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False. It is not illegal to collect data on gun deaths.

(e.g., - you can look at FBI statistics)
Heck, Texas has statistics on CHL holders and crime in general. The results are NOT embarrassing. In fact, I doubt the actual statistics nationwide would be in the anti-gunners' favor, but they just throw that out there to "prove" that the NRA or whomever is against logic and reason and people buy it because they are ignorant.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

P R O P A G A N D A :nono:

Stop inciting fear. No one's coming for your guns. There's a small insignificant percentage of the population that thinks that would address the problem and an even smaller percentage of the population that thinks that's possible.
Um, they SAY they are coming after our guns...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/o...-in-america.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur

Certain kinds of weapons, like the slightly modified combat rifles (LOL) used in California, and certain kinds of ammunition, must be outlawed for civilian ownership. It is possible to define those guns in a clear and effective way and, yes, it would require Americans who own those kinds of weapons to give them up for the good of their fellow citizens.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/gun-violence-prevention/

Keep military-style weapons off our streets. Military-style assault weapons do not belong on our streets. They are a danger to law enforcement and to our communities. Hillary will work to keep assault weapons off our streets and supports reinstating the assault weapons ban.

And no, if I happen to still own an AR-15 and that happens, I'm not just giving it up.
 
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I often wonder, watching how public discourse goes, if people understand just how big the US actually is both geographically and in terms of population. I also wonder if people are fully aware that just because they're seeing a lot of something on TV, it doesn't mean there's an "epidemic" or "serious threat" necessarily.



I know we're all used to seeing misleading, cherry picked, and outright BS on this issue but here's a report from the DOJ, probably the closest thing to an unbiased and reputable source I know of. I know it's long but at least read the highlights page if you care about this issue.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf



Here are two me the most significant two highlights from all that...





So, gun violence is down. That doesn't sell newspapers(or should that be get clicks now?) though so... you never hear this.



But hey, we always want to do better, especially talking about people's lives right?



Soooo..... why are we always talking about AR-15s? Why not go after handguns?





Here's a thought for some common sense legislation that I just know everyone will hate because it isn't a ban and is regulation but I'll throw it out here anyway. How about to purchase/carry/possess a handgun we require you to get a federal concealed carry permit, requiring the type of training and extra background checks typical for a concealed carry permit. This permit is a single 50-state concealed carry. If you have a valid one, you can carry throughout the entire US and not worry about being arrested on some technicality. On the flipside, someone not holding this card and carrying can go direct to jail.


Or we can have Constitutional carry, meaning no permit, but prosecute crimes involving guns to the fullest extent of the law, and prohibit prosecutors, district attorneys, and judges from allowing the federal gun crime to be pleaded away. Today, that's the first crime that is dropped.
 
Um, they SAY they are coming after our guns...


And no, if I happen to still own an AR-15 and that happens, I'm not just giving it up.




You gonna shoot a bunch of cops or soldiers?


How'd you survive Jade Helm?
 
Yeah using the POTUS agenda we must out law plumbing :)

P R O P A G A N D A :nono:

Stop inciting fear. No one's coming for your guns. There's a small insignificant percentage of the population that thinks that would address the problem and an even smaller percentage of the population that thinks that's possible.[/QUOTE

Talk about propaganda.
 
You gonna shoot a bunch of cops or soldiers?

How'd you survive Jade Helm?
No, I'm not shooting cops or soldiers, but they ain't finding it, either.
And I mocked Jade Helm loudly on Facebook. Pretty funny actually as I do have plenty of real tin-foil, chemtrail type "friends."
 
No one's coming for your guns.

Not mine, but they should be coming after several million of them already in the wrong hands, but they won't simply because the POTUS must have reason to change the rules.

But they can't do that either, because that would require illegal search and seizure under the constitution, or a million search warrants.
 
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Let's be realistic, nobody is going to come to your house and demand you surrender your gun. A law like that would never pass and few of the anti-gun people are foolish enough to try. Militia types aside, the sheer logistics of such an operation would be nearly impossible.

