Overhaul, phase I

Checkout_my_Six said:
soo....what's the percent of that emulsion gue in there versus the dry oil?....and how much of that gue affects the cam shaft corrosion?
Click to expand...

First question...doesn't matter since it isn't on point.

Second question...all of it on the cam shaft

Emulsions are why one should dry an engine after each flight. None of us do it but there it is. In a dry climate, drying an engine isn't a big deal. In a humid climate, drying the engine is prolly really important.

I don't know the limits or when to say when but I do see the posts about corrosion in engines.

I topped my engine last year and there were no corrosion issues. I am in a dry climate.

I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you what is happening inside your engine. Tough break fer sure but that's how it goes.
 
Clark1961 said:
It's not free water, it's an emulsion of oil and water. It's easy to see in any engine, particularly cold engines.
Click to expand...
It still won't touch the steel, all engines varnish up during operations. And it will require a short time to separate.

Water in the oil is not going to be a problem with engines that have been in service any length of time like this one.
 

Attachments

  • P1010024.JPG
    P1010024.JPG
    67.8 KB · Views: 80
This is what causes cam to lifter failures, and it wasn't caused by water in the oil.
 

Attachments

  • cam lobe.jpg
    cam lobe.jpg
    209.5 KB · Views: 91
  • lifter spauling.jpg
    lifter spauling.jpg
    207.2 KB · Views: 88
  • hydraulic unit 1.jpg
    hydraulic unit 1.jpg
    205.2 KB · Views: 86
Omalley1537 said:
They're difficult to fit in the dryer, but once inside, I prefer the cotton/heavy cycle. No fabric softener.:D
Click to expand...

prolly should line dry...



look guys, this has gotten stupid. If you don't want to believe that emulsions form that is okay. I'll agree to disagree. HTH and HAND.
 
I still want to know how you "dry" your engine, seriously.....and I do know about emulsions, suspensions, etc.
 
1RTK1 said:
I still want to know how you "dry" your engine, seriously.....and I do know about emulsions, suspensions, etc.
Click to expand...

Some people have rigged up a system that blows dried air through the oil-filler port to vent the residual moisture out the breather tube. I have not seen any systematic study that looked at something like a twin with two identical engines and followed moisture and corrosion over a meaningful length of time to convince me that it makes a difference. It should work, but that's what we thought about hormone replacement therapy too ;) .

The problem is how to get to the moisture contained in the goo the covers the inside of the engine. The goo is an emulsion, just like Nivea hand creme (an emulsion of petrolatum jelly, air, glycerine and water). The water is finely dispersed in the oily matrix and no matter how dry you make the air inside of the engine, that water will evaporate only in a very delayed manner (kind of like a jar of Nivea eventually dries out).
 
Last edited:
Ouch

WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW YOUR 0470L CRANK HAS REJECTED FOR THRUST CRACKS #5 ROD @ MAX CLEARANCE,WE’LL RED TAG AND RETURN.
 
Re: Time for Overhaul, phase I

This whole thread kinda sucks Tim. I hope you can get back flying soon.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
yup....cold forming processing issues.....lacking correct hardness. :nono:
Click to expand...

No that is not what you are seeing. It's caused by electrolysis, setting in one spot too long. you will see a corresponding mark on the cam lobe.
 
Re: Ouch

timwinters said:
WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW YOUR 0470L CRANK HAS REJECTED FOR THRUST CRACKS #5 ROD @ MAX CLEARANCE,WE’LL RED TAG AND RETURN.
Click to expand...

Polish and clean it and turn it into the stand for a nice coffee table.







A $9600 coffee table :D
 
Re: Ouch

timwinters said:
WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW YOUR 0470L CRANK HAS REJECTED FOR THRUST CRACKS #5 ROD @ MAX CLEARANCE,WE’LL RED TAG AND RETURN.
Click to expand...

SO, What now? junk yard crank? New crank? put it all back together and return it as core on a re-built ?

your overhaul just got a lot more expensive.

