PC-12 Crash In South Dakota, 9 dead, 3 survivors (CFIBlizzard?)

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by FlyingElvii, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. FlyingElvii

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  2. mondtster

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    Weather has been poor here all day with surface temps just below freezing. Interstates are closed and some places a little farther west got over a foot of snow. Not a good day for flying light airplanes.

    If bad weather isn’t enough I’m under the understanding that there isn’t a configuration for the PC-12 that allows for 12 passengers. So unless some of the occupants were lap children I would question the loading.
     
  3. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I can’t imagine there are Deicing facilities/equipment there like you would find at KRAP/KFSD/KSUX.
     
  4. dbahn

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    My first suspicion is that it might have involved a PC12 pilot who has posted a number of videos flying in that area in the past, many of them demonstrating a fairly cavalier attitude about airmanship.
     
  5. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    Don't think there is room for more than 9 seats in the back, making a total of 11. Also one report shows youngest onboard at 7 years-old, so no infants. And if they had any luggage.... Have been on a few max full PC-12 flights and find it hard to imagine 12 people plus bags onboard.
     
  6. ArnoldPalmer

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  7. PeterNSteinmetz

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  8. PeterNSteinmetz

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    Kathryn’s report says 3 survived and being treated. 2 young children amongst the deceased with 12 on the plane.
     
  9. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    It’s amazing some ppl survived this. God bless.
     
  10. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I figured it must have been a hunting trip.
     
  11. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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  12. mondtster

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    Thanks for confirming that. I have limited PC-12 experience but was under the impression that the max seating configuration was for 11 but many are configured for less. Unfortunately, I’m not surprised to hear that the youngest onboard was too old to be a lap child but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
     
  13. Dave Theisen

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    It would even matter if one was a lap child. The type certificate is for 11 maximum.
     
  14. dbahn

    dbahn Pre-takeoff checklist

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  15. frfly172

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    Sad RIP and a speedy recovery for the survivors.
     
  16. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How did you make that leap ?

    N56KJ is registered to the potato company whose execs died in the crash and flew out of Idaho Falls. The other guy with the blathering copilot is in California.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @FlyingElvii who is "CFIBlizzard" (from your subject line)?
     
  18. Dave Theisen

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    I’m guessing that’s a play on CFIT. Controlled Flight into Blizzard
     
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  19. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    A terrible tragedy. :(

    I suspect inadequate preflight removal of snow and ice accumulation may have been the cause. The upper surface of the wing roots are over 4' above the ramp, and over 6' at the wingtips. The PC-12 has a T-tail elevator that's almost 14' off the ground. There isn't a FBO at the Chamberlain airport, and a satellite view shows no large hangars. Unless the aircraft was in a hangar, it's unlikely the flying surfaces were completely free of contamination.

    Self serve Jet A is available. Fuel system icing inhibitor is premixed into the Jet A storage tanks, so I wouldn't think fuel system icing was an issue.

    This is a particularly brutal event, as four generations of family members were among those lost. There are other family members, coworkers, and friends experiencing crushing grief that will not abate for a long time. My prayers ask that God provide peace and sustenance to them.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  20. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    I don’t like to point to deficiencies of fellow pilots, sorry for that. There’s that ‘88%’ figure we can’t dismiss.

    Yes, overall hindsite is better than 20/20, easy to pick out weak points. On the other hand, the amount of tragedy is almost unfathomable to family & friends. That tragedy will last for the rest of their lives, decades.

    Word is they couldn’t fly Sunday, ‘Latter Day Saints’ faith prohibited, then had an event he/they ‘NEEDED’ to be back for Monday. That sort of stuff can upset someone, me.

    Some don’t like a ‘crash forum’(lessons learned). This stuff needs to be in the back of the mind of all of us planning trips, 20 fold when the whole family is loaded up.

    Yeah, I’ll try not to post much else here, coffee time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  21. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    Sorry? For what?

