Out of control cops or out of control preg. woman?

Skylane81E said:
Facts not welcome, a lyncing is underway
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No vigalante lynching needed, the fed court has ruled that use of a taser on a pregnant woman is only allowable when deadly force is justified. This clearly wasn't the case.

I can give a regular joe a pass on not knowing the law, it's a cops job to know.

I hope she sues.
 
steingar said:
Don't care. If an LEO is physically manhandling my very frail spouse, he or she will receive the maximum my little 5'6" frame can deliver. You folks talk a good game about not being sheeple when it comes to firearms, but seem ready to roll right over for police brutality. They can do whatever they want to me, but they'd better keep their mitts off Mrs. Steingar.

You watch way too much TV.
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But here's the thing... it's not brutality to use non-lethal submission techniques to affect the arrest of a person who is resisting arrest with violence, regardless of if they are pregnant or Mrs. Steingar. The court cases on this are not at all clear, the closest we can come to a definitive answer came from the 9th circuit, who in a split decision basically said that the use of force in the particular case argued before it (tasing a pregnant woman who refused to sign a speeding ticket, and then refused to get out of her car when the officers told her she was under arrest) was excessive, but that the officers were not liable because the law doesn't prohibit using force to affect an arrest. (Brooks v. City of Seattle)

Look, if the encounter goes from "may I see your licence and registration please" to "GET ON THE GROUND! ZAP!" in 2 seconds, then yeah, bring out the pitchforks. But you don't get to resist arrest with violence and get away with it, under any circumstances. The woman in this case committed assault, a felony in and of itself, never mind that the person she was assaulting was a police officer lawfully discharging his duty.

And my experience is from BTDT, not TV.

Florida Cracker said:
The new mantra is to submit. At any time, in every way, submit to the government or get hammered by idiots with expensive publically funded toys.

When did Americna men become such wusses?
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No, not at any time, and in any way. But to the lawful commands of a police officer, you betcha.

bartmc said:
No vigalante lynching needed, the fed court has ruled that use of a taser on a pregnant woman is only allowable when deadly force is justified. This clearly wasn't the case.

I can give a regular joe a pass on not knowing the law, it's a cops job to know.

I hope she sues.
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Can you cite a federal ruling that prohibits the use of a taser on a pregnant woman? The highest-adjucated case I'm aware of is Brooks v. Seattle, and it says nothing of the sort.
 
livitup said:
But here's the thing... it's not brutality to use non-lethal submission techniques to affect the arrest of a person who is resisting arrest with violence, regardless of if they are pregnant or Mrs. Steingar. The court cases on this are not at all clear, the closest we can come to a definitive answer came from the 9th circuit, who in a split decision basically said that the use of force in the particular case argued before it (tasing a pregnant woman who refused to sign a speeding ticket, and then refused to get out of her car when the officers told her she was under arrest) was excessive, but that the officers were not liable because the law doesn't prohibit using force to affect an arrest. (Brooks v. City of Seattle)

Look, if the encounter goes from "may I see your licence and registration please" to "GET ON THE GROUND! ZAP!" in 2 seconds, then yeah, bring out the pitchforks. But you don't get to resist arrest with violence and get away with it, under any circumstances. The woman in this case committed assault, a felony in and of itself, never mind that the person she was assaulting was a police officer lawfully discharging his duty.

And my experience is from BTDT, not TV.



No, not at any time, and in any way. But to the lawful commands of a police officer, you betcha.



Can you cite a federal ruling that prohibits the use of a taser on a pregnant woman? The highest-adjucated case I'm aware of is Brooks v. Seattle, and it says nothing of the sort.
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They certainly used it as a factor in determining it was excessive force. You can disagree with this lawyer who wrote about it for the international association of chiefs of police. http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...=print_display&article_id=2574&issue_id=12012
 
The answer is very simple here, obey law enforcement! Jeez how hard is it. If good ol Leo tells you to get on the ground, get the F on the ground. Whatever makes people think they don't have to listen is beyond me. We live by laws, and laws are enforced. Nobody cares if you don't like that, that's how it is. That said, maybe he could've handled it better, sure, but it never would've happened if the officers had compliance.
 
