Pilot - Social Experiment

woodstock said:
That sounds creepy.
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Yeah, I can see that it might seem that way but to me it's not the same as physically snooping since it's a public forum. I suspect I'd come clean on the next meeting after reading the posts since is would feel a bit dishonest to continue reading the forum without letting on.
 
gismo said:
That's plausible but personally when I was dating (if I can trust a memory that old) I would have much preferred a physical meeting over a video chat. A big part of one's makeup is how they interact with everyone around them as well as what percentage of their attention they're willing to commit to the person they're on a date with. Skype is so one on one that none of that applies (unless one of the Skype-ees keeps breaking off to converse with someone local. Also I suspect that it's a lot easier to act differently on video than in person but I don't have any evidence or facts to back up that opinion.
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My own miserable dating experience was I'd date whomever I bumped into or set my eyes on. Very unscientific, and unreliable, though I would not for one moment complain about the end result. Back then I wouldn't have needed Skype, but I never went on a blind date in my life.

Were I using the sort of service to which Kimberly has subjected herself I would want to Skype my intended dates, get a good look, have a nice chat, see how it goes. I would rather my potential date get a good look beforehand rather than during and be disappointed. A least with the Skype you are in comfortable surroundings, there is little commitment, and there is a good barrier to deter any potential shenanigans. I am genuinely surprised it isn't part and parcel of the better dating services.
 
Hiperbiper said:
Get married, enjoy the honeymoon, wait for Death.
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Oh, that reminds me: book recommendation!!!

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Logged in to eHarmony. Deleted all photos. Changed words in boxes to say "closed account".

Now I need to call them and turn off the charges to my card. They trick you into three months which is easy to miss if you don't read the fine print.

Next step: I need to contact my dates for this week and let them know I want to cancel.
 
steingar said:
My own miserable dating experience was I'd date whomever I bumped into or set my eyes on. Very unscientific, and unreliable, though I would not for one moment complain about the end result. Back then I wouldn't have needed Skype, but I never went on a blind date in my life.

Were I using the sort of service to which Kimberly has subjected herself I would want to Skype my intended dates, get a good look, have a nice chat, see how it goes. I would rather my potential date get a good look beforehand rather than during and be disappointed. A least with the Skype you are in comfortable surroundings, there is little commitment, and there is a good barrier to deter any potential shenanigans. I am genuinely surprised it isn't part and parcel of the better dating services.
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I think Match might have a video thing but I'm not sure. I don't have a webcam and so this would have not been an option for me. Plus I would need to have non-personal items behind me (to remain anonymous). Like a blank wall. Also, video chat still feels a bit impersonal . . .
 
A few opinions on marriage, worth exactly what they cost here:

Differences can be among life's spices, if explored with respect, acceptance, and patience. Politics? Religion? Cultural differences? Burdensome family expectations? Each can wreck a relationship-- if you let them. Or enhance it, if there's some room for sensible compromise and agreements to disagree, accepting the differences.

Willingness to have somewhat separate aspects of your lives can be the salvation of a marriage. Shared interests are great, but not required. Besides, it's good to have different tales to share at dinnertime.

You know that old advice about never go to bed angry? Forget it. Go to bed angry if you must. Some things look a lot less important by light of day. Other things can be worked on once the steam blows away. And then there's time to think of a sensible and persuasive argument. Just don't ever threaten divorce just because you're mad, even really mad. It's hard to stuff that hurtful rejection back in its box once free.

Pick your battles. Some sources of irritation you just deal with. (And some HE just deals with.) Sometimes you might have to lay down the law, and say This Really Matters. Use that very sparingly lest you be caught short a trump card when it really, REALLY matters.

Surround yourself with good people, honorable, happy, generous ones. It rubs off.
 
Amelia said:
A few opinions on marriage, worth exactly what they cost here:

Differences can be among life's spices, if explored with respect, acceptance, and patience. Politics? Religion? Cultural differences? Burdensome family expectations? Each can wreck a relationship-- if you let them. Or enhance it, if there's some room for sensible compromise and agreements to disagree, accepting the differences.

Willingness to have somewhat separate aspects of your lives can be the salvation of a marriage. Shared interests are great, but not required. Besides, it's good to have different tales to share at dinnertime.

You know that old advice about never go to bed angry? Forget it. Go to bed angry if you must. Some things look a lot less important by light of day. Other things can be worked on once the steam blows away. And then there's time to think of a sensible and persuasive argument. Just don't ever threaten divorce just because you're mad, even really mad. It's hard to stuff that hurtful rejection back in its box once free.

