Paint Stripping

[GlennAB1]

Is Boeing going to come out and do the determination for the public? I do have a magnet.

Boeing has a GO Team, give them a call.

Like I said, a magnet won't work, that's why there's an NDT pocedure.

 

[GlennAB1]

Don't believe me about the magnet? Here's what McFarlane Aviation says:

"Using a magnet to determine if a cable is galvanized steel or stainless steel alloy can be unreliable
as stainless steel can display magnetic properties which can make alloy discrimination difficult. The
unreliability comes from variation in the amount of magnetic permeability found in the stainless
steel cable and from strength differences in the magnets used. Stainless steel cables become
magnetic in the process of cold working stainless steel wires into cable. The amount of magnetic
permeability varies with the amount of cold working the cable was subject to. It is also possible
cables in-service will become more magnetic over time as the work harden through use."

For full text, click on "How To Determine Flight Cable Composition", here:
http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?CategoryID=47&ID=36218961&

P.S. Yes, I noticed they referred to "stainless steel"

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Tell us how you know what the guys in the field call any of these chemicals?

The containers are labeled. You would tell your assistant to get a container of paint stripper or paint remover, a part number such as PR-3500 if you had more than one type on the shelf. Acetone would have a different label than the paint remover.

 

[bluerooster]

Skimming thru your product links Your stripper is known as a Jellied Acetone, generically.
the treatments are classed as etches.
there are lots of products out there so read carefully. None of them are good for you.

I used that system because there is only one washdown step. Where you remove all stripper residue. No further washing untill after it's been painted. Unlike the acid etch then alodine process where you must washdown between each step. Thus increasing the chances of driving corrosive agents into seams.
And the system that I used works quite well, and is easy to apply and remove. All in a days work.

 

[Getonit]

RE-read post #3.

Mea culpa. The info got lost in all of the background noise.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

OH that's right, you have a beech 18, the beech that ain't a beechcrap.

no Tom....flaps are aluminum....ailerons are aluminum....fuselage is aluminum....90% of the tail....take a guess? aluminum.

 

[Tom-D]

The containers are labeled. You would tell your assistant to get a container of paint stripper or paint remover, a part number such as PR-3500 if you had more than one type on the shelf. Acetone would have a different label than the paint remover.
View attachment 52028View attachment 52029

Jellied Acetone is a stripper, not the product you show. It is simply a solvent based stripper that professional paint shops use in bulk.

 

[Tom-D]

no Tom....flaps are aluminum....ailerons are aluminum....fuselage is aluminum....90% of the tail....take a guess? aluminum.

Beech products are noted for their use of Mag in their products. be very careful what you use to strip mag. and never use alodine 1200 on it. there is a special conversion coating for it.

 

[Tom-D]

Don't believe me about the magnet? Here's what McFarlane Aviation says:

"Using a magnet to determine if a cable is galvanized steel or stainless steel alloy can be unreliable
as stainless steel can display magnetic properties which can make alloy discrimination difficult. The
unreliability comes from variation in the amount of magnetic permeability found in the stainless
steel cable and from strength differences in the magnets used. Stainless steel cables become
magnetic in the process of cold working stainless steel wires into cable. The amount of magnetic
permeability varies with the amount of cold working the cable was subject to. It is also possible
cables in-service will become more magnetic over time as the work harden through use."

For full text, click on "How To Determine Flight Cable Composition", here:
http://www.mcfarlane-aviation.com/Products/?CategoryID=47&ID=36218961&

P.S. Yes, I noticed they referred to "stainless steel"

You do know they look different?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Jellied Acetone is a stripper, not the product you show. It is simply a solvent based stripper that professional paint shops use in bulk.

You're doing it again, contradicting yourself!
Here is your post where you yourself called the PPG product "jellied acetone":


That is this product that I showed in my earlier post -it is the same that you claimed was "jellied acetone":

You make an interesting psychological study. Like some politicians, you post false information, and then you lie or contradict yourself when it is so easily proven what you really said!

The way you act here would make me decide to use anyone else other than you for an A&P. I certainly wouldn't take your advice given your record here.

 

[Tom-D]

You're doing it again, contradicting yourself!
Here is your post where you yourself called the PPG product "jellied acetone":
View attachment 52036

That is this product below:

You make an interesting psychological study. Like some politicians, you post false information, and then you lie or contradict yourself when it is so easily proven what you really said!

The way you act here would make me decide to use anyone else other than you for an A&P. I certainly wouldn't take your advice given your record here.

When you've used any of these products. call me.
there are several of these solvent type strippers, this is just one of them.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

When you've used any of these products. call me.
there are several of these solvent type strippers, this is just one of them.

Why? None of them are called "jellied acetone" as you've asserted. Show some proof that "jellied acetone" is the name of any product.
You've simply contradicted yourself again.


