NOTAM garbage

Tinstafl

Tinstafl

Pre-Flight
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Tinstafl
Ok, this is not so much a rant as it is a real question provoked by an NTSB video someone posted in another thread. It’s the NTSB calling out the NOTAM system as the general “garbage” (their words, not mine) that we all know it is.

I’m curious what ideas might be out there for how to definitively fix the system. There seems to be little FAA bandwidth for fixing it and I’m not really sure I have any good ideas for it myself.

Like most of us, on any given flight I have multiple pages of NOTAMs that I’m required to review, and often, buried in there is something that actually IS critical. But it is EXTREMELY easy to miss things.

Could we shift to graphical representations like the graphical forecasts that made things. so much easier to visualize? Not all NOTAM items lend themselves to a graphical presentation. But the critical items like runway and taxiway closures and NAVAID outages could be - and then easily incorporated in Foreflight or Garmin Pilot.

Anyway, what ideas are out there floating around? Or, maybe more pertinent, what strategies do some people use for efficiently and comprehensively meeting the goals and letter of the law on every single flight?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Foreflight has been good at providing notifications of runway and airport closures, outside of the pages of drivel.
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I agree Foreflight’s presentation has been useful. I’d argue that it’s still just working to make a broken system somewhat more useable. I’ll take the improvement but it still needs help.
 
One relatively “minor” thing is taxiway closures (I know - minor until it becomes a Really Big Deal). It seems like that would be a relatively simple issue to resolve graphically and it can save a not insignificant amount of head down time to do the mad scramble to note (and draw) a myriad of closures at a complex Bravo for a cross airport night time taxi on a quick turn after an asap callout that allowed 20 minutes for flight planning on a 4 leg trip…to say nothing about the destination taxiway closures…

lol. not that that’s happened or anything.

It’s just an element that could work so much better. And eliminate or reduce significant risks

I know, i know… that’s aviation… :-)
 
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And if I’m ever in a situation where I lost an engine on rotation and am am now somehow at a level of single engine performance that outclimbing that fenceline 12’ high at 852’ from DER and 567’ right of CL is an actual question … and that obstruction was buried in the middle of 48 other NOTAMed obstructions…

So, I either memorized all of them or noted
every.
single.
obstruction.

on my EFB.

well … then either fate has my number that day or it doesn’t. God it’s a terrible system.

I just turned this into an actual rant didn’t I. Forgive me.
 
Tinstafl said:
...
Like most of us, on any given flight I have multiple pages of NOTAMs that I’m required to review, and often, buried in there is something that actually IS critical. But it is EXTREMELY easy to miss things.
...
Anyway, what ideas are out there floating around? Or, maybe more pertinent, what strategies do some people use for efficiently and comprehensively meeting the goals and letter of the law on every single flight?
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One simple improvement would be to rank each NOTAM on a simple scale indicating its importance. Something like, (1) are direct impacts to flight, like a navaid U/S or an uncharted obstruction like a temporary crane. (2) are indirect impacts to flights, like fuel being unavailable or taxiway lights U/S. Everything else is a (3).
 
MRC01 said:
One simple improvement would be to rank each NOTAM on a simple scale indicating its importance. Something like, (1) are direct impacts to flight, like a navaid U/S or an uncharted obstruction like a temporary crane. (2) are indirect impacts to flights, like fuel being unavailable or taxiway lights U/S. Everything else is a (3).
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How I was taught task management / prioritization: (1) time sensitive and important, (2) important, (3) out of specs . . . everything else.

Do (1)s. Do (2)s when you finish all (1)s.

Make a new list.

(3)s will resolve themselves or become (2)s.
 
I still don't understand why, at a controlled airport (particularly where it's 24/7), taxiway closures are both a NOTAM and frequently a LONG addition to the end of the ATIS. For one, closed taxiways are generally blocked and lighted. Second, I'm going to be receiving taxi instructions anyway from the controller.
 
Tinstafl said:
Ok, this is not so much a rant as it is a real question provoked by an NTSB video someone posted in another thread. It’s the NTSB calling out the NOTAM system as the general “garbage” (their words, not mine) that we all know it is.

I’m curious what ideas might be out there for how to definitively fix the system. There seems to be little FAA bandwidth for fixing it and I’m not really sure I have any good ideas for it myself.

Like most of us, on any given flight I have multiple pages of NOTAMs that I’m required to review, and often, buried in there is something that actually IS critical. But it is EXTREMELY easy to miss things.