She did not say she would not comply with arrest. She said she did not want to be put on her stomache for she was preg.

I bet that cop would not put his wife on her stomache while preg.

Cops do not have to be jerks just because they are cops. Power has gone to these people heads.
 
He could have said...Turn around and I will put cuffs on you..

Bullies come in many forms...I see bullies in blue in this video and that man whom keeps trying to get in the way as someone reports this is a jerk also.

He did this becuase he knew what was happening was not right...Trying to hide it from others eye's...But it never worked..And made him look like a jerk....

If there was nothing wrong with what was happening let the world know it. But trying to hide it, he knew in his mind...This was not right
 
I love how there were...what?...like a dozen cops there in less than 5 minutes.

The donut shop must have been right across the street.
 
timwinters said:
I love how there were...what?...like a dozen cops there in less than 5 minutes.

The donut shop must have been right across the street.
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Donut shop? No, no, no. Starbucks. you want to wipe out 90% of the cops in my area? nuke the Starbucks. Just let one out to bring my cappuccino before you do.
 
DeeG said:
Donut shop? No, no, no. Starbucks. you want to wipe out 90% of the cops in my area? nuke the Starbucks. Just let one out to bring my cappuccino before you do.
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Speedway around here, get three of four different departments too:rofl:
 
Since the early 80's, law enforcement has moved the ball to an authoritative, police state, little by little. Courts refuse to consider the behavior of bad cops, except in very small increments and legislators are afraid of being painted with the, "soft on crime," label.
Hiring standards have been reduced so far, to encourage minorities to the point that common sense, and decision making ability has been compromised, drastically, and the neighborhood bullies are now protected by people that hide behind pathetic responses, such as, "Just Comply! Don't ask question. Don't demand your rights. Do not resist. If you do, you will be beaten and tazered and arrested and persecuted, even if they are committing a crime against you."
 
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Florida Cracker said:
Since the early 80's, law enforcement has moved the ball to an authoritative, police state, little by little. Courts refuse to consider the behavior of bad cops, except in very small increments and legislators are afraid of being painted with the, "soft on crime," label.
Hiring standards have been reduced so far, to encourage minorities to the point that common sense, and decision making ability has been compromised, drastically, and the neighborhood bullies are now protected by epople that hide behind pathetic responses, such as, "Just Comply! Don't ask question. Don't demand your rights. Do not resist. If you do, you will be beaten and tazered and arrested and persecuted, eve if they are committing a crime against you."
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:yeahthat:

I try to show my sons these incidents every time they happen, mainly because I want them to see just how emotion can erode a situation quickly. Heavy handed cops can be and will be dealt with in this video age, BUT NOT AT THE SITE OF THE INCIDENT. Florida's right, the dynamic has changed.
 
VanDy said:
easy! Here ya go: the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc

the article showing he was fired:

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x638339306/Daniel-Harless-fired-from-Canton-police-force



but he is appealing to get it back....
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And this is such a great example because the officer was obviously wrong, and way over the top. Rather than litigate this at the side of the road, the citizen complied. Had he resisted at the scene he could have legitimately been charged with resisting arrest or assault.

Instead he went along with it, won in court, and is sued in Federal court (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8442). It ended up getting settled out of court, and I'm sure he got well compensated.
 
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steingar said:
Find me an instance when an overarching police officer was held accountable for his or her actions, then.
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Your comment reminds of the IDIOT cop in Minn, that hit the side of a minivan with small children in it, because the driver was SLOWLY pulling off the exit to comply with the red lights.

The video is clear. The driver signaled to pull over and very slowly pulled to the exit ramp, because there was snow on the sides of the road but the IDIOT woman had to use her cruiser as a weapon and endanger three lives, because her ego made her afraid that her power was in doubt.

