Out of balance...... Say whhhuuut?

Structural Repair Manual. So you can verify material thicknesses, etc. Maybe the stabilator you have is for a different model aircraft? Did they check any other models and see if their balance range was what you are coming up with?
 
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Hmmm....no, we didn't look at other models as far as the balance limits goes. We did look at the counter weights thinking maybe the wrong one was installed. Saratoga weights look ver different.

I'll take a look, but it's going to be pretty hard to determine as there are no part numbers stamped anywhere to reference.
 
Unit74 said:
Hmmm....no, we didn't look at other models as far as the balance limits goes. We did look at the counter weights thinking maybe the wrong one was installed. Saratoga weights look ver different.

I'll take a look, but it's going to be pretty hard to determine as there are no part numbers stamped anywhere to reference.
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GlennAB1 said:
Everything I've worked on had/has an SRM, where flight control balancing is located.
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You assumed wrong as to what I was questioning. Someone asked what you meant by SRM and I was providing my guess.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Ah, but "Structural Repair Manual" had already been answered two post's prior to yours. So it appeared you were questioning me.
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It had not been answered when I started typing. I didn't check again before hitting "Post Reply". No problem, just clarifying.
 
SCCutler said:
"SRM" means Sequential Rotary Microfilmer. A Bell & Howell product, best of its kind in the world.
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It could also mean Safety Risk Management and probably a ton of other things such as Stupid Retarded Monkey. Of course, you need to consider the context.
 
Solo Righthanded Masterba....

...ummm nevermind...

:)
 
Gaaaawdddamn boys.... 6pc ain't even here in dis one and it's off the rails like an Amtrak driver with a cell phone.


So what's up? Anyone have the manual for a PA32?
 
I have the MX manual. I need the SRM info for the Stab.
 
Unit74 said:
I have the MX manual. I need the SRM info for the Stab.
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You are looking for something that doesn't exists based on a post by someone who probably has never even worked on one. It took me 2 minutes to figure out there that there is no separate book for an "SRM"...

http://www.piper.com/techpubs_files/Owner_Publications_Catalog.pdf

Have you even bothered to look in the book you have or just hoping for a quick spoon-fed answer from a forum (with basically no hard data to research from)?
 
bnt83 said:
You are looking for something that doesn't exists based on a post by someone who probably has never even worked on one. It took me 2 minutes to figure out there that there is no separate book for an "SRM"...

http://www.piper.com/techpubs_files/Owner_Publications_Catalog.pdf

Have you even bothered to look in the book you have or just hoping for a quick spoon-fed answer from a forum (with basically no hard data to research from)?
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Have you read the whole thread?
 
Mike Smith said:
Have you read the whole thread?
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I've read enough to know that one cant even Identify which maintenance manual applies to his airplane. We know its a Piper PA32, that doesn't tell us the variant or serial number. As you can see by the graph I posted, there is a huge array of balancing data for the PA28 series, the PA32 series isn't the same way?

He mentioned someone would be contacting Piper, which is about the smartest thing he can do. They should be able to help physically identify and verify the parts on the plane are the correct ones.

For all we know the trim tab was repaired at one time and its causing the problem, or the wrong balance arm is installed, or maybe the factory screwed up its not the right stabiliator, or more likely, the manual is wrong.
 
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Alright, there's no SRM and the stabilator has no data plate. How can owner determine that incorrect stabilator was not installed at some point and correct stabilator is installed?
 
bnt83 said:
I've read enough to know that one cant even Identify which maintenance manual applies to his airplane. We know its a Piper PA32, that doesn't tell us the variant or serial number. As you can see by the graph I posted, there is a huge array of balancing data for the PA28 series, the PA32 series isn't the same way?

He mentioned someone would be contacting Piper, which is about the smartest thing he can do. They should be able to help physically identify and verify the parts on the plane are the correct ones.

For all we know the trim tab was repaired at one time and its causing the problem, or the wrong balance arm is installed, or maybe the factory screwed up its not the right stabiliator, or more likely, the manual is wrong.
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What else do you want the guy to do? He took it to the shop, took it to another shop, had it stripped and painted, contacted piper, and yet you think he is looking for a "quick, spoon fed answer"??? Come on man.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Alright, there's no SRM and the stabilator has no data plate. How can owner determine that incorrect stabilator was not installed at some point and correct stabilator is installed?
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You can't find the answer with Google? Your source for expert advice has failed you.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Alright, there's no SRM and the stabilator has no data plate. How can owner determine that incorrect stabilator was not installed at some point and correct stabilator is installed?
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We pulled it all apart today and did find a single stamped S/N so we are confident the stab assembly is OE.