What they'll do is ban the sale of certain types of guns, put restrictions on ammunition purchase and similar things. Maybe in the extreme they might ask for voluntary surrender but I doubt it. There will be uproar, protest, etc. Lots of people will stash their AR-15 up in the attic or somewhere nobody will look. A decade or two will pass, it will be the new normal. Those attic AR-15s will still be around, more the talk of legend than anything you really encounter. The big fear of course is that then they take something else, do it again a few year later, and so on....

The one thing I wish my fellow gun owners would get is that these are not conspiratorial people, evil people, or even stupid people. They have a different life experience and a completely different way of thinking about guns than we do. I've seen people who know me well come into my house and nearly jump because there's a gun out on a table. They know the people in the room, the gun is just sitting there, what are they afraid of? They're afraid of the gun as an object... it's just how some people are. That colors their views as much as our comfort with guns colors ours.

We need to be talking to these people, thinking of reasonable ways we could ease their fears without compromise to our rights. I say this again and again- gun people need to be the ones writing the gun laws. Imagine if non-pilots were writing all of the regulations for our airplanes.... that's pretty much what we have now with guns. Let's think about fixing that.
 
Not mine, but they should be coming after several million of them already in the wrong hands, but they won't simply because the POTUS must have reason to change the rules.

But they can't do that either, because that would require illegal search and seizure under the constitution, or a million search warrants.
no worries....POTUS would never do something unconstitutional......:yikes::D
 
Let's be realistic, nobody is going to come to your house and demand you surrender your gun. A law like that would never pass and few of the anti-gun people are foolish enough to try. Militia types aside, the sheer logistics of such an operation would be
impossible.

Show me a fool proof method of removing all guns from illegal hands, and I'll give you mine.
 
You gonna shoot a bunch of cops or soldiers?


How'd you survive Jade Helm?
How do you suppose they will know wether or not he has an AR? It's why banning private sales between individuals won't work. How are they going to prove when a gun changed hands? How will they know who owned it in the first place?
 
The one thing I wish my fellow citizenswould get is that the opposition partyare not conspiratorial people, evil people, or even stupid people. They have a different life experience and a completely different way of thinking about (insert issue here)

There, fixed it for ya. And we couldn't be more in agreement.
 
Not mine, but they should be coming after several million of them already in the wrong hands, but they won't simply because the POTUS must have reason to change the rules.

But they can't do that either, because that would require illegal search and seizure under the constitution, or a million search warrants.

Please be careful when you parse quotes, the quote you attributed to me was not mine.
 
Well, if you would like to read the writings of Jay Dickey, of whom the Dickey Amendment named, here is a link.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-look-for-it/2012/07/27/gJQAPfenEX_print.html

well, if you read it you might have noticed Congress didn't fund the CDC to come up with these idiotic "studies" about guns.

But you claimed "And, let's remember, the NRA has successfully lobbied congress to prevent any sort of data collection on gun deaths."

not the same thing.
 
Let's be realistic, nobody is going to come to your house and demand you surrender your gun. A law like that would never pass and few of the anti-gun people are foolish enough to try. Militia types aside, the sheer logistics of such an operation would be nearly impossible.

What they'll do is ban the sale of certain types of guns, put restrictions on ammunition purchase and similar things. Maybe in the extreme they might ask for voluntary surrender but I doubt it. There will be uproar, protest, etc. Lots of people will stash their AR-15 up in the attic or somewhere nobody will look. A decade or two will pass, it will be the new normal. Those attic AR-15s will still be around, more the talk of legend than anything you really encounter. The big fear of course is that then they take something else, do it again a few year later, and so on....

The one thing I wish my fellow gun owners would get is that these are not conspiratorial people, evil people, or even stupid people. They have a different life experience and a completely different way of thinking about guns than we do. I've seen people who know me well come into my house and nearly jump because there's a gun out on a table. They know the people in the room, the gun is just sitting there, what are they afraid of? They're afraid of the gun as an object... it's just how some people are. That colors their views as much as our comfort with guns colors ours.

We need to be talking to these people, thinking of reasonable ways we could ease their fears without compromise to our rights. I say this again and again- gun people need to be the ones writing the gun laws. Imagine if non-pilots were writing all of the regulations for our airplanes.... that's pretty much what we have now with guns. Let's think about fixing that.
New York and Oregon are already happening, as was a roundup of guns from military veterans in California.