The IDIOT chief and the IDIOTS in charge claimed all she needed was a little further training.

If any private person acted this way, they would have been charged with attempted vehicular homicide and other felonies.
 
1600vw said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5eOknaXgYU

If this was my son they would have to kill me for I would hunt these cops down.
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I contacted the people whom are helping this man. I wanted to donate all the money I could.

They told me that he has a team working on this case. But this man needs federal help and would like for everyone to pass this video along to every person they know so just maybe they can get the word out on this poor man so he can get the help he needs.

PLEASE PLEASE pass this video along to every person you know.
 
Wow.
Let me preface by saying I have been a police/fire dep't surgeon and I have been an EMR doc. I have seen police actions from both sides of the coin.

For those foaming at the mouth with their hatred of officers, had I the power I would sentence you to have to be a night shift police officer for 6 months - and I would dispatch you to every family trouble call that came in, and every fight in a parking lot, and every drunk driver.
I can guarantee, because I know, that within days your opinions would change - considerably.
After you have been spit on enough times, and after the beaten and bloody wife tries to stab in the back with a broken bottle while you are cuffing her drunken lout, and after you have dealt with screaming/swearing/struggling/kicking/biting/drunken/insane people who were hurling 4000 pound battering rams down the street (while you are being pummeled by the crowd that collects), you will come to the point that you will insist that the public simply do what you just ordered them to do and let the judge sort it out - OR ELSE!

I know that because I have seen it with every fresh class of academy graduates that came to work.

Now, are there officers that absolutely should not have a badge and a taser? Absolutely!
What departments need is a court that will let them take the badge and the taser away - which currently is almost impossible once they have been sworn as officers.

dr. o
 
Dr. O said:
Wow.
Let me preface by saying I have been a police/fire dep't surgeon and I have been an EMR doc. I have seen police actions from both sides of the coin.

For those foaming at the mouth with their hatred of officers, had I the power I would sentence you to have to be a night shift police officer for 6 months - and I would dispatch you to every family trouble call that came in, and every fight in a parking lot, and every drunk driver.
I can guarantee, because I know, that within days your opinions would change - considerably.
After you have been spit on enough times, and after the beaten and bloody wife tries to stab in the back with a broken bottle while you are cuffing her drunken lout, and after you have dealt with screaming/swearing/struggling/kicking/biting/drunken/insane people who were hurling 4000 pound battering rams down the street (while you are being pummeled by the crowd that collects), you will come to the point that you will insist that the public simply do what you just ordered them to do and let the judge sort it out - OR ELSE!

I know that because I have seen it with every fresh class of academy graduates that came to work.

Now, are there officers that absolutely should not have a badge and a taser? Absolutely!
What departments need is a court that will let them take the badge and the taser away - which currently is almost impossible once they have been sworn as officers.

dr. o
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So becuase of this every cop tells every person..You Lie and you are scum...

Not an excuse to act like this to anyone. I get spit on and cursed at all the time but I do not treat my fellow human with anything but respect and caring.

Our Lord Jesus will deal with people whom treat others like this and I ask him to take these people down. Treat them with...An Eye for an Eye...

Just becuase you are treated like Sh##t treat the whole world like SH##t

Not an excuse.....
 
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This upsets me so much I offered my airplane and my home to help this man.

I would live in the streets to see justice for this man.......

When I heard that poor boy tied in cop car and getting beat and his cries all I could think..What if that was my son..He sounded just like my boy...

I did not sleep last night.......

This scares me to death becuase those cops got away with it...

It could be my son next, or me.

The Staes Attorney sent a messege to every cop in America..It open season on people, it does not matter if you are American, or what color..
 
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1600vw said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5eOknaXgYU

If this was my son they would have to kill me for I would hunt these cops down.
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'The thought that maybe he should pull over never entered his mind'.

Hmmm... When driving down the road and I see a po po car in the rear view with lights flashing, the FIRST thing that pops into my head is PULL OVER.