Pick your battles. Some sources of irritation you just deal with. (And some HE just deals with.) Sometimes you might have to lay down the law, and say This Really Matters. Use that very sparingly lest you be caught short a trump card when it really, REALLY matters.

Surround yourself with good people, honorable, happy, generous ones. It rubs off.
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This is great advice, thanks. We are going to speak to our families about our thoughts and see what they think. We need them to be on board and due to the breaking up and getting back together thing, some of them have doubts. It is important to us that they support our decision since they will be a big part of our future.
 
Just remember, the issues that broke you up in the first place are still extant. Moreover, having done it once it is far more likely to happen again. Easier to repeat an action than to do it for the first time.

A successful relationship should not be work all the time. There should be sufficient commonality to provide some lubrication to the interaction. If there isn't, something may be wrong. I suspect the high number of divorces comes from people getting married who have painfully little in common. However, a successful relationship does require compromise from both parties, and is especially dependent on lots of clear communication, again from both parties. Nothing wrong with cooling down a bit before you discuss the issue, but everything wrong with going silent and not discussing it at all.

This free and utterly worthless relationship advice brought to you courtesy of Steinholme.
 
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And one more thought, at no extra charge: If you marry, your first loyalty is thenceforth to your spouse. Not to your parents, his parents, bosses, children, stepchildren, or any of the others who think they own you. I've watched the Others tear good marriages apart with guilt, spite, and impossible demands. You do what you can to support parents, to love your kids and do well by them, to do the best you can at work, but in the final analysis, you have each other... after parents are gone, after kids leave home, after bosses move on. You're a team. Together, you face the world. Anybody who attempts to come between you for whatever reason, needs to know that it's not going to work.
 
steingar said:
Just remember, the issues that broke you up in the first place are still extant. Moreover, having done it once it is far more likely to happen again. Easier to repeat an action than to do it again.

A successful relationship should not be work all the time. There should be sufficient commonality to provide some lubrication to the interaction. If there isn't, something may be wrong. I suspect the high number of divorces comes from people getting married who have painfully little in common. However, a successful relationship does require compromise from both parties, and is especially dependent on lots of clear communication, again from both parties. Nothing wrong with cooling down a bit before you discuss the issue, but everything wrong with going silent and not discussing it at all.

This free and utterly worthless relationship advice brought to you courtesy of Steinholme.
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Thanks, and I understand that. What we need to do is talk about things. I think that was something we never did well before, and it led to misunderstandings and eventually me moving out. It can be hard to bring up the tough issues.
 
Amelia said:
And one more thought, at no extra charge: If you marry, your first loyalty is thenceforth to your spouse. Not to your parents, his parents, bosses, children, stepchildren, or any of the others who think they own you. I've watched the Others tear good marriages apart with guilt, spite, and impossible demands. You do what you can to support parents, to love your kids and do well by them, to do the best you can at work, but in the final analysis, you have each other... after parents are gone, after kids leave home, after bosses move on. You're a team. Together, you face the world. Anybody who attempts to come between you for whatever reason, needs to know that it's not going to work.
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Wow. I feel like perhaps you should charge for these posts? They are great.
 
woodstock said:
Come on, only 500 more views and this will be the number two thread in this forum!
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Yeah but if this ends in happily ever after we won't get more views.

And the story just might have a happy ending. I will have to send thank you notes to all the pilots on this thread after the wedding . . . they talked some sense into me.
 
Maybe it took an internet dating service after all to get you what you wanted.

Being Married is HARD work, but that has been said here before. I just wanted to say it again. Decide now if its worth the effort and go for it, full bore. No excuses if you get cold feet. Decide now.

Trust me, there will be times when you want to beat your spouse with one of their limbs, but you wont.

I would advise against "settling" just because some internet yahoo wanted to get "friendly".
 
Mike Boehler said:
Maybe it took an internet dating service after all to get you what you wanted.

Being Married is HARD work, but that has been said here before. I just wanted to say it again. Decide now if its worth the effort and go for it, full bore. No excuses if you get cold feet. Decide now.

Trust me, there will be times when you want to beat your spouse with one of their limbs, but you wont.

I would advise against "settling" just because some internet yahoo wanted to get "friendly".
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Thanks but I'd hardly call it settling.

After almost 7 years, the only things I can find wrong with this person are so small . . . and insignificant . . . in the big picture. I just had not gone full bore. And not being 100% sure did affect my side of the relationship. I didn't really communicate . . . well both of us didn't . . . and I left.

Was I a fool to leave? The fundamentals were there - everything right down to the honesty, morals, family values, good upbringing, similar beliefs and lifestyle. It is easy as the years go by to forget why you started in the first place.

