Parts Price

4130 can be heat treated up to about 180 ksi depending on form and thickness according to MIL-HDBK-5, though in most cases you'd be better off with a different alloy if you want to go that high; 4130 would be rather brittle at that strength. It seems unlikely a seat bracket would be designed to need such a high strength material... but of course you'd need to be sure.
Does that heat-treatment involve carburizing? Commonly done for case-hardening of lower-carbon steels. I've done that, too. Baking the steel in a bed of charcoal and (sometimes) cyanide drives the carbon into the steel.
 
Does that heat-treatment involve carburizing? Commonly done for case-hardening of lower-carbon steels. I've done that, too. Baking the steel in a bed of charcoal and (sometimes) cyanide drives the carbon into the steel.
No, just a straight heat, quench, and temper. But you can't heat treat thick sections as high because the core won't quench fast enough.
 
My favorite example of parts insanity. I don't have the Gates part # anymore, but it's about $20 or so at an auto parts store. The Piper sticker magically turns into a $170 part at Univar.

EDIT - It's a Gates 9380, $13 on Amazon.
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but if you fly with that, you're pretty much begging to fall out of the sky! (/sarcasm)

The rules require the owner to participate in making the part but I don't see anything prohibiting you from sharing the information you collected to make it. BTW, "schematics" generally refers to electrical circuit diagrams; a drawing of a mechanical part is just a "drawing".
thank you for the correction on "drawing" vs "schematic" language! I should probably get that right before I show up to a machine shop and have them build this!
 
That's what I love about my Maule. The type certificate actually lists some parts with their NAPA parts ID. Replacing those parts with a new item from the NAPA car parts store is completely legitimate. A simple example if the cigarette lighter charge port on the dash. The ceramic insulator inside the original cracked and it stopped working. A TSO'd adapter would have cost $97.05 from Chief Aircraft. The NAPA replacement was only $12.49. The Maule was originally type certified under the old CAA. The process they used to get parts approved on the TC may not work with current FAA rules. Still, it makes me happy to fly a Maule rather than a Cessna, Piper or similar with all TSO'd parts. Parts for my Maule have completely reasonable prices, and that has allowed me to continue flying into retirement.
 
That's what I love about my Maule. The type certificate actually lists some parts with their NAPA parts ID. Replacing those parts with a new item from the NAPA car parts store is completely legitimate. A simple example if the cigarette lighter charge port on the dash. The ceramic insulator inside the original cracked and it stopped working. A TSO'd adapter would have cost $97.05 from Chief Aircraft. The NAPA replacement was only $12.49. The Maule was originally type certified under the old CAA. The process they used to get parts approved on the TC may not work with current FAA rules. Still, it makes me happy to fly a Maule rather than a Cessna, Piper or similar with all TSO'd parts. Parts for my Maule have completely reasonable prices, and that has allowed me to continue flying into retirement.
I did extensive work on an Maule M4. I like that airplane. As an aircraft mechanic with machining and welding experience, there was almost nothing on that airframe that I couldn't make, or use an industrial substitute. Here in Canada, if I bought that model, I would immediately register it in the Owner-Maintenance category just so I could legally make new parts.

The joke around the shop was that Maules are "certified homebuilts." Dirt simple airplanes, for the most part.
 
If I go through the hassle of identifying all the materials and getting the schematics so a new one can be CNC'd and approved by my A&P
Except you’re A&P cannot approve the part. He can only install it per Part 43. Bottomline, of all the Part 21 part production approval methods the OPP route is the most flexible and least restrictive of all of them. An while you believe it’s a “one-time” event for the OEM its not. Its more of an ongoing process for the OEM or PMA producer as they must continually keep track of all parts produced under their approvals from the raw materials to vendors to the finish part. And all that accountability has a cost. And so on.

why not allow me to produce 20 of them and hand them to other arrow owners so they can use?
Because the OPP authorization is just for your aircraft. Now get 20 other owners involved at the same time and your golden. For example, there was a group of owners who combined forces and OPP’d complete sets of Cessna flap tracks for all their aircraft.

Or at a minimum, let me share my schematics and all the research done did so they can use it for their own work?
As noted, there is nothing that prevents that. Some have even tried to consolidate things like this guy. OPPs are simply not used much at the Part 91 level mainly because both owners and mechanics do not understand the process. At the 135 and 121 levels OPPs are used on a regular basis for all sorts of parts.

There's no getting around them or modifying them in any way.
Not at all. You can legally install anything you want on your aircraft provided you learn and understand how those rules actually work. For example, there are two routes to install parts on your TC'd aircraft: either as a Part 21 replacement part or as a Part 43 alteration part. In very general terms, the Part 21 route keeps the type design intact so those parts must conform to the type design, ie., must be approved in some fashion. However, with a Part 43 alteration, the type design is altered so the "approval" moves from the part per se up to the entire alteration. It is how I can legally install an off-the-shelf "non-approved" marine radio into a TC'd 172 or similar.

The type certificate actually lists some parts with their NAPA parts ID.
Interesting. By “type certificate” you mean the parts manual? As to CAR 3, you’ll find most legacy SELs were certified under CAR 3 or even CAR 4a. So they all use the same rules when it comes to parts and what can be installed.
 
Except you’re A&P cannot approve the part. He can only install it per Part 43. Bottomline, of all the Part 21 part production approval methods the OPP route is the most flexible and least restrictive of all of them. An while you believe it’s a “one-time” event for the OEM its not. Its more of an ongoing process for the OEM or PMA producer as they must continually keep track of all parts produced under their approvals from the raw materials to vendors to the finish part. And all that accountability has a cost. And so on.


