One hand on the yoke?

RussR said:
I recently did flight reviews for two very experienced pilots - each has been flying for over 40 years. Neither one knows the other as far as I know.

They BOTH did the same thing which seemed bizarre to me - once set up and trimmed for that phase of flight, or maneuver, or whatever, they would very visibly take their hand off the yoke and let the plane fly. So, no hands on the yoke at all. It was almost like making a show of it.

Now, I've done this to show students the effects of trim and such, and from time to time if I'm flying long distances or something, but generally I always have one hand on the yoke, granted with a very light touch.

My question is, was this a "thing" decades ago in flight training? To prove you had things trimmed, or under control, or something, you'd take your hand off the yoke and show the instructor?

We're talking in steep turns, slow flight, basically any phase of flight where the controls weren't actually be moved at that time they both did this. With the first guy, I figured it was just a little quirk. But then the second guy did it too!
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I do this also. I think it's kind of a zen thing. Being in the moment with the machine. Not trying to impress anyone but myself.
 
RussR said:
They BOTH did the same thing which seemed bizarre to me - once set up and trimmed for that phase of flight, or maneuver, or whatever, they would very visibly take their hand off the yoke and let the plane fly. So, no hands on the yoke at all. It was almost like making a show of it...



We're talking in steep turns, slow flight, basically any phase of flight where the controls weren't actually be moved at that time they both did this. With the first guy, I figured it was just a little quirk. But then the second guy did it too!
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How does one fly hands off in steep turns??? In the PA-28 I have no aileron trim, and I always need a bit of opposite aileron to counter the overbanking tendency. In fact, steep turns are the only time I, as a newbie student pilot, use both hands, to pull up on the yoke as I don't like to trim for that short time.



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nevermind... Darn thing wouldn't quote...
 
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CrimsonFlyer said:
How does one fly hands off in steep turns??? In the PA-28 I have no aileron trim, and I always need a bit of opposite aileron to counter the overbanking tendency. In fact, steep turns are the only time I, as a newbie student pilot, use both hands, to pull up on the yoke as I don't like to trim for that short time.
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That one was in a 182. As I recall, he trimmed nose up as he rolled into the turn enough so he didn't have to pull back on the controls at all. Then I don't remember how he handled any overbanking tendency, maybe just gave little bumps with his hand on the yoke when necessary.

it was actually a very well-flown steep turn, well within Commercial standards.

You will find that many instructors have different opinions on whether or not to trim during a steep turn.
 
RussR said:
That one was in a 182. As I recall, he trimmed nose up as he rolled into the turn enough so he didn't have to pull back on the controls at all. Then I don't remember how he handled any overbanking tendency, maybe just gave little bumps with his hand on the yoke when necessary.

it was actually a very well-flown steep turn, well within Commercial standards.

You will find that many instructors have different opinions on whether or not to trim during a steep turn.
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You can do it with rudder and proper trim. If you roll into the next turn quick enough the ballooning is minimal and you stay within pts
 
Bob Hoover uses two hands on the yoke when doing aerobatics, although with both engines shut down there's really no need for a hand on the throttles.

http://youtu.be/g7R7jZmliGc
 
Catalo said:
You can do it with rudder and proper trim. If you roll into the next turn quick enough the ballooning is minimal and you stay within pts
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By definition, a steep turn is one where the overbanking tendency exceeds the longitudinal stability. Hence, some aileron opposite the turn will always be required in a steep turn.

Using rudder instead will lead to a slipping turn.

Right?
 
FastEddieB said:
By definition, a steep turn is one where the overbanking tendency exceeds the longitudinal stability. Hence, some aileron opposite the turn will always be required in a steep turn.

Using rudder instead will lead to a slipping turn.

Right?
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From the people ive seen do it (in the plane with them) they stayed coordinated. I havent done it myself just saying what they talked me through
 
FastEddieB said:
In my experience, 60° invariably requires aileron opposite the turn.

I suppose some planes might not need it, but generally I think they do.
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It was a piper Seminole. Not sure if it makes Difference. Maybe we were uncoordinated but from what I saw we weren't.
 
When I was still a low time student, I remember two handing an approach with the plane blowing around like crazy down final. Up, down, left, right... all I had to keep it going.

My instructor said, "take both hands off the yoke right now."

I did and the plane dropped to 65kts and flew straight and level right down to the runway.

