Pilot Awarded $1.9 Million.

Pilots getting fired or reprimanded for not flying in bad wx, or small MX issues is nothing new. It’s been happening for year. At least this guy lawyered up right away and won.
 
The article has no information. What weather? PIC always can walk away, but as an employee you are also bound by the standards of the company.
 
I'd be interested to know what the actual weather forecast and concerns were.

On the one hand, as pilots we have to be able to say "no".

But on the other hand, we also have to be reasonable about when we say "no".
 
RussR said:
I'd be interested to know what the actual weather forecast and concerns were.

On the one hand, as pilots we have to be able to say "no".

But on the other hand, we also have to be reasonable about when we say "no".
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Seems he was fairly reasonable about it…he suggested doing the trip the next day.

what the actual “safety concerns” about the weather were, who knows. Apparently the court decided they were reasonable concerns.
 
pfarber said:
The article has no information. What weather? PIC always can walk away, but as an employee you are also bound by the standards of the company.
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An employee can always walk away, too. OSHA and other federal regs relating to workplace safety. Until recntly I worked for a company with manufacturing operations ( I write software… ). Had my boss required me to enter one of the areas with hazardous materials and not provided me appropriate training AND protective gear, it would have been a federal violation on the part of the company, I would have been entirely within my rights to refuse and not get fired.

Of course the closest such facility was 100 miles away. Even so, we were all required to take the training, just in case. Silly,
 
I'm refusing to go to the GMU lunch fly-in tomorrow due to weather, can I get me a cool 2 mill?
 
Kritchlow said:
He may have a tough time getting another job with that on his resume.
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Only pilot I know who did something similar (refused Pt135 trips if his on-call duty time violated FAA mandated rest req's) hasn't worked in the business since he was fired. He won his case, got some kind of pay out, but nothing like $2M. He's OK with it and doing well, but like Kritch said, if flying is all he was qualified to do and ended up on the street with very poor employment prospects, that's not so far fetched.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Interesting…
It was Airtech who sued first asking to be reimbursed for training expenses it paid to have Justinic rated and certified to fly a specific plane, the documents state. He countersued a month later.
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Looks like the company's decision to sue backfired. Since they sued him first, he may have felt that he had no choice but to countersue.
 
eman1200 said:
I'm refusing to go to the GMU lunch fly-in tomorrow due to weather, can I get me a cool 2 mill?
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Yes, by working hard and making good choices. Hmm...on second thought, no you can't.

Nauga,
who wanted to say "Go sue yourself." In a way.
 
I second the motion sue yourself...:rolleyes: What is the weather going to be?
 
I remember the weather that month and year clearly.
Two category 5 hurricanes Irma and Maria within a week of each other. .
The article says flight to the Caribbean in that month. I live in south Florida. The weather was garbage.
 
I guess I should stop being surprised at poorly taken reactions to this kind of thing from non-lawyers.

I practice in this area of law and have actually met the lawyers who represented him at a conference, back when we had such nice things. They are excellent and quite respected in the field.

The result isn't surprising, given the facts, and we don't know exactly what it consists of. We don't know how much was economic (usually pretty substantial for a pilot), non-economic and punitive. I also don't know how the law works specifically in Kentucky as to any addition to damages.

My guess is that the Plaintiff tried to settle the case before litigating and the Defendant decided to try and sue him over the type rating to exert pressure, which seems to have supremely backfired.

Kenny Phillips said:
I applaud his win. I'm appalled at the jury award.
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Feel free to move to another country.
 
N1120A said:
I guess I should stop being surprised at poorly taken reactions to this kind of thing from non-lawyers.

I practice in this area of law and have actually met the lawyers who represented him at a conference, back when we had such nice things. They are excellent and quite respected in the field.

The result isn't surprising, given the facts, and we don't know exactly what it consists of. We don't know how much was economic (usually pretty substantial for a pilot), non-economic and punitive. I also don't know how the law works specifically in Kentucky as to any addition to damages.

My guess is that the Plaintiff tried to settle the case before litigating and the Defendant decided to try and sue him over the type rating to exert pressure, which seems to have supremely backfired.
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Reading the article above, it didn't explain the legal arguments. I assume the pilot was not in a labor union, so can't an employer fire you for any reason or no reason (except the protected ones)? What was the pilot's argument for wrongful termination?