So far in this thread, you've shown:

• You don't know the difference between an acid or a base
• You don't know the difference between various solvents (dichloromethane vs. acetone vs. oil)

And in other threads, you shown:

• Despite being a self-proclaimed metal-smith, you don't know how to spell "zinc" vs. 'zink"
• It's OK for you to use some sort of mystery black sealant to seal an engine case

And there are probably many more simply because I don't read all your threads.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Beech products are noted for their use of Mag in their products. be very careful what you use to strip mag. and never use alodine 1200 on it. there is a special conversion coating for it.

how many Bonanzas have you done?....I bet not many if any.

 

[Tom-D]

how many Bonanzas have you done?....I bet not many if any.

There is a reason for that.

 

[Tom-D]

Why? None of them are called "jellied acetone" as you've asserted. Show some proof that "jellied acetone" is the name of any product.
You've simply contradicted yourself again.


So far in this thread, you've shown:

• You don't know the difference between an acid or a base
• You don't know the difference between various solvents (dichloromethane vs. acetone vs. oil)

And in other threads, you shown:

• Despite being a self-proclaimed metal-smith, you don't know how to spell "zinc" vs. 'zink"
• It's OK for you to use some sort of mystery black sealant to seal an engine case

And there are probably many more simply because I don't read all your threads.

OMG I misspelled a word on the internet.
And Yes I had an engine fail in flight.

But you must turn it personal, says more about you than it does about me.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

OMG I misspelled a word on the internet.
And Yes I had an engine fail in flight.

But you must turn it personal, says more about you than it does about me.

Tom- if you feel it is personal, please feel free to use the "report" button and let the mods decide. You've done more than simply misspelled words, you've shown that you truly don't know the subjects that you speak of.

Based on your posts, I do question your skills and advice, and other can judge from your responses whether I'm being "personal" or whether you do have those skills and that you do provide sound advice.

 

[GlennAB1]

You do know they look different?

Maybe side by side, maybe more so when new, maybe some production runs more than others. You better tell McFarlane, and Boeing for that matter, they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Tom-D]

they don't know what they are talking about.

I'm sure they do, But they don't wok in my shop. We simply order the right part numbers, and trust the documentation that comes with it.

 

[Tom-D]

Let me ask,, If you had 1 cable that was rusty, and 1 that was shiny and bright would you have a clew which one as steel?

 

[GlennAB1]

Let me ask,, If you had 1 cable that was rusty, and 1 that was shiny and bright would you have a clew which one as steel?

Rusty cables are unserviceable. You find a Rusty cable you better be replacing it anyway.

 

[Tom-D]

Tom- if you feel it is personal, please feel free to use the "report" button and let the mods decide. You've done more than simply misspelled words, you've shown that you truly don't know the subjects that you speak of.

Based on your posts, I do question your skills and advice, and other can judge from your responses whether I'm being "personal" or whether you do have those skills and that you do provide sound advice.

I would venture a guess that you have never seen any of my work or had the pleasure to be one of my customers. based upon that I don't believe you know enough to make a judgement about my abilities.
there are folks here that do know me and the aircraft I restore, and I doubt any would agree with you.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Let me ask,, If you had 1 cable that was rusty, and 1 that was shiny and bright would you have a clew which one as steel?

Aside from a "clew" being where a sheet line is attached to a sail, couldn't both cables be steel? Not all steel is stainless.

 

[Tom-D]

Rusty cables are unserviceable. You find a Rusty cable you better be replacing it anyway.

Certainly,, but would it be a steel or a S/steel?

 

[Tom-D]

Aside from a "clew" being where a sheet line is attached to a sail, couldn't both cables be steel? Not all steel is stainless.

At least you are smart enough to figure that out. now figure out what stripper you should use.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I would venture a guess that you have never seen any of my work or had the pleasure to be one of my customers. based upon that I don't believe you know enough to make a judgement about my abilities.
there are folks here that do know me and the aircraft I restore, and I doubt any would agree with you.

I've seen your posts here and the misinformation you supply. I've seen you contradict yourself and even attempt to change quotations (in this thread!).
I've read this incident: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations...ev_id=20150928X72825&ntsbno=WPR15FA268&akey=1
Pictures of your work are here: https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/59000-59499/59203/596383.pdf

I can certainly read about your work here:
"The original engine oil screen remained installed, despite the fact that the engine was equipped with an oil filter. When the oil screen was removed, a significant amount of contaminates consistent with metallic material as well as a significant amount of unidentified black colored substance was observed."

"The crankcase was intact and undamaged. The crankcase halves were split, and the crankcase was visually inspected. It was noted that there was black sealant applied to the crankcase halves mating surfaces, and there was no silk thread noted on the crankcase halve mating surfaces. It was also noted that the black sealant material was found in several of the oil galleys. There were no signs of bearing shift or lock tab elongation. The accessory case displayed damage on the inside of the case; the damage was consistent with impact with the sheered crankshaft gear bolts. All three main bearings remained within their respective bearing supports. Each displayed normal operating and lubrication signatures."

"ll four cylinders remained attached to their respective cylinder bays, and were not damaged. It was noted that there was no torque seal on any of the cylinder attachment nuts. Each cylinder was removed, and visually inspected. With the exception of the number two cylinder, it was noted that there was a significant amount of black sealant type material covering the majority of the cylinder flange and skirt; the number two cylinder was void of a black sealant type material. It was also noted that one of the number two cylinder hold down nuts appeared to be a standard nut, in contrast to typical cylinder hold down nuts. The internal portion of all four cylinders displayed normal operating and combustion signatures. Additionally, each of the four cylinder's rocker arms, valves, and springs displayed normal operating signatures."