My nervous hands and my over correction made it way, way worse compared to letting the plane do its own thing. And so it was, and so I learned.
 
While working with a beech instructor, he started getting frustrated with my ham fisted flying technique. "Give me that!" He said, and then move the throw over yoke to his side and instructed "fly the airplane!"

Would you believe you can totally fly an airplane (an old doctor killer at that) with the trim wheel and rudder pedals. Ok, one finger on the column to force things along a bit. Steep turns were controllable as well.

I guess put me down as a "look ma, no hands!"
 
brian];2019579 said:
While working with a beech instructor, he started getting frustrated with my ham fisted flying technique. "Give me that!" He said, and then move the throw over yoke to his side and instructed "fly the airplane!"

Would you believe you can totally fly an airplane (an old doctor killer at that) with the trim wheel and rudder pedals. Ok, one finger on the column to force things along a bit. Steep turns were controllable as well.

I guess put me down as a "look ma, no hands!"
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Sure... But is that the right way?
 
CrimsonFlyer said:
How does one fly hands off in steep turns??? In the PA-28 I have no aileron trim, and I always need a bit of opposite aileron to counter the overbanking tendency. In fact, steep turns are the only time I, as a newbie student pilot, use both hands, to pull up on the yoke as I don't like to trim for that short time.



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You can trim nose up and when you get it right it will hold the bank. Done it countless times in a Warrior, feet on the floor and hands off the yoke. It will go round and round until you alter it or run out of gas.
 
Yep, one hand....although I use two on takeoff in the CRJ since the captain already has the thrust levers!
 
What's the fun of flying friends if you can't sit back with your arms crossed on your chest and watch the world speed past???

One hand some times, no hands sometimes. When it's bouncy, or I'm about to penetrate a cloud, I'll sometimes put my right hand lightly in the yoke so I'm ready to catch gusts, bounces, etc. When it's rough, I have to consciously relax my grip on the yoke--I feel better and the plane handles better when I do.
 
I haven't tried it, but a steep turn over bank probably can be controlled by just the rudder the same way you us rudder to level the wings during a turning stall after one wing drops first instead of using the ailerons (which is bad).

My instructor would turn using the rudder and trim all the time, flying a pattern and landing without hands and was big on having me trim during the any turn.
 
jaymark6655 said:
I haven't tried it, but a steep turn over bank probably can be controlled by just the rudder the same way you us rudder to level the wings during a turning stall after one wing drops first instead of using the ailerons (which is bad).

My instructor would turn using the rudder and trim all the time, flying a pattern and landing without hands and was big on having me trim during the any turn.
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I'm sure it can, but it won't be coordinated.
 
CRAFT said:
You can trim nose up and when you get it right it will hold the bank. Done it countless times in a Warrior, feet on the floor and hands off the yoke. It will go round and round until you alter it or run out of gas.
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Yup, I have a PA-28-180C and I agree. In fact the other night I was #5 for the field and ATC told me to "Do some 360s out there" lol..

So throttled back put the plane in a turn and just enjoyed the sights..didn't even need to touch the yoke hardly at all (except for minor pitch changes).

In a Cessna 172 I learned that it's EXACTLY three full turns of the trim once you're established in a steep turn at the right speed. That'll keep you hands off going until you're ready to puke ;P
 
Cool - I tried to remember using one hand yesteday - did a better job of that - as well as using the trim wheel to relieve pressure...but I still found myself with two hands on the yoke sometimes...will have to keep working on that
 
CC268 said:
Cool - I tried to remember using one hand yesteday - did a better job of that - as well as using the trim wheel to relieve pressure...but I still found myself with two hands on the yoke sometimes...will have to keep working on that
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Won't be long before that is the only way you will be comfortable flying.
 
One thing I quickly learned about one handed flying is that YOU NEVER cross arms for your free hand.

E.g. If I'm flying from my right seat then I should only ever use my left hand as my task hand, unless the item needing changed is on my right. I had several instructors during airline training that yelled at me for crossing arms to change something.
 
jaymark6655 said:
I haven't tried it, but a steep turn over bank probably can be controlled by just the rudder the same way you us rudder to level the wings during a turning stall after one wing drops first instead of using the ailerons (which is bad).

My instructor would turn using the rudder and trim all the time, flying a pattern and landing without hands and was big on having me trim during the any turn.
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A steep turn with ailerons neutral requires a slip. The airplane's overbanking tendency has to be countered somehow.
 