Could we shift to graphical representations like the graphical forecasts that made things. so much easier to visualize? Not all NOTAM items lend themselves to a graphical presentation. But the critical items like runway and taxiway closures and NAVAID outages could be - and then easily incorporated in Foreflight or Garmin Pilot.

Anyway, what ideas are out there floating around? Or, maybe more pertinent, what strategies do some people use for efficiently and comprehensively meeting the goals and letter of the law on every single flight?
Click to expand...
Here’s the other thread for perspective
luvflyin

Post in thread 'GVO VOR out of service, yet VOR 25 approach still being used'

  • Like
 
From the prospective of both a NOTAM issuer and NOTAM user, I have a few ideas.

One, stop using the NOTAM system as a legal CYA. 90% of the garbage NOTAMs have little to no impact to ACTUAL flight and/or safety, but are simply there because they are either CYA or legally required. What are you as a pilot going to do about a tower 4.5 NM from the airport 200 FT AGL lights OTS. Especially in areas like Iowa with over 6,000 wind turbines, a large percentage of which have obstruction lights out at any given time. I would also lump in all of the National Security NOTAMs that get tagged in every briefing that don't apply to 99% of flights.

Two, graphical NOTAMs. I'll admit this has been a goal of the NOTAM office, but is easier said than done given the unique layout of every airport in the country. Creating an automapping function is difficult, although the system is probably already 90% of the way there from what we see on the issuer side. It has been rolled out at some airports already. But instead of being a graphical NOTAM, I would propose making the Airport Diagram a dynamic living map, instead of a chart that gets updated every 56 days. The 56 day publication cycle is antiquated in today's modern online society. Let's face it, nearly everyone is using an online source for their flight planning, paper maps and books are virtually gone.

Three, better categorizing NOTAMs. Foreflight and other third party vendors are doing a pretty good job of this, but the FAA is way behind. Put the life safety critical NOTAMs at the top! An Airport or Runway closure should not be on page 3 after tower lights, etc.

I don't think all is lost, but most of these changes won't happen due to Federal bureaucracy and legal. No one is motivated to change the system, because they don't want the blame if an accident is somehow linked to the change.
 
For airport-specific, also consider ‘FNS NOTAM Search’ to Sort or Filter results by: aerodrome (RWY/TWY/APRON,etc), or by: procedure, obstacle, airspace, navaid.
For example, NOTAM rows for RWY (TWY) closures can be easily identified by: red-circled x icon.

1754667143969.png
Also a useful resource for airspace/airport-specific LTAs.
Tip: After Sign-In ... Filters, Sort and Other Preferences may be saved as default(s).
 
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I think the most straightforward thing they could do is better categorization so whatever software one is using can more effectively filter relevant info. Like for example maybe if I'm briefing for a flight at 5,000' AGL or more I don't need to know about everything within 1,000'AGL... like tower lights and UAVs. "Birds/wildlife in vicinity of airport" belongs in the chart supplement(and arguably is pointless as well since most airports have some degree of bird/wildlife activity).

I'd also like to see some limits on how long these things can be active. There's a huge NOTAMed area north of STL roughly centered on my home airport KUIN for high speed aircraft surface to 10,000' daily. It continually gets renewed, it's been there for literal years. I am fairly certain they do not fly daily, I don't even think weekly. It's effectively useless to pilots as we don't know when or where to look for traffic and since it's continual we've all gotten used to ignoring it.
 
My NOTAM focus is origin, destination, and any TFRs along my route. Everything else is secondary for the most part and I tailor my attention accordingly. A good EFB helps weed through the morass.
 
cowman said:
I think the most straightforward thing they could do is better categorization so whatever software one is using can more effectively filter relevant info. Like for example maybe if I'm briefing for a flight at 5,000' AGL or more I don't need to know about everything within 1,000'AGL... like tower lights and UAVs. "Birds/wildlife in vicinity of airport" belongs in the chart supplement(and arguably is pointless as well since most airports have some degree of bird/wildlife activity).

I'd also like to see some limits on how long these things can be active. There's a huge NOTAMed area north of STL roughly centered on my home airport KUIN for high speed aircraft surface to 10,000' daily. It continually gets renewed, it's been there for literal years. I am fairly certain they do not fly daily, I don't even think weekly. It's effectively useless to pilots as we don't know when or where to look for traffic and since it's continual we've all gotten used to ignoring it.
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I've never understood the wildlife activity NOTAMs. There isn't an airport in the world that doesn't have wildlife activity, and what value does that information provide a pilot? Are you not going to use that airport because of a wildlife NOTAM?