(I'm not trying to argue if it's right or wrong, I'm just curious about the law)
 
ColoPilot said:
Reading the article above, it didn't explain the legal arguments. I assume the pilot was not in a labor union, so can't an employer fire you for any reason or no reason (except the protected ones)? What was the pilot's argument for wrongful termination?

(I'm not trying to argue if it's right or wrong, I'm just curious about the law)
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Almost every, if not every, state has statutory, common law or a combination of both protections for people who protest or refuse to engage in violations of workplace safety and also legal regulations. This can be whistleblower or other OSHA related statutes. Refusing to fly an airplane in an unsafe condition as pilot in command would fall under these.
 
ColoPilot said:
Reading the article above, it didn't explain the legal arguments. I assume the pilot was not in a labor union, so can't an employer fire you for any reason or no reason (except the protected ones)? What was the pilot's argument for wrongful termination?

(I'm not trying to argue if it's right or wrong, I'm just curious about the law)
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I’m not really sure, but I believe that depends on the state.
Regardless… firing someone for refusing to adhere to safety, I would think will open a can of worms. Especially when the PIC (in pt 135 operations) is charged with sole responsibility of safety of flight.
 
N1120A said:
Almost every, if not every, state has statutory, common law or a combination of both protections for people who protest or refuse to engage in violations of workplace safety and also legal regulations. This can be whistleblower or other OSHA related statutes. Refusing to fly an airplane in an unsafe condition as pilot in command would fall under these.
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You are the expert, but I believe you were typing the same thing as me…. Although mine was in layman’s terms.
 
Go until you can’t. If you can’t, and say you can’t, have the regulations to back you up. Knowing the regulations is a critical first step.

Years past, me or my crews have been under such “undue command influence” (aka the boss); however, backed up by regulatory criteria, you’ll never lose. It appears this Pilot understood and exercised that authority.
 
kep5niner said:
Go until you can’t. If you can’t, and say you can’t, have the regulations to back you up. Knowing the regulations is a critical first step.

Years past, me or my crews have been under such “undue command influence” (aka the boss); however, backed up by regulatory criteria, you’ll never lose. It appears this Pilot understood and exercised that authority.
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Well, correct…. But trust me in this one…. UNION.

There’s a reason 99% of airlines are unionized.
 
kep5niner said:
Roger. I concur, but the majority of my experience is military. We haven’t quite figured out how to unionize yet ;)
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Lol!! From what I understand, and mind you I never flew military, they are very tight on maintenance. Am I wrong??

Weather… yeah, we go.
 
The award seems excessive. The jury thinks this guy will be out of work for more than 10 years?
 
Clip4 said:
The award seems excessive. The jury thinks this guy will be out of work for more than 10 years?
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I guess you missed my post. There are multiple components to damages, lost earnings is just one of them. Lost earnings also have components - past and future. We don't know if he's been out of work for the last 4 already, because that is when the jury found he was was wrongfully terminated.

I also guess you didn't take the time to look up his certificate. Given that he's type rated in Convair 240/340/440, it is likely that he's an older guy and probably has had a hard time finding a new job - and possibly can't fly for the airlines anymore.
 
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Lawyers will take a big chunk, so say he is left with 1.2 million, if he made $200k/year, that’s 6 years of lost wages.
 
If you can make $200K a year flying part 91 corporate, sign me up.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Lawyers will take a big chunk, so say he is left with 1.2 million, if he made $200k/year, that’s 6 years of lost wages.
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Yes, plus dollars are shrinking in value at an alarming rate. A million isn’t actually much anymore.
 
Rushie said:
Yes, plus dollars are shrinking in value at an alarming rate. A million isn’t actually much anymore.
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"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
- Everett Dirksen

:D
 
kep5niner said:
Go until you can’t. If you can’t, and say you can’t, have the regulations to back you up. Knowing the regulations is a critical first step.

Years past, me or my crews have been under such “undue command influence” (aka the boss); however, backed up by regulatory criteria, you’ll never lose. It appears this Pilot understood and exercised that authority.
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Even without regs backing it up, if it’s a perceived safety issue, you’ve got grounds for a lawsuit.

Friend who worked for this company at the time said rumor was this ELT was MEL’d, the pilot just didn’t want to fly it under an MEL. Company fired him. Can’t report to the FSDO because they’ll be like, “we approved your MEL list, what’s the problem?” Only recourse is to go to OSHA. They’ll take the case.

https://www.flyingmag.com/news-osha-orders-air-methods-to-reinstate-whistleblower-pilot/
 
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