The big problem with this stuff that I have is that the anti-gunners - the people in opposition are PLENTY happy for SOMEONE to have a gun - to take away mine. They just want it to be a cop or a soldier.
 
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Oddly, 100% did not have a mental illness.

Oddly, 100% did not have criminal records or illegally obtain the guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oddly, 100% involved guns.
 
Oddly, 100% involved guns.
Only because we have chosen as a society to frame it that way. How many more involved knives, hammers, cars, or other weapons? If you sort violence only by "gun violence" of course 100% will have guns. :rolleyes: That's dumb.
 
You said that cars are far more regulated than guns. Facts are that cars kill FAR more people than guns. So, the regulations you propose will kill more people than they save.

Not true. Pretty much even at this point. How f'ed up is that?

http://aresarmor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/guns-vs-car-deaths-2015.jpg

The fact is that the US has a gun problem. The numbers don't lie.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/560/me...if/_64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif

My impression is that many Americans don't realize how bad the problem is in our country because they don't know any other reality. The only way reach a solution is to filter out the extreme rhetoric from both sides and present commonsense regulations to what kind of guns/ammo can be bought and the how civilians may purchase said guns/ammo.

Until the NRA looses it stranglehold on our lawmakers, I don't see logic ever making it's way to the table. I must say it's always refreshing when NRA members like Landsickness can rationally discuss the issues without getting all Cliven Bundy on the topic. I can assuredly tell you that the VAST majority of "liberals" have no desire to take away everybody's guns. That myth holds as much water as Obama's "Death Panels".


RyanShort1, did you actually read the Op-ed? it's simply talking about banning certain assault weapons. Seems like a sensible place to start.
 
Not true. Pretty much even at this point. How f'ed up is that?

http://aresarmor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/guns-vs-car-deaths-2015.jpg

The fact is that the US has a gun problem. The numbers don't lie.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/560/me...if/_64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif

My impression is that many Americans don't realize how bad the problem is in our country because they don't know any other reality. The only way reach a solution is to filter out the extreme rhetoric from both sides and present commonsense regulations to what kind of guns/ammo can be bought and the how civilians may purchase said guns/ammo.

Until the NRA looses it stranglehold on our lawmakers, I don't see logic ever making it's way to the table. I must say it's always refreshing when NRA members like Landsickness can rationally discuss the issues without getting all Cliven Bundy on the topic. I can assuredly tell you that the VAST majority of "liberals" have no desire to take away everybody's guns. That myth holds as much water as Obama's "Death Panels".



RyanShort1, did you actually read the Op-ed? it's simply talking about banning certain assault weapons. Seems like a sensible place to start.

Nope, nobody want to take any guns.
 
Only because we have chosen as a society to frame it that way. How many more involved knives, hammers, cars, or other weapons? If you sort violence only by "gun violence" of course 100% will have guns. :rolleyes: That's dumb.


100% of the mass shootings involved guns


That was established on Page 1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Only because we have chosen as a society to frame it that way. How many more involved knives, hammers, cars, or other weapons? If you sort violence only by "gun violence" of course 100% will have guns. :rolleyes: That's dumb.

You said in 13 words what I said in 3.
That's dumb.
 
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My impression is that many Americans don't realize how bad the problem is in our country because they don't know any other reality.

True, and also true is that murders are way down from their peaks in the US, reinforcing the notion that everything is ok.

Until the NRA looses it stranglehold on our lawmakers, I don't see logic ever making it's way to the table.

The craziest thing about the NRA's ability to suck all the oxygen out of the room is:

1) They only have 7% of gun owners as members.

2) Most of their funding comes from gun makers, not gun owners.

They don't represent the views of most americans, yet they punch like Mike Tyson at his peak.
 
Heck, Texas has statistics on CHL holders and crime in general. The results are NOT embarrassing. In fact, I doubt the actual statistics nationwide would be in the anti-gunners' favor, but they just throw that out there to "prove" that the NRA or whomever is against logic and reason and people buy it because they are ignorant.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm


Um, they SAY they are coming after our guns...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/o...-in-america.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur



https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/gun-violence-prevention/



And no, if I happen to still own an AR-15 and that happens, I'm not just giving it up.
The Second Amendment is a mere handful of votes and a Constitution-hating president away from being eviscerated. Jose knows it, dems know it, and politicians know it. But they are too cowardly to actually come out and say what they are dying to say: "confiscation."
 