I know the area north of STL is commonly used for test flights for the F-15s and other fighters coming out of the factory there. I would agree though, instead of a perpetual NOTAM, just chart it and be done. That is supposed to be what happens, NOTAMs are for temporary changes to conditions. If it last more than 56 days (chart cycle), it should be charted and the NOTAM dropped.

One change made years ago was elimination of the UFN (Until Further Notice) NOTAMs. Now all NOTAMs have to have an expiration date, and I think we can't go more than 365 days. But that isn't to say we can't keep replacing it.
 
midwestpa24 said:
... Three, better categorizing NOTAMs. Foreflight and other third party vendors are doing a pretty good job of this, but the FAA is way behind. Put the life safety critical NOTAMs at the top! An Airport or Runway closure should not be on page 3 after tower lights, etc.
Click to expand...
cowman said:
I think the most straightforward thing they could do is better categorization so whatever software one is using can more effectively filter relevant info. Like for example maybe if I'm briefing for a flight at 5,000' AGL or more I don't need to know about everything within 1,000'AGL... like tower lights and UAVs...
Click to expand...
Agree! This is similar to what I meant above about prioritizing. But don't give us death by 1000 categories. Keep it simple with as few categories as possible.
 
The NOTAM system has become a means of transferring liability off of FAA, Airports, crane operators....remember you are responsible for all of it.

It's about the money, in addition to safety.

"Captain it's apparent you missed the NOTAM...."
 
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How about the TFR word salads? How much do I need to read through this thing to see if I can legally fly through it?
 
It's not just missing them in the noise, there are at times NOT issued at all.

We had a CTAF change at a field I use. I didn't catch it because there was no NOTAM for it. The closest was that there was a NOTAM for the PCL changing (but PCL doesn't necessarily equate to the CTAF). Further, when calling 1800VFRNOTRECOMMENDED and specifically asking for NOTAMs at the destination, I wasn't even given that one.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Solving this is actually fairly easy.

Display the NOTAMs in categories of type and severity/risk, instead of as a single list.

Seriously. It's that simple.
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not so fast. The definition of severity/risk depends on the intended operation. Not simple.
 
Allowing some sort if smart filtering would go a long way to being helpful. Obstructions > x high agl and >y distance from the airport for example. KFIN has an unlighted tower that's 1,200 agl and nearly impossible to see as it's not painted red/white either. That one I'd want to read. The 201 agl cell tower that lights don't work 3 miles from the airport, not so much.
 
Bob Noel said:
not so fast. The definition of severity/risk depends on the intended operation. Not simple.
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True, but that doesn't necessarily make it hard to do.
Category 1: stuff that directly impacts flight. Navaids out of service, GPS outages, airspace closures, IAPs N/A, FICON 1-3, approach lighting out of service, significant weather PIREPs like T-Storms, severe turbulence, wind shear, etc.
Category 2: stuff that may impact flight, or impacts indirectly. Parachuting ops, avgas or other services not available, etc.
Category 3: everything else.

For items that could go in more than 1 category, don't worry too much about it, just pick one. Even if it's not ideal it's better than what we have today. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good.
 
flyingron said:
It's not just missing them in the noise, there are at times NOT issued at all.

We had a CTAF change at a field I use. I didn't catch it because there was no NOTAM for it. The closest was that there was a NOTAM for the PCL changing (but PCL doesn't necessarily equate to the CTAF). Further, when calling 1800VFRNOTRECOMMENDED and specifically asking for NOTAMs at the destination, I wasn't even given that one.
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That’s like the time I wasn’t given info about an air show TFR that closed my destination airport at my planned arrival time because “it’s not presidential.”
 
MauleSkinner said:
That’s like the time I wasn’t given info about an air show TFR that closed my destination airport at my planned arrival time because “it’s not presidential.”
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Yah, and then there are sports event TFRs that don't even show up on the FAA's official TFR site.
"All available information" CFR 91.103 is the noose the FAA will use to hang you... <sigh>
 
MRC01 said:
Yah, and then there are sports event TFRs that don't even show up on the FAA's official TFR site.
"All available information" CFR 91.103 is the noose the FAA will use to hang you... <sigh>
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Also, how are you supposed to know if the game went into extra innings, overtime had a weather delay, etc. 1 hour before until 1 hour after. I'm supposed to know the game ended when??
 
EdFred said:
Also, how are you supposed to know if the game went into extra innings, overtime had a weather delay, etc. 1 hour before until 1 hour after. I'm supposed to know the game ended when??
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that's what the ADF was for... oh wait... nevermind
 
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