 

[GlennAB1]

Have you seen his soldering?

 

[GlennAB1]

Certainly,, but would it be a steel or a S/steel?

We're not talking about obviously corroded cables, but if you must, stainless steel is corrosion resistant, not corrosion proof, on top of that, most corrosion resistant steels lose corrosion resistance when subjected to heat.

 

[GlennAB1]

Since we're playing "what if", Tom. What if it's owner assisted maintenance and the new owner finds a cable that isn't lubricated and asks you if it should be lubricated? Based on what you've said, you'd use a magnet to determine if it's carbon steel or SS, which we now know would be incorrect. And if it were SS and you told him to lubricate it, that would also be incorrect.

 

[GlennAB1]

I've seen your posts here and the misinformation you supply. I've seen you contradict yourself and even attempt to change quotations (in this thread!).
I've read this incident: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations...ev_id=20150928X72825&ntsbno=WPR15FA268&akey=1
Pictures of your work are here: https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/59000-59499/59203/596383.pdf

I can certainly read about your work here:
"The original engine oil screen remained installed, despite the fact that the engine was equipped with an oil filter. When the oil screen was removed, a significant amount of contaminates consistent with metallic material as well as a significant amount of unidentified black colored substance was observed."

"The crankcase was intact and undamaged. The crankcase halves were split, and the crankcase was visually inspected. It was noted that there was black sealant applied to the crankcase halves mating surfaces, and there was no silk thread noted on the crankcase halve mating surfaces. It was also noted that the black sealant material was found in several of the oil galleys. There were no signs of bearing shift or lock tab elongation. The accessory case displayed damage on the inside of the case; the damage was consistent with impact with the sheered crankshaft gear bolts. All three main bearings remained within their respective bearing supports. Each displayed normal operating and lubrication signatures."

"ll four cylinders remained attached to their respective cylinder bays, and were not damaged. It was noted that there was no torque seal on any of the cylinder attachment nuts. Each cylinder was removed, and visually inspected. With the exception of the number two cylinder, it was noted that there was a significant amount of black sealant type material covering the majority of the cylinder flange and skirt; the number two cylinder was void of a black sealant type material. It was also noted that one of the number two cylinder hold down nuts appeared to be a standard nut, in contrast to typical cylinder hold down nuts. The internal portion of all four cylinders displayed normal operating and combustion signatures. Additionally, each of the four cylinder's rocker arms, valves, and springs displayed normal operating signatures."

Wow!
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

• The loss of engine power due to the mechanic's inadequate tightening of the crankshaft gear retaining bolts during an engine overhaul, which resulted in fatigue failure of the bolts and the crankshaft gear dowel pin that allowed the crankshaft gear to separate from the crankshaft."

 

[Tom-D]

Have you seen his soldering?

Lets see your's

 

[Tom-D]

Wow!
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

• The loss of engine power due to the mechanic's inadequate tightening of the crankshaft gear retaining bolts during an engine overhaul, which resulted in fatigue failure of the bolts and the crankshaft gear dowel pin that allowed the crankshaft gear to separate from the crankshaft."

That is true :
Now why did it come loose in service, When the torque was done and it was safetied ?
At the time of the failure the 4 bolts did not have proper torque, WHY

The Why is more important than the result.
The Why is how to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Tom-D]

Don'tcha love it when people concretize but can't show you they've done better.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

So....maybe they were stripped?

 

[GlennAB1]

That is true :
Now why did it come loose in service, When the torque was done and it was safetied ?
At the time of the failure the 4 bolts did not have proper torque, WHY

The Why is more important than the result.
The Why is how to prevent it from happening again.

The National Transportation Safety Board determined the probable cause of this accident as the loss of engine power due to the mechanic's inadequate tightening of the crankshaft gear retaining bolts during an engine overhaul.

And you question my A&P...

 

[GlennAB1]

I'm sure they do, But they don't wok in my shop. We simply order the right part numbers, and trust the documentation that comes with it.

Sure.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/end-of-my-cable-problems.99052/#post-2164516

 

[PilotRPI]

All I did was go away for a couple days. WTF happened to my thread? It wasn't that complicated a question.

 

[GlennAB1]

Read post 8, about covers it.

 

[Tom-D]

Really turned the corner in post #9

 

[GlennAB1]

Now why did it come loose in service, When the torque was done and it was safetied ?
At the time of the failure the 4 bolts did not have proper torque, WHY

It looks like bolt head wear pattern on the gear, not round washer wear. Was there supposed to be washers under the bolt heads? Were the bolts shanked out?

 

[sferguson524]

"Some old elevators", assuming they aren't fabric, and are metal. Do they have nonmetallic tips? Some strippers can ruin fiberglass or plastics.

i found that out the hard way stripping the old name off of my boat to prep for decals. that citristrip took the color out of the gelcoat