What'cha gonna do now?
 
Re: Ouch

Tom-D said:
SO, What now? junk yard crank? New crank? put it all back together and return it as core on a re-built ?

your overhaul just got a lot more expensive.

What'cha gonna do now?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, sounds like the guy just got a kick in the nuts. Any helpful suggestions?
 
Re: Ouch

PaulS said:
Hmmm, sounds like the guy just got a kick in the nuts. Any helpful suggestions?
Click to expand...

Me?? suggestions ??

Day 1 it would have been on its way to Charley.
 
An engine rant.. forgive me.

No one knows what is in their engine. when you try to cheap it out. most of the time it failed for a reason.

The factory have it figured out, as does Charley.

When they do it day in and day out, what makes you think you can do it cheaper?

I do believe Charley will do better because I have dealt with him. and it was a lot easier than the factory.
 
Tom-D said:
...when you try to cheap it out...

When they do it day in and day out, what makes you think you can do it cheaper?.
Click to expand...

Absolutely no decision regarding this rebuild has been made because of cost. There are far cheaper shops out there. This shop is first class, start to finish. I wouldn't do things any other way. I only have one engine in front of me and I want it right.

You seem to have an issue with differentiating what is real from what is imagined.
 
Tom-D said:
An engine rant.. forgive me.

No one knows what is in their engine. when you try to cheap it out. most of the time it failed for a reason.

The factory have it figured out, as does Charley.

When they do it day in and day out, what makes you think you can do it cheaper?

I do believe Charley will do better because I have dealt with him. and it was a lot easier than the factory.
Click to expand...

So.... Just because he didn't use the factory or you're favorite one eyed Charlie you think he is trying to be cheap?? Or do you know something about his engine shop of choice?
 
Last edited:
Tarheelpilot said:
So.... Just because he didn't use the factory or you're favorite one eyed Charlie you think he is trying to be cheap??

Aren't we all trying to fly for less?


Or do you know something about his engine shop of choice?
Click to expand...

I know that Charley charges for what you get, and you get what you pay for.

As far as the rest of the industry, they can stand on their reputation, I have dealt with Charley Malot twice, got treated fairly each time.
 
Tom-D said:
I know that Charley charges for what you get, and you get what you pay for.

As far as the rest of the industry, they can stand on their reputation, I have dealt with Charley Malot twice, got treated fairly each time.
Click to expand...

My post isn't questioning Charley. If I did that I would be guilty of the same type of hubris you exhibited when you called the OP cheap without any basis. So I'll ask again but this time more directly.

Tell us how the op is being cheap or negligent in any way regarding his engine repair. If you can't substantiate your comments with facts then you should apologize.
 
I chatted with Tim at Gaston's, and we commiserated on how it sucks to need an engine.

From all I could see, he intends to get a well-built engine, no economizing.
 
SCCutler said:
I chatted with Tim at Gaston's, and we commiserated on how it sucks to need an engine.

From all I could see, he intends to get a well-built engine, no economizing.
Click to expand...

Oh, now, Spike. You know how cheap I am and how much I like to cut corners!

That's why I went to a shop that also does NASCAR work (NASCAR). I mean, you know how cheap those NASCAR guys are and how sloppy their engine tolerances are.

A shop who has clients like Bill Elliott (ummm...that would be Car
#9, #9, #9, #9 (Then there's this Welsh Rarebit wearing some brown underpants))

A shop that will balance my engine to 1 gram or less (1 gram).

That's why I'm buying my new OEM cylinders from a guy who isn't impressed with the quality factory work or their tolerances. A guy who will buy 12 cylinders for me, weigh them, keep the 6 closest matched and send the other six back. Then he'll port and polish, install new valve guides and hone them, rework the valves and valve seats, flow balance (for what that's worth on an O-470 with it's sh*tty induction system) blueprint and Cryo all parts. He'll also do a few things to the cylinders that I'm not allowed to repeat here! :D

That's why I'm spending at least $5k more that I might otherwise need to...