'I've been told that people with bi-polar conditions don't always think the way non bi-polar people do'.

Then why, oh why, is someone who can't think properly operating a motor vehicle? And now there are 4 or more cars behind him with lights flashing and all he does is light another smoke and turn up the radio? WTF kind of idiot is he?

'Other than not pulling over, he did not break a single traffic law'.

Umm... "failing to yield to an emergency vehicle" comes to mind. And how did he know that maybe something else was wrong? Just because something isn't obvious to the driver doesn't mean something isn't amiss. Maybe his taillights were out. And driving 5-10 under the posted limit is a sure way to get yourself pulled over in this state.


Title 75 - VEHICLES
Chapter 33 - Rules of the Road in General
3325 - Duty of driver on approach of emergency vehicle.
§ 3325. Duty of driver on approach of emergency vehicle.
(a) General rule.--Upon the immediate approach of an
emergency vehicle making use of an audible signal and visual
signals meeting the requirements and standards set forth in
regulations adopted by the department, the driver of every other
vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive
to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the
right-hand edge or curb of the roadway clear of any intersection
and shall stop and remain in that position until the emergency
vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police
officer or an appropriately attired person authorized to direct,
control or regulate traffic. On one-way roadways a driver may
comply by driving to the edge or curb which is nearest to the
lane in which he is traveling.


Title 75 - VEHICLES
Chapter 33 - Rules of the Road in General
Section 3364 - Minimum speed regulation

§ 3364. Minimum speed regulation.

(a) Impeding movement of traffic prohibited.--Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law, no person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

(b) Slow moving vehicle to drive off roadway.--

(1) Except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law, whenever any person drives a vehicle upon a roadway having width for not more than one lane of traffic in each direction at less than the maximum posted speed and at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the driver shall, at the first opportunity when and where it is reasonable and safe to do so and after giving appropriate signal, drive completely off the roadway and onto the berm or shoulder of the highway. The driver may return to the roadway after giving appropriate signal only when the movement can be made in safety and so as not to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.


Not condoning what the officers did, I gave up watching the video after the 'he didn't break any laws' comment.
 
So he never pulled over, he never broke any laws. So beat the poor kid, give him a ticket.

Not pulling over gives you the right to do this....
 
When I was police commish in our quiet upscale suburban city of 150,000, the #1 source of injuries to patrol division was domestic calls. We changed SOP to require backup before entering the property.
 
Nothing anyone says gives anyone the right to do this to any other person...Unless that person was beating or killing someone else....

NOTHING GAVE THOSE COPS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS....NOTHING
 
You rule loving white people are going to get yours one day. I'm almost at the point thinking when non minority citizens get a blue line beat down it is a good thing. You didn't stop it when it wasn't you...
 
DeeG said:
Not condoning what the officers did, I gave up watching the video after the 'he didn't break any laws' comment.
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Then don't comment if you are not going to listen to the evidence.....
 
ClimbnSink said:
You rule loving white people are going to get yours one day. I'm almost at the point thinking when non minority citizens get a blue line beat down it is a good thing. You didn't stop it when it wasn't you...
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If you are talking to me you have no idea what you are saying for you no me not.....You have no idea what I have done in my life....
 
ClimbnSink said:
You rule loving white people QUOTE]

When people say this I tell them.....

My house is white, my car is white....

I put my arm next to my house...I do not match my house or my car...

DO NOT CALL ME WHITE....

I am AMERICAN.....Just like you...We need to stop seeing color and start seeing we are all

AMERICAN'S

I just happen to be ITALIAN.....But I am AMERICAN MADE.....
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Yep, having no rules is a clear path to an idyllic life for everyone. History books are full of examples.

ClimbnSink said:
You rule loving white people are going to get yours one day. I'm almost at the point thinking when non minority citizens get a blue line beat down it is a good thing. You didn't stop it when it wasn't you...
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1600vw said:
If you are talking to me you have no idea what you are saying for you no me not.....You have no idea what I have done in my life....
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Not you, the just comply with your masters posters.
 