I'll have an update tomorrow with what I expect as resolution to the matter. I just need to cool down a bit and make a couple phone calls and I'll post what's up.
 
Tom-D said:
Yes, do I need to quote his own remarks? he doesn't even know if he has the correct part.
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Sure Tom, and while you're at it, quote where he took it to the shop. Then quote where he took it to the paint shop. Then quote where he got in touch with Piper. Then quote where he said it wasn't in the book he has. Then, when you are done with all that, maybe you can actually add value to the thread and give the OP some information that he doesn't have or direct him to a contact where he may find it. But you won't, you will just come back with some comment to me. This place is depressing today.
 
Tom-D said:
he doesn't even know if he has the correct part.
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Literally got nothing. The stab could be the correct one and in perfect shape and the whole problem could be an improperly repaired trim tab, or full of mud, or full of ___________.

If it were honeycomb core or foam filled the tab could be full of water and/or corrosion.

Maybe the wrong weight is installed. Since OEMs do a terrible job of marking parts, even life limited ones on jets, about the only thing you can do is get a hold of manufacturing drawings and see which one matches.
 
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Mike Smith said:
Sure Tom, and while you're at it, quote where he took it to the shop. Then quote where he took it to the paint shop. Then quote where he got in touch with Piper. Then quote where he said it wasn't in the book he has. Then, when you are done with all that, maybe you can actually add value to the thread and give the OP some information that he doesn't have or direct him to a contact where he may find it. But you won't, you will just come back with some comment to me. This place is depressing today.
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If I'm so messed up, show me the part number he is working with.
 
bnt83 said:
Literally got nothing. The stab could be the correct one and in perfect shape and the whole problem could be an improperly repaired trim tab, or full of mud, or full of ___________.

If it were honeycomb core or foam filled the tab could be full of water and/or corrosion.

Maybe the wrong weight is installed. Since OEMs do a terrible job of marking parts, even life limited ones on jets, about the only thing you can do is get a hold of manufacturing drawings and see which one matches.
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Hell of a lot of "" IFs""
What you are asking for is the blue prints for the part, but Piper requires a part number to find the blue print.
Step one, square one, send the serial number of the aircraft to Piper and ask what is the proper part number. (most times they will do this over the phone) After you have the proper part number ask for the prints. and don't be surprised if that print is spendy.
 
Many times with Piper the part numbers are serial number specific to the airframe production run, IMHO, I'd guess that in the past the stab was replaced with one that was of the wrong production run.. and never checked for proper balance.
 
bnt83 said:
Literally got nothing. The stab could be the correct one and in perfect shape and the whole problem could be an improperly repaired trim tab, or full of mud, or full of ___________.

If it were honeycomb core or foam filled the tab could be full of water and/or corrosion.

Maybe the wrong weight is installed. Since OEMs do a terrible job of marking parts, even life limited ones on jets, about the only thing you can do is get a hold of manufacturing drawings and see which one matches.
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Your about two weeks too late at this point and really haven't done anything other than regurgitate what has already been said or done.

If I need Prep H, then you will certainly need some Vagisil. Your call though.
 
Unit74 said:
We pulled it all apart today and did find a single stamped S/N so we are confident the stab assembly is OE.

I'll have an update tomorrow with what I expect as resolution to the matter. I just need to cool down a bit and make a couple phone calls and I'll post what's up.
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So what's the conclusion? You can't leave us hanging.
 
Tom-D said:
Yes he can. he's probably busy trying to figure out where to put the Prep-H.
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That's just crap Tom. Why in the hell would he comment about it again? He did everything right, everything, except maybe posting it on here. And honestly, I would think you would be old enough not to stoop to grade school cut-downs (prep-H), maybe I give you too much credit.
 
rpadula said:
So what's the conclusion? You can't leave us hanging.
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I have some serious issues with the STC and the actual impossible legality of installing on PA32 stabilators. The gap seal ads 8" of aft CG and impossible to add enough weight to bring it into balance. We would need just under 1 lb of weight added to the counter balance in addition to max plates. That's insane for an STCed product.

With the seals and paint, they are .45 lbs. the raw seals are .4". That's just way too much weight added too far back on the control surface. Even if your stabilator shipped with no plates, adding max plates would bring you in close to maximum aft tolerance. Piper shipped a large swath with at least 3 plates or more. My had 4 from the factory and was 36.8", just barely legal with no speed mods installed. With the gap seal, we were at 45" aft.

I very seriously question any PA32 stabilator gap seals current installed. The STC requires a rebalance, but I highly doubt most are actually done. It's way too much work(read $$$) and blown off.

Bottom line, there is no possible way this peticular mod is legal or safe based on our findings. It cost me well over $1k to figure this out and I'm fucing ****ed.
 
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