Plane crashes off Boca Raton

172andyou said:
There is a 100% chance I've flown in swim ware. If that had included a cover-up, there is another 100% chance I'd ditch it to swim more effectively if I needed to.
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And why wouldn't you? Pretty sure I have. Flew to Marsh Harbor Bahamas several years in a row. Standard flight IL direct KFPR fuel up spend the night then next morning direct MYAM. Now if can't check in till 2pm we want to go to the beach .. thus wear beach clothes, swim trunks etc flight over. Gotta maximize that vacation time.

PS: didn't wear life jackets on flight over(do airline passengers?) but they were handy.
 
ateamer said:
I’m in Florida and have been known to fly wearing just a pair of shorts, and toss my flip-flops behind the seat.
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This ^^^ but kept flip-flops in front of seat. I certainly hope you did a W&B on those behind the seat flip-flops ... this forum will roast you if you end up ditching. :oops:
 
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So. She had landing gear problems, then engine problems, then electrical? In that order? Then the bullseye landing avoiding tall buildings and surfers! I hope to see this made for TV movie really soon because this is better than Apollo 13!

Since daddy owns the flying company and the airplane, there's gonna be a lot of questions.

I'm just guessing she never did a preflight because that's what her minions are for.
 
I looked at my PA-30 POH trying to remember if the landing gear was tied to a bus primarily fed by one engine's alternator or generator. Doesn't look like it but her model is probably not covered by my POH edition anyways.
 
172andyou said:
There is a 100% chance I've flown in swim ware. If that had included a cover-up, there is another 100% chance I'd ditch it to swim more effectively if I needed to.
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Thanks for the confirmation of what I've seen for years.
 
172andyou said:
There is a 100% chance I've flown in swim ware.
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I'm pretty sure I flew wearing swim trunks too.

But I feel like that wasn't really the defining feature of this flight. The whole "my landing gear won't extend after 1 engine went out so I'm going to fly away from the airport and crash into the ocean" is what I think most people find interesting. The swimwear is just icing on the coincidental cake :)!
 
172andyou said:
I don't live near a coast either. But I've flown around them plenty of times. Including Florida to Bahamas trips.

There is a 100% chance I've flown in swim ware. If that had included a cover-up, there is another 100% chance I'd ditch it to swim more effectively if I needed to.

I'm going flying shortly and there is a 100% chance I'll be wearing shorts and a t-shirt because it's hot AF in Texas right now.
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Alternatively… it sounds like she may have felt more comfortable in the water with an emergency than sliding around concrete with no landing gear. Shocker…

And never really saw a tux on anyone heading to the ultra formal BAHAMAS… Is that really a different country? Really? It’s not an international category for airline pilots. Just sayin…

She might have had 10,000 hrs, but it seems fairly confirmed she was TWENTY THREE… her frontal lobes have not fused yet.

So a water culture girl, wore a bikini, and didn’t have a life raft when not required to go what, 50 miles, in a fast airplane to Margaritaville… who probably water skis and surfs fearlessly in shark infested waters, chose that over a 100 mph trek down a concrete runway with no landing gear.

Oh oh oh, and while single engine messed up a fairly complicated emergency gear extension.

Wanna see what I watch the nation’s brightest screw up in a SIMULATOR?!!! EVERY DAY??

This may be crooked, but not based on what’s reported, by the not so trustworthy reporters.
 
Lindberg said:
Yes, reading is fundamental. According to her own statement, she had on a skirt over a bikini. So she was very much wearing a bikini. And a cover-up. Your reaction seems extreme given what's been written here. Are you a friend of hers?
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I don't know her. Neither do all the guys lipping off about how much better they would have done without knowing what the situation actually was. Maybe she could have made a better decision. No one was hurt so maybe it was exactly the right thing to do. None of us actually know. The level of self aggrandizing by putting down a young pilot is what spurred my "extreme" reaction.
 
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I will admit the possibility of burning up on the ground is my biggest fear about this hobby. I’ve given it way too much thought the point of even considered various mechanisms to get rid of fuel or neutralize fuel in an emergency. I’m aware that the data might suggest the gear up on the runway is a safe option. I don’t think I would have any interest in putting my 172 down in one of the upstate lakes. That said, I could see miles and miles of calm coastline an attractive option once fire is in the back of your mind.

