Part 61 vs Part 141 schools - Which is best for the money???

Skydreamer2015

Skydreamer2015

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Skydreamer2015
Like the title says...which route is the best way to go for my money? I'm about to move to an area where I have the choice of either one. I have been training at a Part 61 school & didn't have the choice. Where I'm moving to the Part 61 airplanes are cheaper to rent than the 141 school, but the training hours are lower at the 141 school. What should I do?
 
Don't listen to any school that advertises they can get you your PPL in X amount of hours. Find the cheapest plane/instructor maybe try to barter with an independent CFI. It all depends on the student. You can get your license in 40 hours at a 61 or 141 school. Or you can get your license in 200 hours at a 61 or 141 school. It boils down to preference.
 
If it's just cost at PP level, then go for the Part 61. Part 141 offers very little advantage at PP level. I should know, I chose to go Part 141.
 
pt 141 may advertise you can get your license in 35 hours but because of how the lessons are structured and the "checks" are done it would be impossible to do in 35 hours.
 
Seanaldinho said:
pt 141 may advertise you can get your license in 35 hours but because of how the lessons are structured and the "checks" are done it would be impossible to do in 35 hours.
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Some budget for the 35 hours in the syllabus, so your statement may be misleading.

The potential student should know that the national average of all PPL training is around 70 hours. Those numbers tend to inflate inversely proportional to recency of training.
 
Doesn't matter.

A VAST majority don't finish in the minimums ether, anyone selling you on a price based on mins is not someone you want to deal with.

Biggest factor is hourly rates and most of all the CFI you use, I'd want a ATP/CFI who instructs on the side from their pilot job or as a retired professional pilot.

Best deals I've seen are freelance instructors who use their own aircraft or have a agreement with a school to use theirs, they tend to be higher time and more professional.


AGAIN, the QUALITY of the instructor is by far the largest factor when it comes to bang for the buck.
 
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Unless you're aspiring to a 121 career and the 141 school is associated with a University, AND you aren't using GI bill benefits, 61 is probably going to be your most cost-effective route.
 
Thanks guys! I have my PPL and 250 hours and will be chasing my dream to fly for my money. I will be taking 4-6 months to do nothing, but flight train and hopefully get all my tickets up to MEI. My wife will be taking care of bringing home the bacon while I train. My kids are all grown up now and this is the perfect time for me to chase my dream! But I want to be wise with my money because this is a one shot deal. I blew it when I was younger and don't want to do that again!!
 
It's not all doom and gloom at 141. I showed up with my PPl and was quoted $24k for my Comm, Multi-Instrument (Did the instrument in the multi too) and got out under budget at just over $22K. You don't HAVE to go over budget at 141 is the point.
 
LDJones said:
Unless you're aspiring to a 121 career and the 141 school is associated with a University, AND you aren't using GI bill benefits, 61 is probably going to be your most cost-effective route.
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This. Even if your plans were going to go fly for the airlines, nothing guarantees you finish within the 35hr minimum.

And it's well documented in many areas, that doing just the minimums does not make your competent or safe.

And the initial training budget is just the beginning. Within 5-15 hours of finishing your PPL, you'll quickly figure out you're lacking in some skills and will engage the CFI once again.

Part 61 fits more folks and turns out plenty of good pilots. Plus many of the really good independent instructors operate under these rules and you may find a better Part 61 CFI than a short day wonder headed to the airlines working for the Part 141.
 
Don't expect to finish at the minimums. Finding the right instructor that you get along with and will make you a safe and successful pilot is most important.
 
Skydreamer2015 said:
Thanks guys! I have my PPL and 250 hours and will be chasing my dream to fly for my money. I will be taking 4-6 months to do nothing, but flight train and hopefully get all my tickets up to MEI. My wife will be taking care of bringing home the bacon while I train. My kids are all grown up now and this is the perfect time for me to chase my dream! But I want to be wise with my money because this is a one shot deal. I blew it when I was younger and don't want to do that again!!
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Honestly, the only place I know of someone pulling this off 141 is at ATP. It gets a lot of knocks, but that's exactly what one of my fellow regional pilots did....ab initio through CFI in six months, instructed for another year to build time and got on with SkyWest.

Another alternative might be purchase a cheap twin (there are a TON of them out there under $50K....some under $20K), hire an instructor and fly the crap out of the thing getting all your ratings and building time. Do a lot of x-ctry flying at 55% power. Do a bunch of it under the hood or in weather.
 
I would probably not pick the cheapest plane/instructor, just based upon price per hour..

61/141 isn't as important as finding the right instructor, a plane that is reliable and available, etc.

Some people do better with 141, others better with the flexibility of 61. All of them do better with a CFI that works well with their method of learning and knows that they are doing. All of them do better when planes are easier to access, if they get the itch to practice under particular conditions.
 
You want to go career, forget ATP.

ATP type grads are a dime a dozen, and a fresh cookie cutter CPL is all the same.