It's not.
The fact is that the US has a gun problem. The numbers don't lie.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/560/me...if/_64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif
It's still actually a VERY small number. That's 3% of 1%... for comparison, it looks like more infants die, than people die of "gun violence."

http://www.cdc.gov/sids/data.htm

My impression is that many Americans don't realize how bad the problem is in our country because they don't know any other reality. The only way reach a solution is to filter out the extreme rhetoric from both sides and present commonsense regulations to what kind of guns/ammo can be bought and the how civilians may purchase said guns/ammo.
I love how there has been this noticeable shift to calling our words "extreme rhetoric." Also, common sense is bull. What passes for "common sense" these days - going to a Walmart for example - is not something I want to subject myself to. Reason and logic are not being properly taught - which is actually a lot of the root of this mess, not the guns.

Until the NRA looses it stranglehold on our lawmakers, I don't see logic ever making it's way to the table. I must say it's always refreshing when NRA members like Landsickness can rationally discuss the issues without getting all Cliven Bundy on the topic. I can assuredly tell you that the VAST majority of "liberals" have no desire to take away everybody's guns. That myth holds as much water as Obama's "Death Panels".
Ok, some education here. First off, the NRA is only as powerful as it is because of the large number of people behind it. I'm not an NRA member, but I know a lot of their members, and that membership base is pretty big, and even more people that are not NRA members agree with them.

Even liberal media outlets like CNN occasionally give us a glimpse of the truth of this... http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/

"The NRA's ability to raise so much money from small donations is highly unusual for a special interest group, demonstrating its wide reaching support, said Sarah Bryner, research director at the Center for Responsive Politics."



RyanShort1, did you actually read the Op-ed? it's simply talking about banning certain assault weapons. Seems like a sensible place to start.
I read it three times. It's NOT sensible. It's un-Constitutional and it represents a significant threat to the people. The elite have nothing against guns - in their own hands, and the hands of those who worship them (statists). They know that their regulations and rules won't really keep terrorists, gangs, or mafia organizations from getting weapons. They have to know that. It also won't keep guns out of the hands of enemy countries, or those that the enemy country wants to support - heck, we gladly give out advanced weaponry like TOW missiles to borderline-terrorist organizations in Syria if they might use them against Russian tanks. But downgraded (seriously, an AR-15 is NOT an M4 with full auto capability) "military style" weapons in the hands of the populace is what they don't like. The 2nd Amendment is ALL about that. It's what keeps us a relatively "free State."
 
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Let's be realistic, nobody is going to come to your house and demand you surrender your gun. A law like that would never pass and few of the anti-gun people are foolish enough to try. Militia types aside, the sheer logistics of such an operation would be nearly impossible.

What they'll do is ban the sale of certain types of guns, put restrictions on ammunition purchase and similar things. Maybe in the extreme they might ask for voluntary surrender but I doubt it. There will be uproar, protest, etc. Lots of people will stash their AR-15 up in the attic or somewhere nobody will look. A decade or two will pass, it will be the new normal. Those attic AR-15s will still be around, more the talk of legend than anything you really encounter. The big fear of course is that then they take something else, do it again a few year later, and so on....

The one thing I wish my fellow gun owners would get is that these are not conspiratorial people, evil people, or even stupid people. They have a different life experience and a completely different way of thinking about guns than we do. I've seen people who know me well come into my house and nearly jump because there's a gun out on a table. They know the people in the room, the gun is just sitting there, what are they afraid of? They're afraid of the gun as an object... it's just how some people are. That colors their views as much as our comfort with guns colors ours.

We need to be talking to these people, thinking of reasonable ways we could ease their fears without compromise to our rights. I say this again and again- gun people need to be the ones writing the gun laws. Imagine if non-pilots were writing all of the regulations for our airplanes.... that's pretty much what we have now with guns. Let's think about fixing that.

