Panel Envy Sux

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by 455 Bravo Uniform, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    While you're in there rip out the stuff you don't use, I.e storm scope. Take the lighter weight and less drag of reduced antennas and run with it.
     
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  2. catmandu

    catmandu Cleared for Takeoff

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    Oh wow. You will never be able to answer 18z on the medical honestly now, having been in avionics denial for a year now. Better contact Dr. Bruce.
     
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  3. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure those placards are required by an AD, and the only reason they were added.
     
  4. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    hey how fast does that thing go on 260HP?
     
  5. arkvet

    arkvet Line Up and Wait

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    Congrats! You’re going to love those upgrades. And I won’t quote the post from an earlier reply but ignore the BS regarding G5’s not playing nicely with “other gps”. Bunch of BS. My Toga has a pair of G5’s and and IFD 550. Coupled to a century 41 AP. Thing of beauty.

    If that HSI ever dies on you the logical replacement will be a G5 and it will play very nicely with the IFD.
     
  6. SWOdaile

    SWOdaile Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a 420W. I think we are part of a unique, and small, club.
     
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  7. sferguson524

    sferguson524 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Better than the panel in my plane... Oh wait, I don't own one. :(
     
  8. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    You’re correct, my OCD cause me to place all that verbiage on a single placard using the smallest allowable font (1/10”) and white on black and move it somewhere less conspicuous.
     
  9. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Trues out at 143 kts. Has wheel pants, flap gap seals, and a mostly intact nose-gear fairing thingy. Guessing the canards add drag.
     
  10. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Thats not bad at all. Figured that's around 14gph but the 182 has pretty large fuel tanks so the range should still be pretty decent. Fuel injected right?
     
  11. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yes, injected. 14 is a good guess. I plan for 15gph, get more like 13 at about 150 deg F ROP (1 egt gauge). 75 usable, so good theoretically for 4 hrs easy/safely.

    I’ve puttered around taking folks sightseeing 70-80 kts and can get 8.5-9 gph out of her.
     
  12. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    If you can get through the older video quality and cheesy music, my plane is in the final still shot scene and the former owner is the one quoted at the end. He’s the one that had it converted in 1987. He sold it 2012 and I bought it from the owner he sold it to in spring of 2017.

     
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  13. Fallsrider

    Fallsrider Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Great post. Who we compare ourselves to greatly affects our thinking. Here I sit with dreams of getting my PPL as I get closer to retirement. And an even bigger part of that dream is someday owning my own plane, or at least a part of a plane. A plane with modest capabilities and a basic panel seems pretty exciting to me. But I guess if I had been flying one for some time, I would have panel envy, too!

    I have a similar experience with my travel trailer. It is 24 years old, but it meets our needs. I tow it with a 14-year-old Suburban with 199k miles on it. My wife and I will go to one or two RV shows each year, and for a few hours afterwards, I am a little green with envy. But I come home and take a look at our trailer that is in pretty good shape for its age, and I realize that I am blessed to be able to go camping anytime and pretty much anywhere we want to. We paid cash for both the camper and the Suburban, so it is pretty inexpensive to keep and maintain.

    From where I sit, the OP's plane looks pretty nice!
     
  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, ya don't buy a bigger engine to go faster... Excepting any aerodynamic effects from the conversion, and assuming the plane went 130-140 knots beforehand, the increased power would mean anywhere from about 135-146 knots. Decreasing drag always pays bigger dividends.

    To get that, I'm guessing it was a pretty good bird to begin with, and likely a P or Q?
     
  15. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    1976 182P

    The thing 260 hp does get me is off the ground fast...almost too fast. I lost airspeed indication on take off from KCGF last summer. “Full power...oil pressure green...full rpm...airspeed alive...wait...no airspeed? Umm...” then I’m off the ground already. Runway was shortened due to ongoing construction and frankly I was just shocked to actually not see airspeed alive. I figured I fold it up if I tried to land as I was thinking of the shortened runway. Told tower I needed to come back. I still had too much adrenaline and so on downwind I told tower I was going to go over the lake to figure things out. Kept climbing (airspeed showed 140kt climb at this point - wrong of course). I was cleared thru Cleveland Bravo and was going to just head all the way back home to familiar KLAF without airspeed. As I was leveling off, I heard a terrible squealing. That was it, WTF is going on, declared E right there. Circling descent into KBKL. Had the tower read back my airspeed before I got into the pattern. Best landing ever. Next day A&P cleaned bug guts out of pitot and I hugged the controller. Left the next day when I decided I’m not gonna give up. Sqweal was leaky pitot-static that showed up at biennial check later that month.

    Sorry about the book.
     
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  16. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Doing pattern work with the ASI covered up was one of the best lessons ever.
     
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  17. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How much money do you have that you don't need and can't find any other use for? If that number is in the multiples of thousands, then upgrade your panel. Otherwise, it really ain't that bad.

    As to your thread title, Panel Envy doesn't suck, as long as it is other people envying your panel.
     
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  18. Aviator305

    Aviator305 Pre-Flight

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    Is it strange that in this day in age I still prefer the look of a clean six-pack to a glass panel? I can't help it, but it's true.
     
  19. dmcummins

    dmcummins Pre-Flight

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    I’m hopeing to spring for a new audio panel. I’ll replace the radios when they no longer work. Other than that I can’t see spending the money.
     

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  20. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My partner and I have noted that some of the re-done glass panels don't have enough "stuff" on them. For example, here's our panel:

    IMG_3588.jpg

    And, here's Don Kaye's beautifully redone panel:
    Don Kaye N9148W Panel.JPG

    See? It just doesn't have enough "stuff" on it! :rofl:

    We're really hoping to do a G500 TXi at some point, but we've gotta make sure that it still has "stuff" everywhere. :D
     
  21. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    I think your panel looks just fine, but I'm wondering what happened to the etch-a-sketch. And the gear shifter on the throttle quadrant -- it seems to have vanished as well.
     