My 2 cents

Get your PPL in a glider

Power add on in a Citabria or such, get some aerobatics too while you're at it.

IFR in with someone who's worked as a IFR pilot, use sims for this, not just to meet requirements but to master the skills.

Shot gun hours (safety pilot) with another pilot.

Get hour multi and single CPL

Get a job.


Do it as cheap as possible.
 
James331 said:
You want to go career, forget ATP.

ATP type grads are a dime a dozen, and a fresh cookie cutter CPL is all the same.

My 2 cents

Get your PPL in a glider

Power add on in a Citabria or such, get some aerobatics too while you're at it.

IFR in with someone who's worked as a IFR pilot, use sims for this, not just to meet requirements but to master the skills.

Shot gun hours (safety pilot) with another pilot.

Get hour multi and single CPL

Get a job.


Do it as cheap as possible.
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Know anyone who accomplished the above in a few months like the OP has planned? Not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't know any real world examples. I do know some ATP grads (and certainly not a promoter of that route necessarily...but facts are facts.)
 
It's just availability.


There's a AG school in GA that'll get ya done quite fast too, also your CFI will have a couple thousand more hours than a ATP Inc. CFI.


IMO ATP inc. is top dollar for bottom rung instruction.
 
....and train frequently. If you are able to fly several times a week this will accelerate the learning process and prevent having to re-learn.
James331 said:
You want to go career, forget ATP.

ATP type grads are a dime a dozen, and a fresh cookie cutter CPL is all the same.

My 2 cents

Get your PPL in a glider

Power add on in a Citabria or such, get some aerobatics too while you're at it.

IFR in with someone who's worked as a IFR pilot, use sims for this, not just to meet requirements but to master the skills.

Shot gun hours (safety pilot) with another pilot.

Get hour multi and single CPL

Get a job.


Do it as cheap as possible.
Click to expand...
 
I liked the 61 route for me... more of a study at home type of deal and eliminated a lot of the costly "ground" that they wanted me to pay for. The school I used offered both. Finished PPL in 45 hours and went straight into instrument. I'm sure the structure of 141 works better for some but based on the quality of the instructors I had access to 61 was best.
 
Skydreamer2015 said:
Thanks guys! I have my PPL and 250 hours and will be chasing my dream to fly for my money. I will be taking 4-6 months to do nothing, but flight train and hopefully get all my tickets up to MEI. My wife will be taking care of bringing home the bacon while I train. My kids are all grown up now and this is the perfect time for me to chase my dream! But I want to be wise with my money because this is a one shot deal. I blew it when I was younger and don't want to do that again!!
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That would have been worthwhile to know in your initial post.
Good luck.
 
Having instructed at both, my recommendation is that you go Part 61. At a 141 school, instructors are to some extent strait-jacketed...you have so many hours to complete a given task whether you like it or not. I really hated to teach Part 141 ground school because I simply could not fit what the students needed to know into the time allotted. Another consideration is the transfer of your Part 61 time to the 141 school....it is not an hour-for-hour swap. You will take a hit....only 50 percent of your Part 61 time will be credited toward 141 certification.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Having instructed at both, my recommendation is that you go Part 61. At a 141 school, instructors are to some extent strait-jacketed...you have so many hours to complete a given task whether you like it or not. I really hated to teach Part 141 ground school because I simply could not fit what the students needed to know into the time allotted. Another consideration is the transfer of your Part 61 time to the 141 school....it is not an hour-for-hour swap. You will take a hit....only 50 percent of your Part 61 time will be credited toward 141 certification.

Bob Gardner
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Listen to Bob. He knows what he's talking about.
 
Captain said:
It's not all doom and gloom at 141. I showed up with my PPl and was quoted $24k for my Comm, Multi-Instrument (Did the instrument in the multi too) and got out under budget at just over $22K. You don't HAVE to go over budget at 141 is the point.
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This. I got my PPL 141 and they said around 12k but I was able to finish just over 9k. Pretty much at or below the going rate these days for very high quality training.
 
Just as other's have stated, if your intention is on professional pilot certification, then Part 141 will be the most beneficial to you. No matter how many old codgers on here complain about it, it's a fantastic program and worked very well for me and thousands of other very safe and knowledgeable pilots. The instructors were on salary and I never felt rushed to complete any portion. Conversely, I felt extremely rushed by the hourly, transient flight instructor at the original Part 61 so don't listen to any guff about it being reversed.
Being able to practice in the simulator and then demonstrate in the aircraft was spectacular. Having confidence in the instruments, radio calls and procedures was invaluable. It allowed me to learn to "fly" and feel the airplane as the aforementioned was now second nature.
(Additionally, the minimum hours is absolutely possible as I was ready for checkride at 38 hours.)