The fact that sparks still fly and butterflies in stomachs still exist, for both parties, is a good sign. Seven years is a long time.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks but I'd hardly call it settling.

After almost 7 years, the only things I can find wrong with this person are so small . . . and insignificant . . . in the big picture. I just had not gone full bore. And not being 100% sure did affect my side of the relationship. I didn't really communicate . . . well both of us didn't . . . and I left.

Was I a fool to leave? The fundamentals were there - everything right down to the honesty, morals, family values, good upbringing, similar beliefs and lifestyle. It is easy as the years go by to forget why you started in the first place.

The fact that sparks still fly and butterflies in stomachs still exist, for both parties, is a good sign. Seven years is a long time.
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This is gonna sound weird Kim, but I am proud of you. Except for asking your parents and friends if getting back togeather is a good idea. Enough with the consensus building, do what is in your heart and head. Grow up a little here with your new found knowledge. Do you ask for permission to go flying?
 
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steingar said:
That with Skype no one need go on a blind date. That your first view of a potential date can be in the comfort of your own home. That you can become familiar, and maybe even iron out some of these pesky issues without the pressure and other issues of a public social setting.
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Yeah, and...? You say I am not aware of something, I'm still waiting for what I'm not aware of....
 
Amelia said:
And one more thought, at no extra charge: If you marry, your first loyalty is thenceforth to your spouse. Not to your parents, his parents, bosses, children, stepchildren, or any of the others who think they own you. I've watched the Others tear good marriages apart with guilt, spite, and impossible demands. You do what you can to support parents, to love your kids and do well by them, to do the best you can at work, but in the final analysis, you have each other... after parents are gone, after kids leave home, after bosses move on. You're a team. Together, you face the world. Anybody who attempts to come between you for whatever reason, needs to know that it's not going to work.
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This is the very best advice on marriage. EVER!

Amelia, thank you for saying it.

One caveat: both spouses have to agree to not let anyone come between them.

Where Amelia call them the "Others", I call them the "Sandpaper people". Always abrading...of course, because they have your best interest at heart. :rolleyes: Manipulative behavior comes in many form. These are the "little foxes" which ruin the vineyard of your love (Song of Songs).
 
Richard said:
This is the very best advice on marriage. EVER!

Amelia, thank you for saying it.

One caveat: both spouses have to agree to not let anyone come between them.

Where Amelia call them the "Others", I call them the "Sandpaper people". Always abrading...of course, because they have your best interest at heart. :rolleyes: Manipulative behavior comes in many form. These are the "little foxes" which ruin the vineyard of your love (Song of Songs).
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One caveat, I think. When you have children, your first duty is to them, at least while they're children.

Put another way, if I'm in a situation where I can only save my wife or my daughter, I save my daughter. I'd expect my wife to do the same if situation was reversed.
 
I understand-- I, like most parents, would have moved heaven and earth for our children. BUT-- they can be awfully manipulative and destructive little creatures, and if they see a chink in the parental armor, you can bet they'll take full advantage of it. A united front is the only way to survive parenthood. And that goes double for step-parenthood.
 
Amelia said:
I understand-- I, like most parents, would have moved heaven and earth for our children. BUT-- they can be awfully manipulative and destructive little creatures, and if they see a chink in the parental armor, you can bet they'll take full advantage of it. A united front is the only way to survive parenthood. And that goes double for step-parenthood.
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No argument. My first words when my daughter asks for something are "What did your mother say?"
 
Geico266 said:
This is gonna sound weird Kim, but I am proud of you. Except for asking your parents and friends if getting back togeather is a good idea. Enough with the consensus building, do what is in your heart and head. Grow up a little here with your new found knowledge. Do you ask for permission to go flying?
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I understand what you are saying, and the friends / parents thing is more on his side than mine. It is a rather long story but there is a difference between asking and telling.

If they do not support you or like the other person, there could be big problems, but you can't ask what they think - you have to tell them:

"Look, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this other person for almost seven years, even when we are apart, or seeing other people. We have decided to resume the relationship we had and would appreciate your support and understanding. However, my mind is made up and this is what was meant to be."

Instead of letting the advice and opinion of others talk you out of the relationship entirely or implant doubts into your mind.

Family and friends can be a powerful thing and this time around I need to know that we have each other no matter what anyone else thinks. Though it would be a bummer if they were not in approval since I loved them and everything about them was wonderful.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I understand what you are saying, and the friends / parents thing is more on his side than mine. It is a rather long story but there is a difference between asking and telling.

