilot" in 8 hours, so flight time 3.5 hours or less? Headwinds Wichita to Denver can be considerable Anything <120 knots doesn't make much sense to me. Am I wrong? I enjoy flying and time building ok, but looking to SAVE SOME TIME when possible Budget for plane is flexible, 75k - 225k. 100k and under I could pay cash. Over would require financing and monthly payment eating into costs. Operating costs matter. Hangar space in Denver is rough. I could manage annual costs of 30k (Hangars in Denver are $500/mo and up) I've considered 182s, Cherokee 6, Cirrus SR20, Mooney, Bonanza, Socata TB20, Cardinal, PA-28-235. I know, I go round and round and round. Not sure about RG. Seems like insurance and maintenance prohibitive. Need some help here!! Thanks in advance for thoughts.
Welcome! Tall & skinny or tall & thick? Solo? Baggage? Low operating costs.... Sounds like a perfect mission for a mooney. How comfortable were you in the pa28? Maybe an arrow. Those are about the only options under 100k these days.
Look at a later model C-177 Cardinal. You might have a headroom issue. Straight leg will be 120 - 125 knots. Looking at low 6 figures.
Tall and skinny. Wide shoulders and hips but not heavy. No baggage to speak of. I'm basically a commuter.
Bumping head (with headset) in older PA-28. New Archer LX headroom is better. Don't bump head but can't afford.
I keep coming back to the Mooney but worried about headroom. I guess I need to find a way to go sit in one and find out!!
The Mooney is not a bad idea. I have issues with comfort in planes and while I'm not a fan of the tight shoulder room there is plenty of legroom in the Mooney
You do. I was shocked. They're narrow, so at my 6'4"/270 it felt tight, but it was the width, not the hight. You have to scoot the seat way up to reach the rudder pedals. I think a 7 footer could fit if he was skinny. The seat leans back too. It's kind of a sports car seating position. The panel and yoke are kind of up in your face too, so it's not for everybody, but the performance for the money is hard to beat.
Been a long time since I flew a Mooney M20J but I don’t recall headroom being an issue. What did take a little bit of adjustment was the sports car style seating position. As I recall, other than the unique control forces on rotation, I enjoyed the way it flew. Would love to fly the more modern, more powerful ones. To the OP, I’d say with that winter headwind back into Denver you should shoot for an airplane with at least 135 knots true minimum.
As a mooney owner, I'd say "no" for this guy and a mooney...he has the exact opposite body type for a mooney.
If you're flying by yourself, Rockwell, 112, is the cheaper one in your budget. Even can be had with a turbo for your home field elevation. Tons of room, within your speed requirement too.
Im 6’2”, 280 lbs. I don’t rub elbows with the right seater. I can’t reach the rudders with the seat full back. Two doors, and you get to step up into your own seat, not climb down and around someone else’s. Cessna 210. Look at a Turbo 210. Huge inside, carries lots, fast. No problems on hot days in Denver or Wichita. No wind, about 2 + 30. Can easily do 180 mph true at 60% power.
I flew in a 210 once. Liked it a lot but was worried as a low time pilot that it's a lot of plane for me to handle. And that big engine and RG might be a maintenance problem. Maybe I should rethink that?
I found a guy at KAPA with a Mooney who said the same thing. He's going to take me up soon so we'll find out!
Going to be a tough trip commuting especially in the fall spring and winter without IFR. Unless loads of flexibility. Going to be a tough trip IFR in the fall spring and winter without known ice certification. So if you want to do that trip 52X2 104 times a year??? I am thinking a FIKI Cirrus is probably the lowest cost point of entry. Otherwise, too often the trip out or the trip back is going to exceed the pilot or the planes capability.
Yeah, they are a tough find...look under both "Rockwell" and "Commander", as they are sometimes filed under each (sometimes on the same classified page)...trade-a-plane shows 2 under Commander and 3 under Rockwell right now.
