Offensive comment to CFI

Reminds me of the time I used the phrase "whipping boy" and was told by a black colleague that it was offensive.

Whaaaa? That is surely not what I was referring to, and I'm pretty sure that is not what the phrase even means.
 
Reminds me of the time I used the phrase "whipping boy" and was told by a black colleague that it was offensive.



Whaaaa? That is surely not what I was referring to, and I'm pretty sure that is not what the phrase even means.


You correct, back England when a young prince would misbehave, you couldn't hit a prince, so they would have a stand in to take the punishment.
I question whether it was a deterrent, the whipping boy was usually a friend of the prince. You had to choose you friends wisely back then
 
In the OP's situation, if the lady instructor had asserted I'd made an offensive statement? I'd have told her to Bite Me, just so she understood my position.
 
What ever happened to good manners?

People who are overly polite tend to be the sketchy ones.

Yeah be polite, but if you come unglued based on a comment like the OP made, perhaps you don't belong in the outside world.
 
There was nothing in your statement over which she should have been offended. She appears to have been looking for reason to get ****ed at you. Personally, after her comment, I'd have asked her if it was her time of the month causing her bitchiness to ensure she reason to be offended.


Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4
 
It is a little sexist yes. Would the OP have used that expression if the instructor were male? This expression is directed more towards women (mothers) than to men. So yes it was a poor choice of expression. On the other hand she is being a little petty bringing it up. The professional thing would have been for her to just accept it seeing the OP is the customer and has the right to discontinue for any or no reason.
 
It is a little sexist yes.

Foul. You cannot possibly conclude this without knowing the speaker's state of mind at the time, and while it has become stylish these days for commentators to claim they can do this, when they do so, they are liars.

Would the OP have used that expression if the instructor were male? This expression is directed more towards women (mothers) than to men.

Don't think so - I hear it as an oft-used expression, applicable to pretty much anyone in a supervisor/trainee role (very common in the construction trades); also often heard, "purse strings," in reference to people who have never kept a nickel in a purse.

The professional thing would have been for her to just accept it seeing the OP is the customer and has the right to discontinue for any or no reason.

Too right.
 
Foul. You cannot possibly conclude this without knowing the speaker's state of mind at the time, and while it has become stylish these days for commentators to claim they can do this, when they do so, they are liars.

Well... I would argue that the statement is sexist if it can be perceived by the receiver that it is sexist. It does not matter what the state of mind is of the person uttering the comment. What matters is how it was received. And the evidence we have is that the receiver WAS offended.

:D
 
Well... I would argue that the statement is sexist if it can be perceived by the receiver that it is sexist. It does not matter what the state of mind is of the person uttering the comment. What matters is how it was received. And the evidence we have is that the receiver WAS offended.

:D

Yes, but then you have someone like my buddies wife who claimed that any statement no matter what it was, or anything can be offensive. I looked at her, and said, "I think your (plain) black coat is offensive." She shut up after realizing how inane her claim was.

Some people just aren't happy unless they are offended or a victim.
 
OK, it is sexist. You know this because it wouldn't make any sense, even comical sense if it had been about a man.
I don't think it was intended to be comical. It is simply a metaphor that illustrates his level of frustrating from feeling like she has infantilized him. It really has nothing to do with her. It is about him seen as a small child. It makes sense whether the CFI was male or female. Because she is female, the comparison is always going to be to the maternalistic, not the paternalistic. It is only offensive if you assume being a mother, as opposed to a father, is inferior.
 
Well... I would argue that the statement is sexist if it can be perceived by the receiver that it is sexist. It does not matter what the state of mind is of the person uttering the comment. What matters is how it was received. And the evidence we have is that the receiver WAS offended.

:D

This is a festering illness of our age.

You can tell me how you perceive something someone says, but absent a very explicit expression by the speaking party of their intent, no one can state what the speaker's intent, motive, was.

This is especially important in matters such as the subject at hand or (for example) issues of race; not every person is attuned to each and every means of offense, some because of poor educational attainment, some, because of lack of cultural awareness, some because they simply lack the mental faculties to recognize nuances.