I’m not a multi pilot, a previous post here mentions the emergency gear extension speed is close to VMC. From my internet POV many CFI‘s approached this from a position of fear.
 
Bacho said:
I’m not a multi pilot, a previous post here mentions the emergency gear extension speed is close to VMC. From my internet POV many CFI‘s approached this from a position of fear.
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The previous post says emergency extension speed is below 100mph. The Google says that VMC is 80mph.
Jjackh01 said:
I don't know her. Neither do all the guys lipping off about how much better they would have done without knowing what the situation actually was.
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I don't have a multi rating, or a complex endorsement, or her experience, or a Citation rating. So I don't have any idea how much better I would have done. But I can still be surprised by someone who does have all that saying, "Screw safely landing at an airport, I'm going in the ocean."
 
I don't know how accurate this is, but here's the flightaware track: https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N40439
She says she first planned to land at BCT, but switched to the ocean when her gear would not come down. According to the track, she did overfly BCT at 5,000ft, and then make a turn. But the track never shows her descending or getting below normal gear-extension speed, which according to Google is 150mph. She could have had a tail wind, so maybe she was actually a couple of mph under that, but never by much, and she never entered a pattern or descended near the airport.
 
Lindberg said:
I don't know how accurate this is, but here's the flightaware track: https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N40439
She says she first planned to land at BCT, but switched to the ocean when her gear would not come down. According to the track, she did overfly BCT at 5,000ft, and then make a turn. But the track never shows her descending or getting below normal gear-extension speed, which according to Google is 150mph. She could have had a tail wind, so maybe she was actually a couple of mph under that, but never by much, and she never entered a pattern or descended near the airport.
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That’s also where the track ends. It’s incomplete data, that doesn’t show whether or not she made further attempts to and there. There are reports of total electrical failure, which may be what the problem with the gear was and why the track stops there, but you know how the Internet is on such things.

Edit, the news report says she crashed landed just before 10:30 AM. It appears to last FlightAware track ended just after 9:30 AM. There is a lot of flying unaccounted for if that’s the case.
 
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wanttaja said:
Ummm...want to tell us where you got that X-Ray vision? How do you *know* that all the women you see aren't wearing swimwear under their street clothes?

As an engineer, I'm certainly no expert on women's underclothing. But I fail to see the "operational" difference between a bikini bottom and a pair of panties.

Ron Wanttaja
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No x-ray vision needed as it's pretty obvious in most cases. I'm in NC as my name shows, I fly up and down the east coast regularly, with may FBO visits in FL as a part of my travels. I just don't see people dressed like this. Instead of x-ray vision maybe I'm going blind. As I said before I really don't care what she, or anyone else for that matter, wear traveling. I get it's hot AF and most of us don't have AC. I'll just wait for more on this story to come out, and it will.
 
Bacho said:
That’s also where the track ends. It’s incomplete data, that doesn’t show whether or not she made further attempts to and there. There are reports of total electrical failure, which may be what the problem with the gear was and why the track stops there, but you know how the Internet is on such things.

Edit, the news report says she crashed landed just before 10:30 AM. It appears to last FlightAware track ended just after 9:30 AM. There is a lot of flying unaccounted for if that’s the case.
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I would not trust a news report to have a good timestamp

Believe there were realtime videos, however, which could resolve such.
 
Look at all the lives she saved!!! She's a hero!

I'm gonna say that she is lying and seeking attention. Or she didn't do a preflight (you know, daddy takes care of everything) and either fuel starvation or contamination. Just an excuse to make a dramatic forced landing.

I got suspicious of her comments of "saving lives" by avoiding people and buildings. The aircraft was still producing power.

I'm not backing off on this one.

The aircraft was still flyable and her response was to literally crash it and run to the media
 

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GLMS_NC said:
No x-ray vision needed as it's pretty obvious in most cases. I'm in NC as my name shows, I fly up and down the east coast regularly, with may FBO visits in FL as a part of my travels. I just don't see people dressed like this. Instead of x-ray vision maybe I'm going blind. As I said before I really don't care what she, or anyone else for that matter, wear traveling. I get it's hot AF and most of us don't have AC. I'll just wait for more on this story to come out, and it will.
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If in fact she was going to Bimini and Customs and Immigration it’s best to dress modestly.
 
FlightmechH3 said:
Look at all the lives she saved!!! She's a hero!