First, kudos for your perseverance despite previous negative experiences. Few people would do what you are doing. I lost a close family member in a crash too, but it was after I was a pilot. Second, I am tall (6-3) with most of the height in my torso too. When I woke up from gall bladder surgery I had an extra incision b/c the surgeon said he could not reach my gall bladder from the normal incision point. Third, add Grumman Tiger/Cheetah to your list for consideration. You'll probably fit in the cockpit fine; you'll have to decide if they are fast enough for you. Not alot of inventory out there now though. Fourth, is it a M-F commute, or something less? If the plane will really spend more time in Wichita, maybe get the hangar there and pay for parking on the weekends in Denver?
Exceeding pilot or plane capability has been on my mind for a while. Thanks for the perspective! I'm sure I'll be stuck flying commercial some of the time. This is also likely to be 250+ hours a year. I'm not experienced enough to know how much of a toll that takes.
Thank you for the kind acknowledgment and shared experience. The 5B is one I've been considering. Not the fastest option but I'm solo most of the time and it could work. Interesting idea re the hangar. The commute is really a 3 days in Denver working and 4 days at home in Wichita. Hangar at both would be great (and expensive). Maybe Wichita would be a smarter choice. Definitely cheaper.
In the end, it’s an airplane. It takes more rudder than you’re used to on takeoff. It can fly faster than you’re used to at altitude, and especially in the descent. You learn to think ahead of the airplane by starting down earlier, watching your descent rate, and slowing to a “normal” pattern speed before you get there. You find a good cfi and develop good habit patterns for gear and flaps and you’ll love the airplane. It’s very stable and like all Cessnas, predictable. If you buy a well maintained airplane, whatever it’s pedigree, rg or not, you probably won’t run into any more Mx problems than you might in that Cherokee. Good luck. Fly safe.
Whatever you settle on, make sure you can get insurance. Seems like retracts are getting hard to insure for low time pilots.
Only vfr pilot here so fwiw: As a low time PPL i bet you'll max out at 15 trips per year. Even with vfr wx, high crosswinds can thwart a trip. Same for mx downtime and just not feeling 100% on certain days. If you have lots of flexibility like you can shift or delay 2...5 days your dispatch will be better. That is far enough that its almost always 2 wx systems. To double that dispatch a fiki SR22 or 210 or Bonanza would probably be great. Plus less time slogging it out in the headwinds back to Denver. And all 3 good for your summer high DA. Only the sr22 is fixed gear but most expensive.
I don't think I've ever recommended a Mooney to anyone, but it kind of makes sense here, if you're comfortable in it. Because you haven't mentioned payload or carrying 2 or more people with you. Because speed matters to you. The Mooney probably goes faster than the rest, and faster with less gas than many, too. I love the Pipers, but they're draggy. Finally, based on your past experience, pretty sure at least some of the Mooney's have steel tube frame.
All of the Mooney’s have a steel tube frame. I’ve got a turbo M20F which will do that, or the M20K and the others will do it too. And operating costs at $7 per gallon beat most others (10k, 9 GPH, 150TAS). But, agree with others, this is FIKI and probably twin engine territory if you really want to dispatch 104 times a year.
Personally, if I were going to try this, I would probably try it in a Turbo C-182. They are pretty roomy, carry a good load, fixed gear and would work for your DA.
THe SR20 or 22 would be brilliant but so expensive. I was honestly thinking 25-40 trips/year would be about right. I never really considered that 15 might be the number. Turbo might make sense with the DA and the fact that I might want to go west at some point. West from Denver means big, tall rocks to fly over. Thanks all for the insight. I love how this conversation is more about the pilot and less about the aircraft. I'm sure I'll be the limiting factor for a while!!! Please continue to weigh in if you have an opinion. I'll be trying to figure this out over the next several months.
Not intended as a troll question - are there reasonable anti-ice kits for piston singles, and if there are, do they have a reasonable value add? Asking because my quick google search came up with solutions that weren't FIKI and were almost the differential in cost between a single and a twin.
The insurance on a twin (unless you have 250+ hours in twins) is far more than a fiki kit would cost. I’m not even sure they’d write you an owner policy these days without 250 hours. I asked about it to my broker when I was shopping and it made twins a non starter for me.