If they do not support you or like the other person, there could be big problems, but you can't ask what they think - you have to tell them:

"Look, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this other person for almost seven years, even when we are apart, or seeing other people. We have decided to resume the relationship we had and would appreciate your support and understanding. However, my mind is made up and this is what was meant to be."

Instead of letting the advice and opinion of others talk you out of the relationship entirely or implant doubts into your mind.

Family and friends can be a powerful thing and this time around I need to know that we have each other no matter what anyone else thinks. Though it would be a bummer if they were not in approval since I loved them and everything about them was wonderful.
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Why do you have to tell anybody, anything?
 
It really shouldn't matter what the family thinks. Someone said it right, it is all about you and your intended. It is up to the family to be accepting and polite, and little more.

My other thought about the situation is it reminds me of things seen in the past. When one or the other of the failed couple would go through a bad experience and want back into the relationship. Every one of them wound up being torn apart by the forces that separated them in the first place.

That said, these memories are old, and the actors in them were not. Then again, do we really change that much?
 
steingar said:
It really shouldn't matter what the family thinks. Someone said it right, it is all about you and your intended. It is up to the family to be accepting and polite, and little more.

My other thought about the situation is it reminds me of things seen in the past. When one or the other of the failed couple would go through a bad experience and want back into the relationship. Every one of them wound up being torn apart by the forces that separated them in the first place.

That said, these memories are old, and the actors in them were not. Then again, do we really change that much?
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I understand that people cannot change. What tore us apart, essentially, were misunderstandings, miscommunications, and lack of action.

We will have to WORK at it this time around. And agree not to be apart ever again.
 
steingar said:
It really shouldn't matter what the family thinks.
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Exactly. I never tried to justify my personal life to anyone else, not even my relatives. Of course they were smart enough never to say anything critical. The other party's family and friends, not so much so.
 
Everskyward said:
Exactly. I never tried to justify my personal life to anyone else, not even my relatives. Of course they were smart enough never to say anything critical. The other party's family and friends, not so much so.
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So you know where I'm coming from!
 
I have in-laws of whom I am less than fond, but have never breathed so much a word of it. I have never burned a bridge, and the relationships have actually improved markedly over time. It was not up to me to approve or disapprove, just to nod and smile. I did plenty of both.
 
I'm chuckling thinking about my future in-laws.

they don't have two IQ points to rub together, but Angie agrees so no problem voicing my thoughts on them!
 
steingar said:
I have in-laws of whom I am less than fond, but have never breathed so much a word of it. I have never burned a bridge, and the relationships have actually improved markedly over time. It was not up to me to approve or disapprove, just to nod and smile. I did plenty of both.
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Actually, I love all of them. They are obviously upset that I've left before and doubtful I will remain for any long period of time, even though our time together was measured in years. They are protecting those they love because they don't want to see them get hurt again.
 
Everskyward said:
Yes, this has happened more than once. It wasn't the reason for breaking up with anyone but it sometimes made things uncomfortable.
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I agree. And when the very close knit, large, extended family not only lives within the next town but sometimes drops by unexpectedly that can add to the troubles.

It may not be mandatory for us to tell anyone, or get along with anyone, but it sure makes things better on a day to day basis.
 
Having the support of those who love you is really important. We all know the disappointment and anger we feel when somebody hurts one we love. You already know you have that to overcome. So briefly admitting that you each had missteps and misunderstandings, sharing that you have each gained insight from time apart for reflection, sharing that you have agreed on a plan, and asking for their support sounds like an excellent idea. Something, maybe like, "We both made some mistakes. We have learned from those mistakes, and we intend to go- and grow- from there (with counseling, determination to give it our all, or whatever you decide is appropriate and helpful) and we'll be grateful to count on you for your encouragement."
As for openness, 'honesty' and confession, might I suggest that less is more? My suggestion is to keep it brief, respectful, and positive, considering that some things may be better left unsaid, or kept between the two of you. Resist the temptation to go all Oprah on them and with your friends, sharing what might be regrettable details that might make things more difficult in the long run.

Dignity, a bit of reticence, and holding onto the privacy for two caring and committed adults to work things out between themselves, is, I think, a very good thing. I wish you the very best.
 
Had I had the intestinal fortitude to ask my family about my first, and could have removed my stubbornness and pride from the equation, I'm quite sure I would not have an "ex"

Had my wife's sister listened to her family, I'm quite sure she would not have 2 "ex"es.

There's some good in listening to wise counsel of family and friends who really do have your best interests at heart.

But, the points about "leaving and cleaving" (ok, so maybe not in so many words) are valid as well.
 
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