Okay. So given this project was developed enough to determine certification costs per unit, at what point during the STC certification plan (PSCP) did the FAA project manager discontinue the process on the V8?
Not sure why you continue to be so interested in our projects points of failure but I’ll end the topic here as its irrelevant to everyone else… also recommend you read the website as it details what you continue to inquire about.
The project was going exceptionally well at MIDO and ACO levels, in fact they were encouraging. The issues happened at policy level and executive levels made it clear to all they didn’t want it and the word spread it seemed to all cert levels within the FAA. First off, understand there is no requirement for a project of this level to hire DERs, and applicant can deal directly with ACO (called that at the time) which was necessary to reduce costs to make it work. But, this became impossible when FAA took literally years to respond to us, at all levels. I expect even if we had hired the different categories of DERs it would not have been super easy but it would have forced them to respond to delegated reps . Our tem included former DER and engineers and the cert plan and basis was not over technical…..remember these planes were certified in the 1950s under CAR. But paying DERs, would need at least 3 in different specialist, to argue and negotiate would have bankrupted us before we could get going. It was a lose -lose proposition….likely our best bet was to hire a lawyer and threaten to sue them to simply do their job, but that would require an open check book.
Remember, we had a flying 90% production plane with all required testing completed for the AWC… even a completed private pilot training and successful check ride in it, so this wasn’t theoretical or BS….the plane outperformed all other c172 models, cost 60% less to fly, eliminated lead gas issue, was quieter and could be installed on different airframes with software changes. So there was no need to ignore us…. It was clear the the thing worked as stated in our paper work and easy enough to stop in and see it if they wanted to….but they did quite the opposite and doubled down and we found our self’s arguing the R&D AWC allowed us to make alterations even though it was a previous certified aircraft… some of us fly for airlines and became worried that they could try to violate us for flying it and parked the thing for almost a year trying to resolve such issues…..but no responses were ever received from our inquires and petitions…. Our plan was to evolve a second c172 to hybrid and that would not happen.
Before flying to osh last year got a call from FAA saying they wanted to come out a talk to us bout a petition we filed over 3 years prior per washing dc office…..they did come out but it was a surprise paper work ramp check for all our program and related docs and they wanted our AWC. We argued the techinical reasons and able to reason with the 2 inspectors and got a new dated document and it in time to fly to osh. Try’s just one example. This visit was likely due to punitive action due to a AIRFACTS journal article I wrote with a project update where I named names .
I’ll sum it up with this which explains the issues we had….. at an air show early on a retired FAA ACO manger told us we will NEVER get anywhere with the FAA…. This surprised me as we had it flying and it worked great…..he said simply the FAA doesn’t have money to support ga piston as it comes from general budget and happy to see it shrink, but the biggest reason is that Cessna and piper sold these planes 50 years ago but get sued every time they crash and have to continue to support the product, and they have considerable influence with FAA policy makers. That sums it up.
I didn’t believe him but he was dead on correct. Just look at the DPE situation and the expense and waiting it takes for a ride, they don’t care young american tax payers wait months and fly hours away to pay thousands of dollars in mostly cash for the privilege. I’d argue it’s by design; look at all the modern and cheap equipment that could save lives like or bags and bigger artificial horizons, FAA did absolutely nothing to work with industry to develope solutions or fast track solutions….. their own study notes simple auto pilots would significantly reduce accidents nd deaths and the reason we don’t have them is primarily due to FAA certification cost! Yet they did NOTHING to develope a solution…. How many accidents and lives could have been saved over the last 20 years if they did… FDA or DOT acts is such cases.
Overall, simply look at the site of ga compared to 50 years ago and it says it all.
We recently sent paperwork to the certification branch to restart the project to see why would happen…..actually spoke with the piston engineer whom never hard of us before and was interested in the project, asked us to Email him formal request and project info to set up initial meeting, which I did, and he responded receipt stating was working on setting a meeting up with managers and me for initial project meeting . That was almost a year ago and still no response even after voice and e mails….essentially the same as last 5 years. I actually contacted the administrator whom responded back asking for names and specifics and stated I would hear something in the near future. But, you guessed it, that was months go and nothing.
We never said we had the solution, but it was damn close enough and a good start that FAA should have at least met with us or return a call or formal emails or petitions especially since all are public servants . We never asked for favoritism, only for them to do their job. They did the opposite at different levels for years and I have no doubt it was systemic from a broken and corrupt culture. The policy and executive level public servants made it clear continuing the project would be senseless. We had the money to design and build the solution, but not enough to buy their influence ….we felt we were dealing with a corrupt banana republic.
I’m not going to argue or debate you on if the project was managed or we were qualified other than to say we were. If any one, regardless of merit of project or their qualifications reaches out to public servants and gets systemically and intentionally dismissed, the system is busted and I concluded over 5 years of this is run by corrupt managers more concerned about continuing to protect big companies than faa mandate to promote aviation. As a development and test pilot and former DER for transport category big planes, I never ever heard of anything llike this, but such programs were all well funded from big companies.
Read the website stufff if you still wamt more info. I have additional stuff but lack the motivation to add it. But don’t suggest we didn’t know what we were doing or didn’t understand the process as some other ignorant member suggested some time ago. The project was shut down and a huge disappointment to many, not to mention an expensive lesson. The takeaway is there’s a reason ga is stuck in the 1950s and unaffordable to most now, and why few try to make a difference.
I hope this answers your question.
