Piper cherokee 140 fair price??

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Zach Smith, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    Found a cherokee 140 not exactly what I think I want but the price seems right at 24k ifr good til September of 2021. 3558 ttaf and 1550 smoh on O320. My goal is to travel weekends back home 200 miles 1 way. I'm still completing ppl but at 10k in rental fees. I just think I'd be money ahead long term. Open to hearing thoughts. Thanks in advance 20200620_213003_2.jpg 20200620_213054_2.jpg
     
  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,652
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    That seems like a fair price based on what little info you’ve supplied.
     
  3. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    What all would you like to know? Keep in mind idk much and would like all the help I can get on the correct questions to ask
     
  4. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,418
    Location:
    KRDU
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian Flynn
    What is the time on the engine? Corrosion is ok? No damage?
     
  5. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    1558 since major and topped 500 ago
     
  6. trenton

    trenton Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    81
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Trenton
    Go for it. Don't skimp on the pre-purchase inspection. Make sure the inspector isn't friends with the seller.
     
  7. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    Plane is out of state about 500 miles from me. So I will be making calls Monday to find someone to prebuy it
     
  8. trenton

    trenton Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    81
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Trenton
    It's probably obvious, but check on ADS-B, if that's something you'll need.
     
  9. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    18,863
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Gotta love those shotgun panels :rolleyes1::rolleyes1:
     
  10. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    It does have skybeacon adsb
     
  11. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    not sure what a shotgun panel is
     
  12. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    9,958
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Are all the avionics usable? If oil samples were taken over a period of time, get copies. Spend the $5 with the FAA and get the history - 337s, etc. Log books - can you get copies to review in advance? If the current owner will not provide the logbooks during the pre-buy, run away. Run away really fast!
     
  13. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    He has all airframe logs as well as engine logs since new. Told me to just let him know as soon as I have something setup for a prebuy and he will give inspector access to hanger as well as all logs
     
  14. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,418
    Location:
    KRDU
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian Flynn
    Shotgun panel is one with scattered instruments, not arranged in a standard six pack.
     
  15. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    Yeah, that is something that bothers me but again. My plan is to save some more money over the next 6 months and just finish certification and upgrade.
     
  16. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,992
    Location:
    Central NYS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MuseChaser
    Good advice already given, and very fair price assuming no issues. Looks almost exactly like my plane..looked twice to make sure someone hadn't listed it without checking with me! We moved the instruments around to a standard six pack configuration..it's not horrible to do/have done.
     
  17. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Hopewell Jct, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shepherd
    Are you going to try to fly it before you buy it?
    I would certainly recommend it.
    A pre-buy won't pick up things like trim not working or rigging being way off.
    I flew a Cub last week that had a great pre-buy. In the air the trim didn't work at all, and you had to fly the plane with 3 inches of right deflection on the stick to make it fly straight.
     
  18. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,802
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
    Caveat, I am not an A&P. I did own a '74 140 for 18 years and got a lot of enjoyment out of flying it and wrenching on it (under appropriate A&P supervision) - ok, one thing I hated was replacing the p-lead.

    What year is it? 150hp engine? Does it have the mogas STC?

    Have you flown a 140 before? did you like it?

    Does it have the old bowtie yoke? in other words, check on the status of the repetitive ADs (I'm assuming ADs complied with otherwise)

    Useful load? (be aware of the forward CG limit, not just max weight, my 140 was a bit nose-heavy).
     
  19. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,723
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    Have you ask for any input on this aircraft from the mechanic that will maintain/annual it for you yet?
     
  20. brien23

    brien23 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    Oak Harbor
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brien
    500hr top on a 1558hr major sounds like a local overhaul, you don't want this one.
     
  21. brien23

    brien23 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    Oak Harbor
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brien
    If your plan is to save money this is a bad idea, you can't own a plane cheaper than renting one. The break even point on most plane ownership is about 50 hr a year anything less your better off renting.
     
  22. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,652
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    This is very off base, don’t listen to this.
     
    Kenny Phillips and k9medic like this.
  23. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,618
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    Without knowing the background on why the top was done, that's just mere speculation.

    Example: Did an unsuspecting owner use a mechanic who inspected the engine and told him "Gee, those compressions are low (68-70), you better let me remove those cylinders and have them repaired". Or was it an owner who decided on his own he wanted the cylinders repaired?

    We don't know with the information provided. Unfortunately in GA most mechanics place very minimal signoffs in the logbooks that don't tell a complete story.
     