It is useful (and sometimes important) to tell someone who has said (or written) something which has been perceived as offensive that such has occurred - one will most often find that the speaker had no such intent, and will wish to clarify and thus discharge the offense (and, in the process, perhaps learn something they did not theretofore know).

In any event, if I hear or read something which could be interpreted as either an offense or an innocent statement, am I not obligated to at least extend to them the courtesy of presuming no offense was intended until I learn (from them) otherwise before calling them out?

If I do not extend that essential courtesy, while the other person may have unintentionally caused offense, I will most certainly have done so in a much greater quantum and with absolute intent, and that would make make me the greater villain.

Be kind to others.
 
This thread has revised my view.

Men: Check your privilege. You are offensive.

Off to lop off some bits at Planned Conformity. May ask for some skin tint while I'm there. "Make mine melting-pot mahogany..... and I'd like to buy one alliterative nation reparation credit for my flippant use of their protected verbal motif"

(In seriousness.. I had not heard the apron-strings thing before... but I have worn an apron more than once, and would probably not assume the comment was sexist unless accompanied by other context clues, or reference to OP wanting a sandwich)
 
keep in mind that I was post solo. This was a dual night cross county. I said this in a joking manner, I am a pretty funny guy, not that this conversation would prove it. So yes I was poking at the CFi to loosen up.

she in fact is very smothering, far more than I knew at the time.

Just to clarify, yes I would say the same thing to a male CFi
 
keep in mind that I was post solo. This was a dual night cross county. I said this in a joking manner, I am a pretty funny guy, not that this conversation would prove it. So yes I was poking at the CFi to loosen up.

she in fact is very smothering, far more than I knew at the time.

Just to clarify, yes I would say the same thing to a male CFi

Nothing offensive AT ALL with your comment to the female CFI.

Unfortunately, in todays PC society everyone wants any excuse to be a victim. I suspect her source for daily news is MSNBC.
 
This thread has revised my view.

Men: Check your privilege. You are offensive.

Off to lop off some bits at Planned Conformity. May ask for some skin tint while I'm there. "Make mine melting-pot mahogany..... and I'd like to buy one alliterative nation reparation credit for my flippant use of their protected verbal motif"

(In seriousness.. I had not heard the apron-strings thing before... but I have worn an apron more than once, and would probably not assume the comment was sexist unless accompanied by other context clues, or reference to OP wanting a sandwich)
Your writings me laugh. Good stuff.

A true man doesn't need an apron. Confidence is frying bacon in the buff.
 
On a side note...

I've heard the expression before, and understand what it's trying to convey, but what exactly do apron strings have to do with being restrained? Umbilical cord I can understand, but apron strings?

Was there some generation of children whose mothers tied them up with their aprons, dragging them along like puppies on a leash?
 
On a side note...

I've heard the expression before, and understand what it's trying to convey, but what exactly do apron strings have to do with being restrained? Umbilical cord I can understand, but apron strings?

Was there some generation of children whose mothers tied them up with their aprons, dragging them along like puppies on a leash?

I believe it comes from a child's tendency to clinch onto its mother. If she has an apron on, then that's what the child will hold on to.
 
I believe it comes from a child's tendency to clinch onto its mother. If she has an apron on, then that's what the child will hold on to.

So... A woman's offense at the saying would demean all fathers who remain in the home to raise children?

To call the thing sexist is to espouse old fashioned gender roles?
 
So... A woman's offense at the saying would demean all fathers who remain in the home to raise children?

To call the thing sexist is to espouse old fashioned gender roles?

I prefer old fashioned gender roles to kids having two dads. Sue me.
 
I'm a proud apron wearing dad. Normally it's soaked in pig and cow blood (and mine, if I cut myself), but still...
 
I really want to comment but afraid I would offend someone. :D

If she finds that offensive I have no doubt she holds other views that I would not want to spend my hard earned money supporting.

I would move on.
 
On a side note...

I've heard the expression before, and understand what it's trying to convey, but what exactly do apron strings have to do with being restrained? Umbilical cord I can understand, but apron strings?

Was there some generation of children whose mothers tied them up with their aprons, dragging them along like puppies on a leash?


I admit I had to look this up as well. Was before my generation. From Yahoo Answers....

Best Answer (Chosen by Asker)
Do you mean, "cut the apron strings"?