  22. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Beyond 100LL, it's only the 3Cs for me when it comes to upgrade money: Cabin, cruise, and climb.
     
  23. Aviator305

    Aviator305 Pre-Flight

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    YOUR panel is my dream panel. It’s not just the amount of stuff. It’s the stuff in it and the way it all looks.
     
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  24. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Thanks! We sure like it now, after the first upgrade... And it'd be really great, if the KI-256 (attitude indicator + flight director) wasn't dying a slow death. When we did the first upgrade (GTN 750 + GMA 350c + GTX 345 + FlightStream 510) in 2017, there was still an awful lot of movement in the market in terms of things to replace your AI - Garmin, Dynon, more Garmin, autopilots galore, etc. so we decided we'd leave that part of the panel alone and see how it all shook out.

    We really didn't do anything to the left of the radio stack besides removing the old Argus 7000/CE (just to the left of where the 750 is now, with the KI-525A's slaving control mounted in the cover plate). It came from the Mooney factory looking that good. So, we need to be sure that whatever future upgrades we do don't screw that up!
     
  25. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Exactly - that's a friggin' good looking panel!
     
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  26. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I knew there was something wrong with mine, not enough "stuff"
    fullsizeoutput_46d.jpeg
     
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  27. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I dunno, I think your panel looks really good! You don't have huge swaths of emptiness on the left side, and the Piper logo fills the big hole on the right quite nicely. You've got lots of nice gear too - I've never seen a panel that nice in either aesthetics or gear in a PA28!
     
  28. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I thought the sarcasm was obvious from the other post about "not enough stuff" - but thanks, I didn't put this in, the prior owner did and I agree he did a fantastic job.
     
  29. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    OK, @Aviator305 and @kayoh190 - Do you think a pair of G5s would screw up the aesthetics of the panel? Or make it better?

    We've been talking about a G500 TXi, but we'll be looking at some other configurations as well, one of which is dual G5s or something like it.
     
  30. Aviator305

    Aviator305 Pre-Flight

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    You’re asking me for MY opinion, and it seems like I’m in the minority these days. My preferred look would be a regular attitude indicator and a King HSI. If I had to pick glass just based on looks, a pair of G5’s would be better than something like an Aspen (I like the different instruments separated with space in between). To bridge the gap between the modern world and my romanticism about analog stuff, I would love it if the new glass instruments came in a rounded shape instead of squares and rectangles. However, I would not buy new glass based on looks alone. Aspen’s products seem to provide a logical upgrade paths with capabilities that the G5’s may not be able to provide (verify if true on your own).

    Edit: PS I also have a King HSI that I may have to replace in the coming years. When the time comes, I’m going to figure out how much it would cost me for an overhauled unit from Mid-Continental including trading mine in. I will weigh that against the cost of going to G5’s or Aspen.
     
  31. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    First time running this
     

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  32. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Tell ya what... Our HSI is in seemingly wonderful shape. We're still gonna pull it. Would be happy to sell it to ya for when yours quits.
     
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  33. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Those EI tach replacement units are really slick. A great way to get a lot more capability without having to do too much rework.

    Unfortunately, on the Mooney the MP and tach gauges are the smaller size. :(
     
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  34. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I 100% agree with you... I'm not yet to the point of buying glass but when I do these guys seem like a front runner:
    https://aerovonics.com/
     
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  35. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I love how it fits into the pilot's primary panel.

    Haven't flown it yet but I assume it would be pretty dang nice to have it right there, especially for gentlemen that use multiple lens glasses (bifocals/trifocals). Personally I wanted to put in the top hole but Dad wanted is as shown. I left plenty of wire on that connector to allow relocation just about anywhere in the panel with minimal effort. The fuel gauge is the only required instrument remaining on the copilot panel which could also be easily moved to the pilot side. Its pretty sweet how much power is packed into these boxes.

    A quick note: The pilot's attitude indicator was connected to a dedicated roof mounted GA35 antenna for GPS position, the copilot G5 was connected to the GTN via RS232 for that GPS position, that same RS232 channel includes GPS CDI data. I don't think there is a way to get all data and annunciations on third G5, chewed on trying anther GAD29 but figured its not worth the hours and money. Even with two GAD29s I don't think the VOR OBS would work correctly on the second one, also would not get the autopilot annunciation over there either.

    upload_2019-2-4_9-5-57.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  36. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The control wheels block so much of the panel I figured I'd post a shot before they are installed. I'm down to cowl, sidewalls, G5 (copilot) calibration, and paperwork.

    I'm not really a fan of the red interior but maybe someday I'll all go away too. I am semi-planning new switch panel overlays to ditch the wood panel look.

    The white sticker placards will go away too.

    The yokes plug into the panel, the old vacuum gauge hole is where the pilot's yoke connector is. There is one cable (14 wires in it) coming out of the wheel so I refused to hardwire all of them in making it a PITA to work around.

    Can't wait to take this out flying all day and check it all out. I'm really curious how well the Aerospace logic fuel gauge and the Cies digital transmitters work. I had it leveled on wing jacks, and measured the entire fuel load manually when calibrating it. I'm expecting fantastic accuracy so hopefully it works.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  37. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    You obviously just need an MVP 50 like Don or a EDM 930... Although I'm not entirely sure why he kept the Shadin.
     
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  38. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Looks good!!
     
  39. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Man, you tagged me and I’m *still* a day late and a dollar short. :p

    I think a pair of G5s would look good. I don’t think it’ll necessarily look better, but not really any worse and you get all that extra capability!
     
  40. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Or a G500 TXi with the engine monitoring built in...