Because the OPP authorization is just for your aircraft. Now get 20 other owners involved at the same time and your golden. For example, there was a group of owners who combined forces and OPP’d complete sets of Cessna flap tracks for all their aircraft.


As noted, there is nothing that prevents that. Some have even tried to consolidate things like this guy. OPPs are simply not used much at the Part 91 level mainly because both owners and mechanics do not understand the process. At the 135 and 121 levels OPPs are used on a regular basis for all sorts of parts.


Not at all. You can legally install anything you want on your aircraft provided you learn and understand how those rules actually work. For example, there are two routes to install parts on your TC'd aircraft: either as a Part 21 replacement part or as a Part 43 alteration part. In very general terms, the Part 21 route keeps the type design intact so those parts must conform to the type design, ie., must be approved in some fashion. However, with a Part 43 alteration, the type design is altered so the "approval" moves from the part per se up to the entire alteration. It is how I can legally install an off-the-shelf "non-approved" marine radio into a TC'd 172 or similar.


Interesting. By “type certificate” you mean the parts manual? As to CAR 3, you’ll find most legacy SELs were certified under CAR 3 or even CAR 4a. So they all use the same rules when it comes to parts and what can be installed.
Per the usual, thank you for filling in the considerable gaps in my knowledge on how this stuff works :)
My previous understanding was mostly correct (I think), but I did not know that you could rely on work done by others. Nor did I know that there was a difference between a replacement part and an alteration part. I considered everything to just be a replacement part in nature.

All this said it's a moot point with my A&P since he has shown on two occasions to not being willing to entertain the idea of owner produced anything. Maybe that'll change if I do the legwork and print out the regs and make it easy for him. We'll see!
 
Maybe that'll change if I do the legwork and print out the regs and make it easy for him. We'll see!
This is probably the foremost article written on owner produced parts. Using it as a guide, the part you end up with will be equal to a PMA part approval. Perhaps give your mechanic a copy and see what he says since his only part is to install it.
Owner Produced Parts by Bill O'Brien
 
from personal experience from both sides of certified and exp with same plane... with an experimental 1989 c172 and finding parts. ... I think Bonefish Pete in saying Textron wants the legacy fleet parted out.... obviously to sell new planes, but mostly to eliminate the liability.

we needed new door lock assemblies and wasn't available from Cessna and salvage yards no help and quoted ridiculous price....turns out they r just filing cabinet cylinders and about $12 with 2 keys.

needed a brake caliper.... $350 from Cessna..... brought old one to CNC shop to copy and got new one for $50 and works great.

needed window handle, found exact part in a classic car parts catalog for about $12

point being there's nothing super special about 50 year old parts..... many were actually supplied by car part suppliers and can be easily replicated if not for FAA, even for non critical parts.

a buddy needed a new hinge for his c177, it cost us about $20 to make identical for original part costing well over $100 and not available.
VARMA and Owner Produced Parts
 
Because the OPP authorization is just for your aircraft. Now get 20 other owners involved at the same time and your golden. For example, there was a group of owners who combined forces and OPP’d complete sets of Cessna flap tracks for all their aircraft.
You do need to be careful with a group OPP. A bunch of Mooney guys had to remove their Johnson bar down lock blocks as the FAA determined that the did not meet the OPP criteria.

I forget the exact details, but the FAA decided that each owner did not do at least one of the OPP tasks.
 
I forget the exact details, but the FAA decided that each owner did not do at least one of the OPP tasks.
Its not the first time thats happened. Usually there is one person that makes a part in his basement then convinces his buddies to "buy" one from him for their aircraft. Other than each owner should fully understand how OPPs work, one step I require to keep things in order is for an owner to make a mx records entry that identifies the OPP part and that it was produced under 21.9 per XXX approved data.
 
My favorite example of parts insanity. I don't have the Gates part # anymore, but it's about $20 or so at an auto parts store. The Piper sticker magically turns into a $170 part at Univar.

EDIT - It's a Gates 9380, $13 on Amazon.
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Great example of up charging for a simple v belt that’s been available for decades…

…..we used a Warner or Cole hersey brand oil pressure sensor for our exp c172….. the part was $32 from distributor, told Piper sold it for over $300. Same part, same supplier, only difference was sticker. Boat manufacturers do the same thing like in your photos, simply put a sticker on a car part a charge 5x the cost for same exact part….. it really ****ed buyers off seeing how they were being scammed and that the manufacturers would not even go to trouble to repackage it as in your photo.

A start up company compiled all the cross referenced numbers, along with many online forums started sharing some info when they bought a branded part and posted the GM or Ford part # (most inboard engines are converted automotive engines), so marine manufacturers started losing sales to auto parts stores……. They finally started repackaging the same part to make it more difficult to find substitutes but the info was out there….. so you could now walk into a NAPA store and tell them you have a 2012 MERCRUISER v8 and they could look up cross reference to their aftermarket part, and you would walk out with it compared to ordering it from Merc dealer and waiting and paying 5x the cost. Not only did you save on being able to buy a GM part, but with the GM part # you could save more on buying a an aftermarket part. Goes to show how pampas Piper can be in not even repacking the part which would cost nothing compared to the 10x cost margin knowing that if you get the part elsewhere it would net be legal to install in most cases.

We only use original GM parts from legitimate source on our v8 c172 as aftermarket suppliers can be sketchy and distributors change suppliers often, but most such aircraft parts are typically legacy parts from Cole Hersey or Warner that were used on every thing from 1950-1980 cars to tractors, and still produced.

Thanks for posting photo
 
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