Overhaul, phase I

Re: Time for Overhaul, phase I

rhoab said:
What was the oil change interval protocol? My engine doesn't get over 170 so I change every 90 days.
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35 hours (ish) or 4 months whichever comes first.

The couple of years I flew over 200 hours I'd let go a bit longer but never over 50. Yes, I have a filter.
 
BTW...

Someone mentioned in one of my threads, and I can't find it right now, that I will be amazed at how quickly the engine will be torn down.

I was.

We lifted the engine out of the back of my truck at 8:30am.

By 10:15 I was staring at nothing but the crank on the engine stand.
 
timwinters said:
Just recently switched to Phillips x/c 20/50. But for the first 1000+ hours I ran straight weight Aeroshell. 100 for 8 months...80 for four months (give or take).
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Based on my observations over the years Phillips seems to be better.

Disclaimer: Strictly my opinion.
 
So where did the bronze flakes come from ?
 
timwinters said:
BTW...

Someone mentioned in one of my threads, and I can't find it right now, that I will be amazed at how quickly the engine will be torn down.

I was.

We lifted the engine out of the back of my truck at 8:30am.

By 10:15 I was staring at nothing but the crank on the engine stand.
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So long as it doesn't go back together as quickly...
 
Tim, CamGuard can't protect against water. Ultimately if the water isn't boiling out, that's going to cause an issue. So I'm not sure I'd lose faith in it so much as I'd say that it's part of a system.

Maintaining proper oil temps is important in these engines. Too cold is not a good thing. Of course, I have no number on my temp gauge so I haven't a clue what numbers I'm running.

I'd bet the culprit on too cold oil overall. 230F is too hot as well, but Lycomings don't seem to care about that in my experience.
 
There was a guy that bought a brand spanking new IO550 for a 210, reported using cam guard from day 1, at the third overhaul the crank was corroded beyond repair around the front bearing journal, all the way around it, forward and aft of the prop oil transfer hole. (This airplane few ~280 hours/year)
 
bnt83 said:
There was a guy that bought a brand spanking new IO550 for a 210, reported using cam guard from day 1, at the third overhaul the crank was corroded beyond repair around the front bearing journal, all the way around it, forward and aft of the prop oil transfer hole. (This airplane few ~280 hours/year)
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Well, they don't call it Crankguard!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Tim, CamGuard can't protect against water. Ultimately if the water isn't boiling out, that's going to cause an issue. So I'm not sure I'd lose faith in it so much as I'd say that it's part of a system.

Maintaining proper oil temps is important in these engines. Too cold is not a good thing. Of course, I have no number on my temp gauge so I haven't a clue what numbers I'm running.

I'd bet the culprit on too cold oil overall. 230F is too hot as well, but Lycomings don't seem to care about that in my experience.
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What happens when the water stays in the oil? Won't it settle out to the bottom of the crank case/oil sump, and stay there until next flight? Why would it be any problem to the crank while there?
We all know that water is heavier than oil, plus when the oil is hot the water will settle rather quickly, because as the engine cools the water will condense on the coolest portion of the engine first which is usually the upper case. then run down the case to the oil sump and drop to the bottom.
 
Tom-D said:
What happens when the water stays in the oil? Won't it settle out to the bottom of the crank case/oil sump, and stay there until next flight? Why would it be any problem to the crank while there?
We all know that water is heavier than oil, plus when the oil is hot the water will settle rather quickly, because as the engine cools the water will condense on the coolest portion of the engine first which is usually the upper case. then run down the case to the oil sump and drop to the bottom.
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One problem I've seen is when emulsions form. The emulsions will stick to surfaces which present corrosion opportunities above the sump.
 
Tom-D said:
What happens when the water stays in the oil? Won't it settle out to the bottom of the crank case/oil sump, and stay there until next flight? Why would it be any problem to the crank while there?
We all know that water is heavier than oil, plus when the oil is hot the water will settle rather quickly, because as the engine cools the water will condense on the coolest portion of the engine first which is usually the upper case. then run down the case to the oil sump and drop to the bottom.
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When the engine is running, the water and oil form a mess that exposes all oiled surfaces to the water. At shutdown you then have that oil/water remaining on the crank/cam/etc, which will settle out and corrode in some areas.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Tim, CamGuard can't protect against water. Ultimately if the water isn't boiling out, that's going to cause an issue. So I'm not sure I'd lose faith in it so much as I'd say that it's part of a system.
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To add to that, nobody knows if the condition of the parts would be the same, better, or worse if Camguard wasn't used.
 
mondtster said:
To add to that, nobody knows if the condition of the parts would be the same, better, or worse if Camguard wasn't used.
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Correct. Or if a different oil was used.
 
All I can say is OUCH. Good luck Tim.
 
Contact the camguard guy and wait for the long explanation of how it is your fault.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When the engine is running, the water and oil form a mess that exposes all oiled surfaces to the water. At shutdown you then have that oil/water remaining on the crank/cam/etc, which will settle out and corrode in some areas.
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cept....it won't be water if the temps are high enough.

Steam will exit thru the breather....and evaporate out.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
cept....it won't be water if the temps are high enough.

Steam will exit thru the breather....and evaporate out.
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Naw, the water gets bound in an emulsion and sits right where it landed. Emulsions typically have a very high viscosity.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When the engine is running, the water and oil form a mess that exposes all oiled surfaces to the water. At shutdown you then have that oil/water remaining on the crank/cam/etc, which will settle out and corrode in some areas.
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Not true,, all surfaces in any engine are covered with oil. throw water on an oily surface see what happens.
 
Tom-D said:
Not true,, all surfaces in any engine are covered with oil. throw water on an oily surface see what happens.
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It's not free water, it's an emulsion of oil and water. It's easy to see in any engine, particularly cold engines.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Emulsion....bullullsion.....combustion byproducts is what you're seeing....not water. :yes:
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It's okay, I understand that you don't understand. Pull the oil filler cap off an airplane engine that has been run. See that yellow stuff? That's emulsion. HAND and HTH.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
could be....but how much water do ya see in my oil?
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The middle of the oil in the sump (where you're supposed to pull your sample from) never has water unless things are really screwed up.

But more importantly...

You really don't understand who you're debating with do you...

...trust me, you're out of your league on this topic when arguing with Clark.
 
denverpilot said:
Plus it's lower than 212F if you're not at sea level on a standard day. :)

(Ducking again...)
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I duck also. Emulsion chemistry is really complicated. We can make emulsions and we can break them...we can prevent them but sometimes that might not be the best thing to do. In the case of aircraft engine oil I wonder what the guys behind the specifications are thinking. I suspect most of them are conservative and don't want change. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad. I dunno.
 
soo....what's the percent of that emulsion gue in there versus the dry oil?....and how much of that gue affects the cam shaft corrosion?

btw....I don't have that crap in my engine.....:nono::rofl::D


is it time to start the chest beating and listing credentials? :goofy:

...and Jim I bet semiconductor physics has come a long way since 50 years ago. :rofl:
 
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Re: Time for Overhaul, phase I

Don't know if it helps, I remove the dipstick after flying to let the water escape.
 
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