One hand and trim. Two hands is a recipe for overcontrolling. Personally I couldn't feel the airplane if I used both hands. It suddenly becomes a muscle thing instead of a pressure thing.

Personally I can't stand seeing pilots use both hands. Non-pilots, sure. But pilots...c'mon. :)
 
With my old company we would rotate with two hands. Hand came off the throttles at V1 and onto the yoke. Shortly thereafter it was back to a one handed operation.
 
CC268 said:
Cool - I tried to remember using one hand yesteday - did a better job of that - as well as using the trim wheel to relieve pressure...but I still found myself with two hands on the yoke sometimes...will have to keep working on that
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There's nothing wrong with two hands on the yoke sometimes. There is no hard and fast rule, its just that two hands gripping the yoke is usually counterproductive as so many others have noted here.

I often place my palm up on the underside of the right side of the yoke during steep turns, and use it to add or remove a wee bit of pressure and find that works better to fine tune than just using my left hand in that situation.
 
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I never heard a driving instructor say to only use one hand on the steering wheel. F1 race car drivers don't use one hand. Using two hands iis better . For one the geometry of the wheel is such that turning left with your left hand is awkward if you are using a lot of deflection. Two hands allows your left hand to turn right and your right hand to turn left. Two hands also allow a balance of pressure between hands which is actually more precise so long as you don't death grip it. Additionally two hands puts less strain on the center bearing which in turn gives you slightly better feel.

You will also see aerobatic pilots use two hands on a center stick in some circumstances.

Try this experiment, throw a short punch with one hand directly in front of your chest. And see how quickly and precisely you can stop the motion, then try it with both hands cupped together. You naturally throw with one and stop the motion with the other and it is more of a precise stop. Your brain knows how to work your hands together as a team and two are better than one.

Don't get me wrong, I use one hand on the wheel 99% of the time but there is a time and place for two.

I do cringe when I see two hands on the yoke and an unattended throttle below 500ft.

Dave
 
My CFI told me finger and thumb. He would often tell me to "relax" which became code for "loosen your deathgrip, shake out your hand". It took many flights, now I don't thiink about it.
 
Two hands you are holding the whole plane up in the air. If you let go it will fall out of the sky
 
Back in the '70s or '80s Peter Garrison had an article in Flying magazine about the common two-handed control yoke. He proposed--and had drawings--of an airplane with yoke with only one handle on it, on the outboard side, along with some other mods I can't remember. His thought was that the whole thing isn't needed, so why have it in the way? I suppose the idea just evolved into the side stick.

Technically speaking, the control yoke is the mechanism behind the panel that the control wheel and its shaft connect to. It might be a tee-shape (think Cessna 172/180) or a Y-shape (Cessna 150) or an inverted U, like the Taylorcraft. It rocks fore and aft for elevator control and carries chains and sprockets for aileron control.

The thing you grab (with one hand!) is the control wheel. Some airplanes don't have yokes at all but they still have control wheels. Cessna 182 and 206 and 210, for instance.

Best thing is a stick. Many, many airplanes had sticks until more women wanted to start flying, back in the days when they still wore skirts most of the time. The stick made that a problem, especially getting in and out. So the airplane manufacturers began to promote the control wheel instead even though it cost more to build and added weight.

Lots of you guys are flying ladies' airplanes....:wink2:
 
Sgu2-22 said:
I never heard a driving instructor say to only use one hand on the steering wheel. F1 race car drivers don't use one hand. Using two hands iis better . For one the geometry of the wheel is such that turning left with your left hand is awkward if you are using a lot of deflection. Two hands allows your left hand to turn right and your right hand to turn left. Two hands also allow a balance of pressure between hands which is actually more precise so long as you don't death grip it. Additionally two hands puts less strain on the center bearing which in turn gives you slightly better feel.

You will also see aerobatic pilots use two hands on a center stick in some circumstances.

Try this experiment, throw a short punch with one hand directly in front of your chest. And see how quickly and precisely you can stop the motion, then try it with both hands cupped together. You naturally throw with one and stop the motion with the other and it is more of a precise stop. Your brain knows how to work your hands together as a team and two are better than one.

Don't get me wrong, I use one hand on the wheel 99% of the time but there is a time and place for two.

I do cringe when I see two hands on the yoke and an unattended throttle below 500ft.