    RyanB likes this.
  24. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    7,708
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    While this is true if you add in fuel/oil insurance, hanger/tie down costs, etc. One can certainly own a plane cheaper than renting when the rental fee equals one monthly payment. This is why I bought my plane to finish my PPL. Rental was $135 + $50 for the instructor per hour. As everyone knows, you don't always fly just an hour in training and you don't do it just once per month.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
    Zach Smith likes this.
  25. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,212
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    For the price, worth investigating further. It could make a nice 1- or 2-paasenger plane for traveling or commuting. The avionics and Narco "audio" panel are a bit dated, and you need to consider if or how ADS-B compliance has been addressed. But if the installed avionics work, it's usable. Pre-owned engines are always a crap shoot. It depends on how well the prior owner(s) took care of it, how often it was flown, and what the quality of the last OH was. This engine could be one you could safely run past TBO with its recent top, or the top could have been an expensive bandaid for a worn engine. Hence do a good prenbuy to understand what you are getting. Have your mechanic go through the logbooks, too. Sometimes they harbor hidden stories, like prop strikes (prop replaced for no obvious reason), ground loops (wing repairs), etc. Cherokees are pretty simple to maintain and operate. First time I flew one in training I decided I really liked low wing aircfraft.

    I almost owned a Cherokee 140 as my first plane...made an offer on a nice one that was attractively priced, did a test flight, scheduled a pre-buy, and the seller backed out. I wound up with a nice Grumman AA-1A instead.
     
  26. Zach Smith

    Zach Smith Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    zach
    It does have adsb out. I've been training in a 172 however I flew a 180 cherokee yesterday and it flew way different. Not sure if its because I'm not familiar with it but a little nose heavy it seemed now I'm a few inexperienced person just my opinion
     
  27. JScarry

    JScarry Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    309
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JScarry
    I had my A&P rearrange my panel so the instruments are in the normal positions relative to each other rather than the shotgun arrangement. It makes it easier to move back and forth to airplanes with the standard six-pack.

    Speaking of which, you can buy this shirt from our EAA store on CafePress.

    Six Pack.png
     
    FormerHangie likes this.
  28. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,212
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    Most Cherokee newbies have a hard time landing properly nose high. You almost have to have the yoke in your belly to gently land nose-high. Like most low wings, they can float a bit in ground effect if your approach speed is too fast. I found the Cherokees easier to land because of the generous ground effect cushion than the 152s and 172s I trained in. Fly by the POH numbers and they are as easy as any light single. The only thing I didn't like about the cherokees is the split windshield. I was really spoiled by the bubble canopy in the AA-1A.
     
  29. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    27,662
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    You schubs worry about shotgun panels way too much. Usually when you own an airplane you don’t go out and rent other people’s airplanes, you fly your own. You quickly get used to whatever you have. My Cherokee had a standard 6 pack. My Mooney not so much. Didn’t really notice.
     
    lblandina and ETres like this.
  30. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,753
    Location:
    Tupelo, MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ktup-flyer
    Lot of time on the engine, but it's cheap. Go for it as long as the prebuy comes back clean. Throw an iPad and ADS-B in in there, and you'll have a good time builder.
     
  31. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,656
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Stan Cooper
    The top photo is the original shotgun panel of my '63 C172D. Below it is the same airplane with an upgraded panel in the standard six-pack configuration. I had learned to fly in a 1963 172D in 1964 and thought the non-standard panel would be OK. Soon after I bought it, I decided it wasn't working and upgraded the panel. This was in the 2000 - 2002 timeframe, and the new panel made a world of difference.

    N2686U Old New Panel.JPG
     
    NHWannabe likes this.
  32. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ATP-H, CMEL, CSEL, CFI/CFII Airplanes and Helicopters
    All this talk about owning and scattered panels but nobody mentions the fact that he is looking to do a 200 mile trip one way.

    In a Cherokee 140 or 151 that is a two hour trip minimum.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  33. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    7,708
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
  34. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,802
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
    That's certainly a good use of 2 hours, a very good use... isn't it?
     
    Jmcmanna and NHWannabe like this.
  35. NHWannabe

    NHWannabe Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    676
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NHWannabe
    Or a 3+ hour trip driving.
     
  36. Jmcmanna

    Jmcmanna Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Southern WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jmcmanna
    If it looks good, go for it...$24K to own an airplane is fantastic, and 200 mile trips are perfect for a 100kt airplane...I plan 2-3 hour legs, so you’re non-stop to get home.

    If you do buy, just be prepared for a major expense right away. My Arrow was 1300 SMOH when I bought it, prebuy was good, and it ran great for three months. A large case crack developed and I suddenly had a huge expense in front of me that I thought I’d have a few years to save up for.
     
  37. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,656
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Stan Cooper
    There are a lot of us here with airplanes having cruise speeds similar to a Cherokee 140 that make two hour flights all the time and consider it much faster, less fatiguing, and a lot more fun than taking twice as long to drive in unpredictable traffic.
     
    Kenny Phillips likes this.
  38. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    992
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sean
    speculation seems to be his specialty, based on the helicopter thread...
     
    Doc Holliday likes this.
  39. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ATP-H, CMEL, CSEL, CFI/CFII Airplanes and Helicopters
    I guess I'm just pessimistic about flying only 200 miles. A 3 hour drive versus a 200 mile flight at 100kts is a wash when you calculate the time to drive to the airport and to preflight.

    In my mind it's hardly worth the time. I'm not discounting that it might be fun and worth the experience.

     
  40. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,802
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
    200 miles by car isn't necessarily 200 miles as the crow flies.
     
    Stan Cooper and NHWannabe like this.