People are gaming the air carrier access act.

Meh, I could care less, the airlines will let you bring most little critters on after you pay some dumb fee, besides I've NEVER had a issue with a service dog or a "service dog", the loud disrespectful little kids however...
 
You should see the "SERVICE DOGS" that come into the ER. Barking and snipping at staff. Oh and you don't dare ask them if it truly is a service animal because that is offensive and you can face a lawsuit. It amazes me at how well these people can learn how to manipulate every law to their advantage if they put half the effort into getting a job/career they would most likely be successful.

But They Be Stuntin Like They Daddy
 
I've never seen that before, worse I've seen was a little whimper or something.
 
MotoFlier said:
You should see the "SERVICE DOGS" that come into the ER. Barking and snipping at staff. Oh and you don't dare ask them if it truly is a service animal because that is offensive and you can face a lawsuit. It amazes me at how well these people can learn how to manipulate every law to their advantage if they put half the effort into getting a job/career they would most likely be successful.

But They Be Stuntin Like They Daddy
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The most successful people in our society get that way by scamming and manipulating the law; it's why we have rule of law.
 
Henning said:
The most successful people in our society get that way by scamming and manipulating the law; it's why we have rule of law.
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Spoken like a true un-succesful person. :rolleyes:

C'mon H. you're bigger than that.
 
This has been going on for a while. I think it's more obvious now that people realize there is nothing that anyone can do about it. In the last year I've seen more dogs, most likely pets, with a "service dog" vest being taken paces where pets are normally not allowed. Haven't seen a horse or pig yet

edit: Ask fastmetal about the time he took a student into class B (MCI) for pattern work, then got chased out when an airliner had an emergency. A dog got the runs all over the cabin.
 
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James331 said:
Meh, I could care less, the airlines will let you bring most little critters on after you pay some dumb fee, besides I've NEVER had a issue with a service dog or a "service dog", the loud disrespectful little kids however...
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Niece visited me this summer, with a pair of grand-nephews. Her husband is a brewing fan, and found a brew-pub he wanted to go to. The whole family walked in the front door, but they informed us they were adults only.

Almost claimed my grand-nephews as service animals... After all, I'd get upset if they weren't with me.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Matthew said:
This has been going on for a while. I think it's more obvious now that people realize there is nothing that anyone can do about it. In the last year I've seen more dogs, most likely pets, with a "service dog" vest being taken paces where pets are normally not allowed. Haven't seen a horse or pig yet

edit: Ask fastmetal about the time he took a student into class B (MCI) for pattern work, then got chased out when an airliner had an emergency. A dog got the runs all over the cabin.
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I'd say that almost all of them are just pets. It is a scam in most cases. I have noticed that the vast majority of passengers with service dogs are women with little lap rats. I wonder why that is? Are they all trying to be like the celebs who always seem to be carrying their rats around?
 
wanttaja said:
Niece visited me this summer, with a pair of grand-nephews. Her husband is a brewing fan, and found a brew-pub he wanted to go to. The whole family walked in the front door, but they informed us they were adults only.

Almost claimed my grand-nephews as service animals... After all, I'd get upset if they weren't with me.....

Ron Wanttaja
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I love adult only joints. I hate going to any sort of bar and have someone bring their kids there.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I'd say that almost all of them are just pets. It is a scam in most cases. I have noticed that the vast majority of passengers with service dogs are women with little lap rats. I wonder why that is? Are they all trying to be like the celebs who always seem to be carrying their rats around?
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Airlines are the kings of scams, hard for me to shed a tear.

Also

Because it's a fricking tiny dog!

I've brought my 6lb dog on quite a few flights, she has a carrier which looks like small square canvas and mesh duffle bag, most times folks don't even realize there is a dog in there, she goes under the seat, occasional in cruise I'll let her sit on my lap, the only odd looks I get is when people ask where the heck the dog came from, never had a complaint or issue.


Still as a pax, I got no issue with someone's dog or whatever, it's the kids who kick the seats, who make the most noise.
 