    Wouldn't you agree that failing to clear ice and snow from wing surfaces is a failure of ADM? Actually, anything other than an engine failure at takeoff, unlikely in a turbine powered aircraft, points to actions or decisions the pilot made. It's a given.

    While it's obvious the weather was bad, I discounted it because the crash happened literally seconds after takeoff. Winds weren't a factor, they were reported as less than 10 kts at the time of the crash.

    Twelve people were aboard the Pilatus PC-12 bound for Idaho Falls when it crashed within a mile after takeoff in Chamberlain about 12:30 p.m. Saturday, National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Knudson said.

    Considering the flight duration, airframe contamination seems to be a likely cause. Weight and balance outside the limits is a possibility. Twelve occupants with shotguns and heavy winter hunting gear were on board.

    A closed interstate doesn't mean much. When snowfall overwhelms snowplows on highways, it's almost always because of accumulation over a long distance, not intensity. However, another possibility is runway contamination, which could have prevented the aircraft from attaining an adequate airspeed at liftoff.

    We don't get points for guessing why airplanes crash, so this will be my last post on the subject.
     
  22. mryan75

    mryan75 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I read somewhere that it was a professional pilot, apparently for one of their firms?
     
  23. mryan75

    mryan75 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Funny thing is, in the past week I see two diversions on FlightAware, both presumably for weather. This one was intended for KBOI but landed 13 miles short at KMAN, I assume because KBOI was showing radar returns for snow at the time.

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N56KJ/history/20191127/0202Z/KONP/KBOI

    There were two diversions that day. Also, reading on Kathryn's:

     
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  24. Tarheelpilot

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    Would not surprise me.

    you know I bet this dangerous attitude started one day when the guy flew with some frost on his wing.
     
  25. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    The pilot was one of the two brothers that were principals in the firm. He has had a PPL since 2008, and held SEL, MEL, and IFR ratings.
     
  26. Dave Theisen

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    We get it! :)
     
  27. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Is this true?

    The loss of life is tragic, and very frustrating that only a few (what seemed innocuous) decisions by the PIC led to this accident though.
     
  28. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    They landed an KMAN regularly, so might have been a planned diversion depending on weather conditions.
    Brian
     
  29. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

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    It is a preference for keeping the sabbath holy. There’s no couldn’t. It appears to be a wouldn’t.
     
  30. sourdough44

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    There were higher level LDS members(current or former). There is mention of not flying on Sundays, though I have no idea what went on in the PIC’s mind. Not sure if even Sunday was any better.

    https://www.eastidahonews.com/2019/...th-dakota-plane-crash-jim-hansen-kirk-hansen/
     
  31. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    The cause of this accident is pretty obvious. On annual trip, hunt as long as we can as long as we take off before the airport snows in. The opposite of the get home accident.

    On the Northern Plains weather forecasts are far from certain.
     
  32. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    What the heck happened with that? :confused:
     
  33. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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  34. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Wow, weather at departure was not nice: winds from 020 degrees (north/northeast) at 6 knots (7 mph), ½ mile visibility with moderate snow and icing, low-level windshear, and clear air turbulence conditions with overcast skies. The base of the cloud layer was recorded at 500 feet above the ground.
     
  35. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Some things just need to be repeated for better effect.
    (a quirk with some browsers)
     
  36. mryan75

    mryan75 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Heck, let's go flying! :eek:

    And winds from N-NE means worsening weather on the way. Hard to believe you could get worse than that.
     
  37. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    In situations of drifting snow, AWOS often gets thrown off and reports an abnormally low visibility and ceilings. The machine tells you '1/2 mile' and 'indef' yet you can see the grain elevator 2 miles away. I wouldn't put too much weight on that particular sensor reading.
     
  38. mryan75

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  39. Tantalum

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    Facepalm intensifies
    upload_2019-12-3_11-21-26.png
     
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  40. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Plenty of other AWOS in the area to confirm/disprove the readings of the 9V9 airport.