Using Tom's logic (i.e. if I'm not familiar with the shop, then they can't possibly be good because I know everything) I'd say that going to Charlie would be doing things the cheap way. I'm sure Charlie doesn't use Seth for cylinders and if someone doesn't use Seth for cylinders then they can't possibly run a quality shop.

(tongue planted firmly in cheek while typing that last paragraph...no offense intended Charlie, I have nothing but respect for you)

(and all the parentheticals are added for Troys enjoyment ;) (and I can only assume that he particularly enjoys the use of a parenthetical inside of a parenthetical))
 
timwinters said:
A shop who has clients like Bill Elliott (ummm...that would be Car
#9, #9, #9, #9 (Then there's this Welsh Rarebit wearing some brown underpants))
Click to expand...

Tim, I don't know what your current dosage is but ya might wanna cut it in half...
 
Millennium and Titan cylinders come balance matched and flow matched. Add that to balanced crank and rods and the engine runs very smooth. Let the other guys dynamically balance. :yes:
 
Clark1961 said:
Tim, I don't know what your current dosage is but ya might wanna cut it in half...
Click to expand...

Or double it. ;)

Bad cranks suck. 550 crank time! :yes:
 
Stewartb said:
Millennium and Titan cylinders come balance matched and flow matched. Add that to balanced crank and rods and the engine runs very smooth. Let the other guys dynamically balance. :yes:
Click to expand...

But...

But...

But...

;)

I'd guarantee you that the minimum wage (or, these days, child slave labor) working in their factories don't give near the damn that Seth does.

When I only have one engine in front of me I'll rely on someone I know and trust, thanks, and that's Seth.

BTW, I don't think ECI Titans are made anymore because Continental bought them...it's my understanding that they shut them down.

But, a dozen years ago when I topped the O-300 in my '57 172 I used Titans and loved them. But, I bought them through Seth and he did the same thing...bought 12...sent 6 back. Reworked everything because the factory quality ain't up to his standards. He showed me how "off center" some of the valve guides were reamed. It was an interesting lesson.

And, another point, last month when this process was just starting, I asked Seth who was doing the best job on cylinders these days and he said that Continental is...and he followed that with "I wouldn't have said that a few years ago but today they definitely are." I trust Seth's judgement (obviously).
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
I know that Charley charges for what you get, and you get what you pay for.

As far as the rest of the industry, they can stand on their reputation, I have dealt with Charley Malot twice, got treated fairly each time.
Click to expand...
How would sending Charlie his engine have changed the fact that his crank failed inspection?
 
At least you gave up on the old ones. Anything will be better than those.

Ask him to track how the rockers contact the valves and make sure they're squared. Or figure you'll have some E valve work to do in a year or two.

A friend had Ly-con do their magic to some TCM cyls on his 0-520. It's a different airplane as a result. Smoother, stronger, and runs cooler. Good stuff. Have fun.

http://www.eci.aero/ProdService/Cylinders.aspx
 
Last edited:
Fearless Tower said:
How would sending Charlie his engine have changed the fact that his crank failed inspection?
Click to expand...

A bad crank is a bad crank, anywhere.

He'll pay anywhere he gets the engine rebuilt. I don't think the factory will even take it as core with a bad crank.

but now that it has been torn down, I know they won't.

I don't know Charley's pricing well enough to know if he'd absorb the crank in his overhaul price or not.
 
Stewartb said:
Millennium and Titan cylinders come balance matched and flow matched. Add that to balanced crank and rods and the engine runs very smooth. Let the other guys dynamically balance. :yes:
Click to expand...

Isn't it nice to know that the Chinese own ECI, TCM, and Superior? no matter which cylinder you order they all came off the same machine?

There is no longer any competition in this market to provide a better product.
 
You need to leave the whiskey out of your coffee, Tom. Last I looked San Antonio was in Texas. Besides, you have no idea who owns most of the stock of your favorite American companies, do you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top