Matthew said:
This has been going on for a while. I think it's more obvious now that people realize there is nothing that anyone can do about it. In the last year I've seen more dogs, most likely pets, with a "service dog" vest being taken paces where pets are normally not allowed. Haven't seen a horse or pig yet

edit: Ask fastmetal about the time he took a student into class B (MCI) for pattern work, then got chased out when an airliner had an emergency. A dog got the runs all over the cabin.
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I cannot believe this would constitute an emergency. I don't think we actually have the facts here.
 
txflyer said:
Spoken like a true un-succesful person. :rolleyes:

C'mon H. you're bigger than that.
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John D Rockefeller, Andrew Carnagie, JS & JP Morgan... shall I continue the list? The truth will set you free, we live in a state of unreality. If you're rich enough, you get an Act of Congress through that gives you control over the economy. That's manipulation of law.
 
As the owner of a service dog for my diabetes. I have it under better control now, so I don't need him, so he is "retired". I did a lot of training (about 6 months of intensive (2-3 hours/day, both of us get tired of that) training, and regular "less intensive" training (20-30 minutes/day) daily after that.
http://servicedogacademy.com/wp/training/coopers-puppy-manners-impress-seattle-diabetes-crowd/
(He's the brown one...)
Anyway, here's what I do on airplanes when I see a "Service Dog" on the airplanes, I strike up a conversation with them, and then ask what service the dog provides. So far, I've gotten:
"Oh, he's just a pet, and I just say that so he gets on for free."
"He makes me feel safe"
"I am scared of flying, and he calms me down"
"He's my therapy dog"
Then, I inform them that I have a Service Dog, and what they're explaining to me is a "therapy dog", and has no legal rights in the US.
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
You can't take a "therapy dog" anywhere with impunity. You can ask the shop owner if you can take them in, but s/he can simply say, "no", after asking you the two questions on the form:
Is that dog required because of a disability? (Horses have stricter rules, and I think anything but a first class seat area would accommodate them, due to the physical mechanics of a horse.) For me, the answer is: Yes.
What service has the dog been trained to do? He senses when my blood sugar is going low.

On my last experience with grandma (someone else's), she got really quiet after I told her that I have a service dog (he wasn't with me on the trip to Mexico - it was a 3 day trip, and Cooper is out of it the first day of travel, so he wouldn't have been much help anyway), and I don't appreciate people that make it harder for me to travel with mine.

After getting off the flight, I had to wait on the jetway for my baggage, and two attendants appreciated what I did. Especially after the dog crapped in it's diaper.

A few things (yeah, I'm on my soap box):
Service dogs have to be well behaved.
Service dogs aren't pets, so please ask the owner to pet them. Many people that are blind (my sister in law) understand that people like petting dogs, but while they are working, petting them doesn't help the situation at all. Cooper loves the attention (and diabetic alert dogs are working 24/7, so the only thing he needs to do is alert me, whether he is being loved on or not, so I let people love on him. Both like it.), but when I give him the command to come to me, he stops, and immediately does so.

OK, off the soap box now... gotta pet the dog.
 
Jeffythequick said:
As the owner of a service dog for my diabetes. I have it under better control now, so I don't need him, so he is "retired". I did a lot of training (about 6 months of intensive (2-3 hours/day, both of us get tired of that) training, and regular "less intensive" training (20-30 minutes/day) daily after that.
http://servicedogacademy.com/wp/training/coopers-puppy-manners-impress-seattle-diabetes-crowd/
(He's the brown one...)
Anyway, here's what I do on airplanes when I see a "Service Dog" on the airplanes, I strike up a conversation with them, and then ask what service the dog provides. So far, I've gotten:
"Oh, he's just a pet, and I just say that so he gets on for free."
"He makes me feel safe"
"I am scared of flying, and he calms me down"
"He's my therapy dog"
Then, I inform them that I have a Service Dog, and what they're explaining to me is a "therapy dog", and has no legal rights in the US.
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
You can't take a "therapy dog" anywhere with impunity. You can ask the shop owner if you can take them in, but s/he can simply say, "no", after asking you the two questions on the form:
Is that dog required because of a disability? (Horses have stricter rules, and I think anything but a first class seat area would accommodate them, due to the physical mechanics of a horse.) For me, the answer is: Yes.
What service has the dog been trained to do? He senses when my blood sugar is going low.

On my last experience with grandma (someone else's), she got really quiet after I told her that I have a service dog (he wasn't with me on the trip to Mexico - it was a 3 day trip, and Cooper is out of it the first day of travel, so he wouldn't have been much help anyway), and I don't appreciate people that make it harder for me to travel with mine.

After getting off the flight, I had to wait on the jetway for my baggage, and two attendants appreciated what I did. Especially after the dog crapped in it's diaper.