In past centuries, toddlers wore aprons or pinafores to keep their clothes clean. These aprons had a pair ribbons or tapes ("strings") sewn to the shoulders or back, which the mother would hold onto, rather like a leash. When the child was old enough to be allowed some independence, the tapes would be cut off. So, "cutting the apron strings" means becoming independent from one's mother or other protector/authority figure and going out on one's own.
 
Freedom-Censored-Man-Taped-Mouth.jpg


For oh so many reasons...
 
I really want to comment but afraid I would offend someone. :D

If she finds that offensive I have no doubt she holds other views that I would not want to spend my hard earned money supporting.

I would move on.


I find that offensive...:lol::lol::lol:

My thoughts are this female CFI may be priming herself for a future lawsuit with a future deep pocket company.
 
I'm a woman. I do not see that expression as sexist. If anything, you should be offended as she's implying men can't wear aprons.

I've got a great picture at home of my dad wearing an apron, getting ready to carve the Thanksgiving turkey. As I recall, the apron says, "For this I spent 4 years in college?" To add to the humor, dad was a retired university professor, so he had a bit more than 4 years of college to his credit. Damn, I miss him.
 
The problem with stuff like this is if you asked me if that statement was sexist/offensive I'd say no. I'm pretty sure my wife would say no... other women in this thread said no.

Then some others think yes and I scratch my head to figure out how, but the feeling is there and I understand that's the point right?

But here's the trouble.... some of us just don't get offended. I'm one of those people to whom you can say damn near anything and I won't be offended by it. Choice of words or phrases means nothing to me at all. So for me to predict what some other person will be offended by is nearly impossible. I'm not out to hurt anyone but for me... because I just don't get offended... these things are like landmines. I will never ever see them and I will step right into them and be completely unaware it even happened unless someone points it out. Yes this happens to me sometimes.

For me the only way I can avoid offending anyone is to not talk.... ok well I've offended people by not talking before too(seriously) so the only way I can avoid it is sit in my house and not talk to anyone unless I know they're like me.

OR... perhaps the sensitive people can pay attention to the context and realize my meaning even if they don't like my words? I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. And should I step on that mine, I'll gladly just say "sorry" if you let me know it happened. Just don't expect me to fall on my sword or shed any tears....
 
Be careful, that's almost hate speech now.

You are right. It takes just one idiot to decide he might want to take offense to your given right of freedom of speech and it will lead to a deleted post and 1 strike from the moderators. Yay "freedom"!

To stay on topic: whether my CFI(I) is male, female, whire, pink, green with antennas or the 3-b*easted Martian h00ker (extra brownie points if you get this reference), doesn't matter to me, as long as they are somehow patient, show up on time, are able to teach me something, analyze my mistakes and help me fix them and most of all have a GOOD sense of humor.
Life without humor is pointless. (why do you think it's the only commonality that survives all regimes?)
 
Then some others think yes and I scratch my head to figure out how, but the feeling is there and I understand that's the point right?


The how is easy. There's a low performance end of every Bell Curve. In this case, the emotional development curve.

If some haven't emotionally developed beyond Jr. High age levels of interaction, it's really not up to the rest of the adults to coddle them, but for the moment it's pop culture to do so.
 
I find that being direct solves alot of the problems. . .

"so, by your comment, you think I'm sexist?"

Which lets her vent. Then you can tell her that if she thinks you are truly sexist, then she make the decision about your continuing relationship.

I ALWAYS call people out on their passive aggressive BS. I ask them if they feel or believe what their comment is implying. Its much easier that way - then you get it all out in the open and you can either walk away clean or resolve the bs.
 
I did a checkout with a female CFI a few years ago, and I made a quip about how ground "always gets their panties in a bunch" about some bad radio calls we were hearing.

She said "yeah, but no worries - I don't wear panties."

I said "Too bad we're in a Skyhawk and not a Commanche then."

She asked "Why is that?"

I said "Next radio call would be 'Ground, Commando 72 Whiskey ready to taxi' "

She grinned, I blushed, checkout flight completed with no further flirting.

Am I the only one that really enjoyed that story?

Does that make me sexist? :stirpot:
 
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