1600vw said:
So becuase of this every cop tells every person..You Lie and you are scum...
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In two words you managed to destroy your argument and your credibility. That tells anyone listening where you are in this debate.
EVERY cop is corrupt, EVERY cop is abusive. You're right, everyone else is wrong. Riiiiiight.

Nothing more to see here. Move along.
 
ClimbnSink said:
You didn't stop it when it wasn't you...
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And its still not me..

But you see I care as do a lot of others...

Look what I went through to get the word out on that poor preg. woman.

I did not see a color.

I saw a poor preg. woman needing some help from being attacked by a gang.

The gang in blue, and as we are seeing from more and more video, this is an organized gang that runs america..
 
Do you get this worked-up over every sensationalist TV news story?

1600vw said:
And its still not me..

But you see I care as do a lot of others...

Look what I went through to get the word out on that poor preg. woman.

I did not see a color.

I saw a poor preg. woman needing some help from being attacked by a gang.

The gang in blue, and as we are seeing from more and more video, this is an organized gang that runs america..
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PilotAlan said:
In two words you managed to destroy your argument and your credibility. That tells anyone listening where you are in this debate.
EVERY cop is corrupt, EVERY cop is abusive. You're right, everyone else is wrong. Riiiiiight.

Nothing more to see here. Move along.
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I have delt with a lot of cops in my 50 + years.. and Not one..Not one..Ever said..You are telling the truth...NOT ONE

I have NEVER LIED to a cop...NEVER....and I have had some bad dealings with the police.

But then I grew up...With a big kick in the butt from our Lord....
 
1600vw said:
I have delt with a lot of cops in my 50 + years.. and Not one..Not one..Ever said..You are telling the truth...NOT ONE

I have NEVER LIED to a cop...NEVER....and I have had some bad dealings with the police.
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You've had multiple interaction with the cops, and they were ALL jerks, huh? What's the common denominator?
My dad said "if you run into a jerk once in a while, remember that people have bad days. If you are ALWAYS running into jerks, then you're the jerk."

Most people go their entire lives without a significant interaction with the police.

But then I grew up...With a big kick in the butt from our Lord....
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God bless you. We are all fallen, but only some choose to see it, and fewer accept the hand He extends.
 
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Watch any Cops program and you hear it all the time...The cops believe nothing.

Now are people telling the truth..NO WAY....

But not everyone lies.

Just like I understand not all cops are like the ones in the video.

But when you ahve a State Ploice force that is condoning these actions this is what gets me upset.

This poor boy gets beat what 5 times then gets thrown in prison for 4 or more years....

For......?

If you are not concerned about this..you will be when its your loved one its happening to.

And as you see this is common pratice today, so this could bee you.

My Mom was driving for 10 miles and never saw the cop behind her.

He got out and asked her...Do you ever look in your mirror..then she received a warning for driving 55 in a 40.

She said..I guess not. She said she never even heard the siren.

This was 1971...

What do you think the outcome would have been if this happened today?
 
About the same. And since she's now 42 years older than before, would you rather the cops or some thugs be following her?

1600vw said:
Watch any Cops program and you hear it all the time...The cops believe nothing.

Now are people telling the truth..NO WAY....

But not everyone lies.

Just like I understand not all cops are like the ones in the video.

But when you ahve a State Ploice force that is condoning these actions this is what gets me upset.

This poor boy gets beat what 5 times then gets thrown in prison for 4 or more years....

For......?

If you are not concerned about this..you will be when its your loved one its happening to.

And as you see this is common pratice today, so this could bee you.

My Mom was driving for 10 miles and never saw the cop behind her.

He got out and asked her...Do you ever look in your mirror..then she received a warning for driving 55 in a 40.

She said..I guess not. She said she never even heard the siren.

This was 1971...

What do you think the outcome would have been if this happened today?
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