A few things (yeah, I'm on my soap box):
Service dogs have to be well behaved.
Service dogs aren't pets, so please ask the owner to pet them. Many people that are blind (my sister in law) understand that people like petting dogs, but while they are working, petting them doesn't help the situation at all. Cooper loves the attention (and diabetic alert dogs are working 24/7, so the only thing he needs to do is alert me, whether he is being loved on or not, so I let people love on him. Both like it.), but when I give him the command to come to me, he stops, and immediately does so.

OK, off the soap box now... gotta pet the dog.
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First off, I'll agree, dogs need to be well behaved if they are taken around other people, service dog, pet, whatever.

As to your service dog avenger routine though,
Has anyone told you to mind your business when you do this routine?

Folks get all bent out of shape over jack diddly now days, I think most are bothered that others use the system, frankly the airlines use the system too, everyone does, what's the old saying.. If you look around a room and you can't pick out the sucker, it's probably you.


Here's how that would play in my book

Is that dog required because of a disability?
Yes

What service has the dog been trained to do?
Services related to my disability.

Perhaps there is a guy in a wheel chair you could flip, maybe he's just looking to game the airline for that extra overhead space....



I know it's antidotal, but I've never, not once, seen a dog crap all over a airline, attack small children, attempt to hijack a plane, steal a purse, nothing aside from maybe a whimper or two.

Much like the drones, if you have so much extra time and energy to worry about someone getting one over on a crappy airline, perhaps picking up a new hobby would be a good idea, I mean really out of all the BS you get flying on a airline, this is so waaaaay waaaaaaaaaay down the list.
 
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Not just the airlines. I'm seeing a lot of people (usually women) with their little foo-foo dogs in the grocery store, Home Depot, the doctors office..., you name it. I'm accustomed to seeing dogs with their heads sticking out of a car window, and I don't get that either. Why not just leave the dog at home?
 
garyb said:
Not just the airlines. I'm seeing a lot of people (usually women) with their little foo-foo dogs in the grocery store, Home Depot, the doctors office..., you name it. I'm accustomed to seeing dogs with their heads sticking out of a car window, and I don't get that either. Why not just leave the dog at home?
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Meh, why don't folks leave their poorly breed and trained children at home?

If the dog, kid, cat whatever doesn't get in the way or cause trouble why not just live and let live?
 
James331 said:
Meh, why don't folks leave their poorly breed and trained children at home?

If the dog, kid, cat whatever doesn't get in the way or cause trouble why not just live and let live?
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It doesn't seem that long ago that adults left both their pets and their kids at home most of the time that they went out. These days, every event is a major family outing and everyone gets to go.
 
Easy way to tell the real from the fake is that the real ones are trained, just curl under the seat and you dont see or hear them for the duration of the flight.
 
weilke said:
Easy way to tell the real from the fake is that the real ones are trained, just curl under the seat and you dont see or hear them for the duration of the flight.
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Mines not "officially" trained and she just curls up and goes to sleep, most dogs I've seen do that
 
James331 said:
First off, I'll agree, dogs need to be well behaved if they are taken around other people, service dog, pet, whatever.

As to your service dog avenger routine though,
Has anyone told you to mind your business when you do this routine?

Folks get all bent out of shape over jack diddly now days, I think most are bothered that others use the system, frankly the airlines use the system too, everyone does, what's the old saying.. If you look around a room and you can't pick out the sucker, it's probably you.


Here's how that would play in my book

Is that dog required because of a disability?
Yes

What service has the dog been trained to do?
Services related to my disability.

Perhaps there is a guy in a wheel chair you could flip, maybe he's just looking to game the airline for that extra overhead space....



I know it's antidotal, but I've never, not once, seen a dog crap all over a airline, attack small children, attempt to hijack a plane, steal a purse, nothing aside from maybe a whimper or two.

Much like the drones, if you have so much extra time and energy to worry about someone getting one over on a crappy airline, perhaps picking up a new hobby would be a good idea, I mean really out of all the BS you get flying on a airline, this is so waaaaay waaaaaaaaaay down the list.
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Luckily, the dog that sat behind me had a diaper on, and no, I'm not an ass about it. It's usually conversational and yes, the people do get uppity sometimes, but that's on them. The conversations usually end with them being quiet, and not bragging so much about their toy poodle getting on the flight for free while another person has to pay for them. At least on that flight. Who knows, maybe they'll think twice about teaching others to game the system.