If your intention is on using aviation privately, I might recommend - as others have - a part 61 school. Albeit for some different reasons. At a Part 61 school you will have more logged hours for a few reasons. One is, that you'll be learning "everything" for your PPL rather than gaining some of the "higher" knowledge during your continued training that you would have at at Part 141 school. What I mean is, you'd gain it later during your instrument/commercial/etc. Does that make sense? They won't have any simulation and it will be more expensive for you, because you'll have to do everything in the airplane. However, you'll spend less on recurrent training because your initial training will be more extensive.

Having said those things, finding an instructor that meshes with your personality is above either one of those. Damn the money, get an instructor that is able to teach you right, and teach you well. You want a mentor for life, if that makes sense. You want someone that you can call on, will push your limits, and **** you off to get it right.

I hope that helps.
 
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Download the 70-page ebook at www.FreeFlyBook.com. It covers all the ins and outs of picking a school and an instructor. But generally speaking, I contend that a Part 61 program offers a lot more flexibility. If I was advising a friend, I'd say go with Part 61.
 
I don't understand why It would depend on whether or not you want an airline job..??

Part 141 is very structured. Part 61 is much less structured. One isn't better than the other (although some 141 guys like to think so), it's really more personal preference. Overall I prefered the freedom and flexibility of 61.
 
Either one will work. You need a GOOD instructor. You need a DE that works with the school (or is part of the school). If you are in it for the long run 30 hours one way or the other wont matter much. I kind of prefer the schools where the DE is head of the program. It gets everyone on the same page. The DE wont throw any suprises. But places that work with the same DE over and over work well. Really, it is the IFR rating that is the hardest and where the most glitches appear. If youve got the time, enroll in one of those two week programs where you graduate with the ticket. They work!

Whatever you do, you end up teaching yourself most of it. I know thats what I did.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Either one will work. You need a GOOD instructor. You need a DE that works with the school (or is part of the school). If you are in it for the long run 30 hours one way or the other wont matter much. I kind of prefer the schools where the DE is head of the program. It gets everyone on the same page. The DE wont throw any suprises. But places that work with the same DE over and over work well. Really, it is the IFR rating that is the hardest and where the most glitches appear. If youve got the time, enroll in one of those two week programs where you graduate with the ticket. They work!

Whatever you do, you end up teaching yourself most of it. I know thats what I did.
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What surprises, the entire test is in the PTS, if you're flying to PTS standards you can't fail it.
 
Kritchlow said:
I don't understand why It would depend on whether or not you want an airline job..??

Part 141 is very structured. Part 61 is much less structured. One isn't better than the other (although some 141 guys like to think so), it's really more personal preference. Overall I prefered the freedom and flexibility of 61.
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Um, this whole thread is about guys spouting how 61 is better. Not a single 141 guy claiming superiority.

Facts is facts. Based on this thread alone it's the 61 guys with the complex and proclaiming superiority....not the other way around.
 
Kritchlow said:
I don't understand why It would depend on whether or not you want an airline job..??

Part 141 is very structured. Part 61 is much less structured. One isn't better than the other (although some 141 guys like to think so), it's really more personal preference. Overall I prefered the freedom and flexibility of 61.
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The benefit cited related to 121 is the R-ATP option if you go through one affiliated with an accredited college program. You can't get that 61. But one could argue with the money saved you could probably go fly a cheap 150 for another 500 hours and gain valuable experience.
 
LDJones said:
The benefit cited related to 121 is the R-ATP option if you go through one affiliated with an accredited college program. You can't get that 61. But one could argue with the money saved you could probably go fly a cheap 150 for another 500 hours and gain valuable experience.
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Or get a job and get paid to that build 500hrs while having less debt :D
 
Captain said:
Um, this whole thread is about guys spouting how 61 is better. Not a single 141 guy claiming superiority.

Facts is facts. Based on this thread alone it's the 61 guys with the complex and proclaiming superiority....not the other way around.
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That was a general statement, not a summary of this thread.
 
I don't think either is all that important. What's important is having the money on hand and being consistent and flying a lot without big gaps in either one.

After that, it's all down to hourly rate.

And way before any of this, it's about finding a good instructor.
 
I've trained at both and I've instructed at both. When it comes to any flight training, it's all about the CFI. Period. It doesn't matter whether you select a Part 141 or Part 61 flight school, or use a "freelance" flight instructor - the quality of your training will be largely determined by individual flight instructor's skills, abilities, experience and knowledge. The best flight school facilities, training curriculum or the newest, best equipped training aircraft can not compensate for a mediocre or burned out flight instructor. A good instructor can compensate for just about anything. No single source of flight training has cornered the market on good instructors - they are where you find them. In fact, because of the nature of the beast, it is often very difficult to find flight instructors with any significant amount of meaningful "real world" experience in many flight schools. They progress up through the ranks and the sum total of their aeronautical experience has all been obtained in the training environment. You need to find that "golden CFI", the person who is that special combination of effective teacher and has the background and experience to go with it and who is able to "communicate" with you. Instructors like that aren't under every rock, they aren't at every flight school, FBO or club, but they are out there - you have to seek them out.
 
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