I'm gonna say that she is lying and seeking attention. Or she didn't do a preflight (you know, daddy takes care of everything) and either fuel starvation or contamination. Just an excuse to make a dramatic forced landing.

I got suspicious of her comments of "saving lives" by avoiding people and buildings. The aircraft was still producing power.

I'm not backing off on this one.

The aircraft was still flyable and her response was to literally crash it and run to the media
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I actually checked the POH for that aircraft and she followed the procedures exactly.
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(but again in all seriousness, I am glad no one was injured... just the airplane)
 
Bacho said:
I’m not a multi pilot, a previous post here mentions the emergency gear extension speed is close to VMC. From my internet POV many CFI‘s approached this from a position of fear.
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I'm not a multi-pilot either but in the EA-6B you could get in a situation if you needed to blow the gear down using the emergency extension and had a no flap/slat configuration you couldn't get to gear speed without stalling. To resolve it we would fly a ballistic arc and push to zero AoA and blow the gear well below stall speed then coast down and get back above stall. Might be fun to try in a multi-engine piston with an engine out. :p
 
Pugs said:
I'm not a multi-pilot either but in the EA-6B you could get in a situation if you needed to blow the gear down using the emergency extension and had a no flap/slat configuration you couldn't get to gear speed without stalling. To resolve it we would fly a ballistic arc and push to zero AoA and blow the gear well below stall speed then coast down and get back above stall. Might be fun to try in a multi-engine piston with an engine out. :p
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Are there many light twins where gear extension speed is below the clean stall speed?
 
@Jjackh01 since you're so very put out by anyone being surprised that an apparently competent aviator would intentionally choose the ocean over an airport, can you provide any other example of this or some reference where this idea might have originated from?
 
Pugs said:
I'm not a multi-pilot either but in the EA-6B you could get in a situation if you needed to blow the gear down using the emergency extension and had a no flap/slat configuration you couldn't get to gear speed without stalling. To resolve it we would fly a ballistic arc and push to zero AoA and blow the gear well below stall speed then coast down and get back above stall. Might be fun to try in a multi-engine piston with an engine out. :p
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... while wearing a bikini or speedo. ;)
 
Lindberg said:
@Jjackh01 since you're so very put out by anyone being surprised that an apparently competent aviator would intentionally choose the ocean over an airport, can you provide any other example of this or some reference where this idea might have originated from?
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Love the passive aggressive tone. "were all just surprised by it", I'm not buying it. I'm "put out" by keyboard warriors talking trash about things they don't know. Again you weren't there, and the few details available mostly come from the media. But y'all don't let lack of data get in the way of forming an opinion and poking at her. Regardless of your opinion, the outcome of this event came out no different than if she had landed at an airport. A totaled old twin and everybody safe.
 
Well, to be fair, we don’t know if it would have come out the same at an airport.

It’s clear she was adverse to it, that would likely affect performance.
 
She was pretty well trained. Commercial, multi, instrument, and type rated. Her training included, in the plane and/or sim, emergency ops procedures, gear malfunctions, single engine ops, pressurization loss, etc. Below is what the FAA shows for her.


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And the primary factor...again...is that she is alive and unhurt. She walked (well, swam) away from it. Meets the definition of a good landing, if not a great one.

You can bet the insurance company is popping the bubbly and toasting right now; they'd rather pay for a 50-year-old twin than any sort of personal injury suit.

Ron Wanttaja
 
GLMS_NC said:
She was pretty well trained. Commercial, multi, instrument, and type rated. Her training included, in the plane and/or sim, emergency ops procedures, gear malfunctions, single engine ops, pressurization loss, etc. Below is what the FAA shows for her.


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An SIC type rating says almost nothing about training, and we have no evidence of pressurization or landing gear malfunction training.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Climb to safe altitude, pull second engine to idle, glide at a safe gear drop speed (even if below blue line), then increase speed above blue line and add power to the good engine?
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Not a bad idea, just need to keep in mind it's gonna take a while to climb to altitude with an engine out.

Lindberg said:
Are there many light twins where gear extension speed is below the clean stall speed?
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Approximately zero.
 
MauleSkinner said:
An SIC type rating says almost nothing about training, and we have no evidence of pressurization or landing gear malfunction training.
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I agree on the SIC type. We do know that she did not have a pressurization failure. :)
 
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