"Gun people" wrote the first gun law - around 1791. Every subsequent gun law diminishes the first.
 
well, if you read it you might have noticed Congress didn't fund the CDC to come up with these idiotic "studies" about guns.

But you claimed "And, let's remember, the NRA has successfully lobbied congress to prevent any sort of data collection on gun deaths."

not the same thing.

The facts don't matter to the Brady Campaign and all the sycophants who cite their talking points.
 
Point of fact, Ryan. It doesn't take much to legally convert your "downgraded " AR15 to fire 900 rounds per minute, or 100 more than your M4.

Don't know if the S.B. murderers ad bump fire conversions or not.
 
Point of fact, Ryan. It doesn't take much to legally convert your "downgraded " AR15 to fire 900 rounds per minute, or 100 more than your M4.

Don't know if the S.B. murderers ad bump fire conversions or not.
And NO one I know does that or has done that, and no one is even claiming in the media that it is happening. Full auto is for keeping heads down, taking out vehicles, not for precision fire. There are registered machine guns (definitely an infringement) here in the US - go look up how many of them have been used in crimes.
 
The Second Amendment is a mere handful of votes and a Constitution-hating president away from being eviscerated. Jose knows it, dems know it, and politicians know it. But they are too cowardly to actually come out and say what they are dying to say: "confiscation."


Are you able to discuss the topic without demonizing those who have a different opinion than you?

Or is that not an ability you have developed?
 
I think the idea of not allowing people on the no-fly list to buy a gun makes a lot of sense.
Why the negative reaction from many conservatives?
 
And NO one I know does that or has done that, and no one is even claiming in the media that it is happening. Full auto is for keeping heads down, taking out vehicles, not for precision fire. There are registered machine guns (definitely an infringement) here in the US - go look up how many of them have been used in crimes.

Fine.

Is it or is it not legally possible to convert an AR15 to fire as many or more rounds per minute as an M4?
 
Fine.

Is it or is it not legally possible to convert an AR15 to fire as many or more rounds per minute as an M4?
Chip it's illegal....but those who seek mayhem and reek havoc aren't exactly law abiding.....:no:

...and if we agree to take away every single firearm ever made....they'd find something else even more lethal.
 
I think the idea of not allowing people on the no-fly list to buy a gun makes a lot of sense.
Why the negative reaction from many conservatives?
Because you could end up on the watch list because your name is the same as someone else... or because you have a political disagreement with someone that has access to the list. There are plenty of reasons not to trust that. Also because it is very hard to get off of the list, or prove that you shouldn't be on it. I know of a few people that got put on the list. Right now, if you happen to believe that abortion is wrong the talk this past week was that your rhetoric saying that abortion is murder might be encouraging domestic terrorists like the sicko that attacked that PP... so just by virtue of believing that a baby has a soul before coming out of the womb, you're potentially linked to a "terrorist."
 
Chip it's illegal....but those who seek mayhem and reek havoc aren't exactly law abiding.....:no:

...and if we agree to take away every single firearm ever made....they'd find something else even more lethal.

Show me where the slide fire stock is illegal. Heck, I think they just cut the price by $100.
 
Fine.

Is it or is it not legally possible to convert an AR15 to fire as many or more rounds per minute as an M4?
Probably easier to convert an AK-47 but no one, not one major media outlet I've seen so far is accusing any of the terrorists from doing that, so it's irrelevant. Semi-auto weapons have been around for a long time at this point, and have been available in the United States for that time as well. The change is in the people's lives, not in the gun capabilities.
 
Show me where the slide fire stock is illegal. Heck, I think they just cut the price by $100.
Oh....I thought you were referring to the auto fire pin modificaiton....yeah the sliding stock is a common option. My son's airsoft guns have them....probably the same stocks.

btw.....I took time this afternoon and passed around the 9mm with my girls and the wife....let them practice cocking and loading....and become familiar with it.:yes:
 
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It's not.


It's still actually a VERY small number. That's 3% of 1%... for comparison, it looks like more infants die, than people die of "gun violence."

We can agree to disagree. See the stats for every other country. We're just a hair better off than Mexico and Brazil.
 
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