As it stands now, there is no "legal registration" for service animals and quite frankly, there shouldn't be one. However, living in a free society does require morals, and those can come from people speaking up when they see something wrong.

As for the two questions, that's what the ADA says that owners of businesses can ask in their establishments. What I can ask, as a customer of an airline, to a fellow passenger is up to me.

So, as this seems to be going down a typical Internet hyperbole hole, no, I don't assume that people in wheelchairs are gaming the system, nor do I call out seemingly fit people for legally parking in handicapped stalls, unless we're talking, and they say, "yeah, I borrowed that from my Aunt Florence, who is a quadruple amputee, so I can park here on the day after Thanksgiving at the mall."

It's amazing how proud people get for getting one "over on the Man," that they'll tell a complete stranger. I just let them talk, and then curve the conversation so they're not so proud anymore.
 
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Does this mean if I bring my service Alpaca with me, I can get an upgrade to first class?
 
I need my emotional support dog!


1231239dog.jpg
 
Autumn is worth the $125 each way to join me on American Airlines.
 
I need a Service Tiger. "Oh, you mean I get the whole plane to myself? Sweet."
 
rolivi said:
Autumn is worth the $125 each way to join me on American Airlines.
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$125 and she doesn't take up any space you haven't already paid for, and on a airline who our tax dollars have probably semi bailed out!

And it's the lady with the 5lb dog who's "gaming the system" :rofl:
 
I must confess that I've thought about slapping some sort of vest on my parents' dog and calling her a "service dog" when I dog-sit her, just so I can take her in with me to the few places up here that don't allow dogs. She actually acts like a service dog (or at least an exceptionally well-behaved pet) when on a leash, so I could probably pull it off.

Around here, however, most stores are tolerant of leashed dogs. My next-door neighbor also doesn't mind her hanging around when I have to go somewhere where she'd be unwelcome. But my next-store neighbor is a snowbird who's flown south for the winter, so the "service dog" idea has become tempting again.

To be quite honest, though, she really doesn't "need" to be left with anyone. She deals well enough with being left alone for a while either at home or in the car. She just enjoys going for trips and visiting places, and I don't mind the company. She has an exceptionally likable personality.

What I'll undoubtedly do next time around, however, will be leave her with some other neighbor. The old veteran down the hill really seems to enjoy having her around anyway, so he's a likely candidate. I have enough respect for private property that I don't want to game the system by using a service dog scam to override a property owner's rules about animals. But I admit it's something I've thought about.

As for the dog, she likes pretty much everyone except my parents' next-door neighbor. She hates him. No one can figure out why. He's a likable enough old guy and our families have known each other for probably 30 years, maybe more. His land is also physically far enough away from my parents' that it doesn't seem like a territoriality thing, and she likes everyone else in his family. But she hates him. Go figger.

Rich
 
James331 said:
$125 and she doesn't take up any space you haven't already paid for, and on a airline who our tax dollars have probably semi bailed out!

And it's the lady with the 5lb dog who's "gaming the system" :rofl:
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^^^That!^^^

:thumbsup:
 
James331 said:
$125 and she doesn't take up any space you haven't already paid for, and on a airline who our tax dollars have probably semi bailed out!

And it's the lady with the 5lb dog who's "gaming the system" :rofl:
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Mh, yeah. If her pooch is a pet, it is supposed to remain in a kennel under the seat. By claiming service animal status, the animal can be in the persons lap.

Abusers of the service animal regulations are not getting one over on the airline. They are getting one over on the other passengers. Particularly in economy, you have pretty cramped quarters. If someone has a dog sitting in their lap it does impose upon and inconvenience their seat neighbors.
 
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I believe Ed Fred has a "service Gerbel" he uses, and takes in the plane.




:D
 
From my previous rant, there are a few things...

I don't mind well-behaved dogs on leashes (heck, if they're well behaved, let them off the leash...) where they are welcomed, in restaurants, at Home Depot, Petco (the absolute worst place to take a Service Dog... Cooper has almost been attacked by a couple of pit bulls that were in the attack stance to any dog within 15 feet of them, while the owners laughed. We walked away, and kept our distance. I don't want $7000 of training ruined and the only recompense I have is "oh, I'm sorry my dog attacked yours."), on the street, in hotels, on aircraft. Just, please don't game the system by giving it a legal status by (what's the nice word for it...) lying.

By lying, I mean intentionally giving false statements to make the receiver of that statement believe them to be true.
 
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