Dave
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Performance driving classes teach you to drive with both hands, and to turn by pulling down on the wheel. For a left turn, shift your left hand higher and pull down--it's a much more accurate motion than lifting your right hand to make a left turn.

I sometimes do this in the plane, using my right hand to help make hard or long right turns. It's so much easier to pull down than to push up.

But mostly I fly with my left hand. Been driving mostly with one hand for most of my driving life, but on long trips I switch hands occasionally but not in the plane. Then again, a long flight is anything over 3 hours, which doesn't count as a long drive.
 
When I have the plane trimmed correctly, I can easily fly it with 2 fingers using left hand and right for throttle, flaps, mixture.
 
I don't buy that "women flying...skirts..." thing. :D

We would be hard pressed to find many pictures of female aviators in or with their airplanes wearing a dress or skirt. Even Jacqueline Cochran, who apparently fussed about "being feminine" is pictured in slacks almost all the time.

Methinks the yoke/wheel (whatever one wants to call it) was a post-WWII adoption attempting to persuade the public that flying a light airplane was just like driving a car.

As for "ladies airplanes" (and not wishing to offend the female pilots and owners on this forum), given the wife factor most of us have to deal with...they are all ladies airplanes :goofy:

Dan Thomas said:
Back in the '70s or '80s Peter Garrison had an article in Flying magazine about the common two-handed control yoke. He proposed--and had drawings--of an airplane with yoke with only one handle on it, on the outboard side, along with some other mods I can't remember. His thought was that the whole thing isn't needed, so why have it in the way? I suppose the idea just evolved into the side stick.

Technically speaking, the control yoke is the mechanism behind the panel that the control wheel and its shaft connect to. It might be a tee-shape (think Cessna 172/180) or a Y-shape (Cessna 150) or an inverted U, like the Taylorcraft. It rocks fore and aft for elevator control and carries chains and sprockets for aileron control.

The thing you grab (with one hand!) is the control wheel. Some airplanes don't have yokes at all but they still have control wheels. Cessna 182 and 206 and 210, for instance.

Best thing is a stick. Many, many airplanes had sticks until more women wanted to start flying, back in the days when they still wore skirts most of the time. The stick made that a problem, especially getting in and out. So the airplane manufacturers began to promote the control wheel instead even though it cost more to build and added weight.

Lots of you guys are flying ladies' airplanes....:wink2:
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Dan Thomas said:
A steep turn with ailerons neutral requires a slip. The airplane's overbanking tendency has to be countered somehow.
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First it is absolutely true that a Cessna 172 will stay in a level 55 to 60 degree banked turn with the ball in the middle and both hands and feet off of the controls almost indefinitely. No over banking.

But why?

If you imagine a 90 degree banked turn the elevator could not hold the nose up, the nose would drop and the top wing would generate more lift causing over banking. An aerobatic pilot has to deal with this in a Hammerhead turn by adding aileron to stop the roll.
In a steep turn of 60 degrees the airplane is going to slip to the inside (like sliding down a hill) it has to unless you use top rudder. This slip to the inside of the turn causes the over banking spiral instability the FAA talks about. However we use elevator to counteract this dropping of the nose. The airplane naturally will fly into the relative wind if it can and therefore There is no over banking tendency in steep level altitude turns with the ball centered. There is if you relax the back pressure and it can quickly lead to a spiral.


I could be wrong on this.

Dave
 
Sgu2-22 said:
First it is absolutely true that a Cessna 172 will stay in a level 55 to 60 degree banked turn with the ball in the middle and both hands and feet off of the controls almost indefinitely. No over banking.

But why?

If you imagine a 90 degree banked turn the elevator could not hold the nose up, the nose would drop and the top wing would generate more lift causing over banking. An aerobatic pilot has to deal with this in a Hammerhead turn by adding aileron to stop the roll.
In a steep turn of 60 degrees the airplane is going to slip to the inside (like sliding down a hill) it has to unless you use top rudder. This slip to the inside of the turn causes the over banking spiral instability the FAA talks about. However we use elevator to counteract this dropping of the nose. The airplane naturally will fly into the relative wind if it can and therefore There is no over banking tendency in steep level altitude turns with the ball centered. There is if you relax the back pressure and it can quickly lead to a spiral.


I could be wrong on this.

Dave
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Shucks... It's been many years but I always thought over banking tendency in steep turns was because the outer (high) wing had a faster IAS, thus created more lift.
 
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