NW flight overflies destination

[Cap'n Jack]

Scott- that looks like a new Boeing 787 in the picture- when did NWA get those?

 

[Everskyward]

The transcript of the CVR is now available

Now that there is funny. "Return to the highlighted route..."

 

[thepetrostate]

I'm not in the flight safety business. My opinion on this matter reflects
ONLY that aspect of the incident and is not intended to reflect the
legal end of the equation.
For me, the answer is obvious. Had I been asked for input on what
transpired that input would directly address the fact that by
definition, this aircraft while in operation requires a pilot in
command at all times. In the flight safety context, this equates to no
action taking place concerning the operation of the aircraft that is
accomplished without the complete knowledge and consent of that pilot
in command. In other words, this aircraft was, at various times during
the progress of it's flight, NOT in control of the required decision
making process of BOTH the pilots in question AND the ATC on the
ground responsible for traffic separation.
As it happens, several actions occurred during the flight that
resulted in this aircraft proceeding outside the direct control of ATC
due to action by the aircraft without input of a pilot in command.
This alone in my opinion is a career ending action. Were these pilots
in my employ I would have terminated them immediately based on the
above observation alone.
In the flight safety business, what a pilot did prior to an incident
involving this kind of negligence is of absolutely no consequence
whatsoever. Were this the case, first time pilot error and negligence
would be non-existent as a possible cause. The fact that no accident
took place during this incident is fortunate but one has to consider
that ANY avoidance action resulting in no accident having taken place
has to be attributed to sources outside the aircraft. ATC, due to lack
of requested response had no choice but to take action designed to
insure the security and safety of this aircraft. Such action had to be
taken without the involvement of any pilot in command inside the
aircraft.
Not being a safety adviser, there is absolutely no argument with the
FAA action based on the safety issue. As I said, the legal issues are
another matter yet to be decided.

 

[bjohnson]

FAA Revocation letter

 

[timwinters]

The letter states in item 13 that they were out of contact from 7:23 CDT to 8:14 CDT but then, in item 17, states that they were out of contact for 91 minutes.

Huh?

I also found it interesting that the letter referenced local time rather than Zulu.

 

[Ghery]

Including striking.

Isn't that when the President steps in? Another fiasco!

As President Reagan saw it, he did not fire them; he merely accepted their informal resignations.

When I worked for the Navy in the late 1970s one of the first pieces of paper I signed was an agreement that I would not strike against the government, and that if I did I would be fired. Standard Civil Service paperwork. I'm sure those controllers signed the same form when they were hired and President Reagan simply held them to the agreement they signed. I expected nothing else when they struck.

 

[poadeleted20]

When I worked for the Navy in the late 1970s one of the first pieces of paper I signed was an agreement that I would not strike against the government, and that if I did I would be fired. Standard Civil Service paperwork. I'm sure those controllers signed the same form when they were hired

They did.

 

[Everskyward]

It's not hard at all for the FAA to decertify a controller and take them/keep them off the scopes. That's not the same thing as firing them, which, as we've seen, may take a presidential directive.

Maybe not...

FAA Proposes to Fire Controllers in Fatal NYC Crash

Nov. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Aviation Administration proposed firing an air traffic controller and supervisor on duty when a helicopter and airplane collided over the Hudson River in August, killing nine people.
The two are appealing and continue to be paid, and no final determination has been made, said Laura Brown, an FAA spokeswoman. Randy Babbitt, the Washington-based agency’s administrator, told reporters earlier today they were fired.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

OK, this is pretty funny: