I love it when guys like you stop even arguing because you've lost so bad and then start in with the self-declerations of victory. Trolls are the same the internet over. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn!
Not good (FL crash)
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I love it when guys like you stop even arguing because you've lost so bad and then start in with the self-declerations of victory. Trolls are the same the internet over. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn!
Engine-out crash on a crowded beach, no injuries:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-beach-in-florida/
And you want to talk about "quite a few" people, look at this:
Yet nobody injured. B-b-b-but, how can that be?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-beach-in-florida/
And you want to talk about "quite a few" people, look at this:
Yet nobody injured. B-b-b-but, how can that be?
ClimbnSink
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Yeah man people drive drunk without killing anybody more often then not, therefore driving drunk should be as legal as crashing into a crowded beach.Engine-out crash on a crowded beach, no injuries:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-beach-in-florida/
And you want to talk about "quite a few" people, look at this:
Yet nobody injured. B-b-b-but, how can that be?
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Let me see if I got this straight.....some dude with an anonymous username is attacking another forum member for using an anonymous username?
BG305
Pre-takeoff checklist
The big problem with this crash is that people that are not related to GA where injured and killed. I have yet to see anyone post about the pilot who died last week on the south east side of Florida in a 172. He was by himself and injured no one but himself. The news report says that he nosed down and did not try and pull out of it.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/07/20/fire-officials-small-plane-crashes-near-elliott-key/
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/07/20/fire-officials-small-plane-crashes-near-elliott-key/
BG305
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Engine-out crash on a crowded beach, no injuries:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-beach-in-florida/
And you want to talk about "quite a few" people, look at this:
Yet nobody injured. B-b-b-but, how can that be?
Not even a bicycle injured
Brilliant, eh? I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering about that.
Yes! Pilots are like drunk drivers, killing innocent people everywhere! Ban all private aircraft! Stop them from killing us!!! [/sarcasm]
Seriously, do you guys listen to yourselves? The most ignorant reporter in the world couldn't trash GA as bad as some of you guys. Wow.
PaulS
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I saw maybe one or two of your examples where it said the beach was occupied. One was in a "drizzling rain" hardly beach weather, others were in off seasons. Those pilots were lucky, I'm sure they would tell you so.
I found it interesting in one of the stories where they say that generally when a plane has a problem, it's a banner plane, and they put it down in the ocean rather than on the beach. Why do you suppose that is?
I just found out that it was not just the two who were walking, but the whole family was walking, including the wife and another child, who were not injured. Four people were in that planes path.
These people don't deserve what happened to them. I've never said this guy should go to jail, although I will have much less sympathy for him if he ran the plane out of gas.
You keep up with the convoluted argument rather than acknowledging that these people should not have been hit by a GA plane and that putting a plane down on an occupied beach is very dangerous. Instead you post articles where some have cheated death and been successful and tell me nothing is wrong. I really hope you aren't flying over me.
Completely agreed. However, to see fellow pilots leading the charge to tar and feather the pilot is amazing. The fact is, this was an accident. We don't even know all the facts; yet for some to sit here and say "I would have done this, I would have done that..." - sure you would have. The airport is literally right on the beach. Engine out on takeoff, and we're all going to sit here and say what he should done? Shame on us as pilots.
JOhnH
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No, you weren't, but I stopped replying to him.
Completely and totally not true. Post which ones were not occupied/off-season.
All of these pilots were lucky.
My guess is because they're commercial operators with specialized training that taught them to do that. What's yours? The idea that just because a private pilot flies in the vicinity of a beach, or in this case takes off from a beachside airfield, should be versed in best practices for commercial operators flying in that environment every day is just laughable.
Wow, you mean you did some actual research before throwing a fellow pilot under the bus? How dignified of you.
Show me where I ever said:
1) these people SHOULD have been hit;
2) that putting a plane down on an occupied beach is NOT dangerous;
3) That nothing is wrong.
I'll save you the time, because I never said any of those things. Now are you done making stuff up and lying now? What a bunch of disingenuous nonsense.
What I've said is that an accident has happened, and before rushing to judgment and trashing a fellow pilot - which the public and the media will do just fine without our help - perhaps we should wait until the investigation is completed? How's that for convoluted?
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I'm learning that you made a wise decision.
thehulk06
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Thehulk06
Anonymous? Uh everyone knows who I am. I'm not hiding anything. This is jhernandez04 unlike mryan75.
ClimbnSink
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Same thing as crashing into the beach, a risk to the general public you can get away with most of the time. Sometimes drunk driving kills innocent people, only difference is no one defends drunks after an accident.
Edit: You are the one making GA look bad by defending this pilots actions. The pilots are more important then families walking on the beach angle doesn't play well. Glad google will find this thread.
SixPapaCharlie
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Oh no, I smell a ban-hammer and Hulk07 coming soon.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
I suppose it has something to do with the fact that it is sort of pointless for a banner plane to fly over an empty beach. I have flown hundreds of times over hundreds of miles of empty beach on the east coast of Florida. If there were visible people on the beach I would not put down there. But if my life were in danger, and the beach looked inviting (empty), you can bet your ass I would put down there. And that is the East Coast where we have great beaches. Beaches on the West Coast of Florida (South of the Panhandle) are mostly rocky wastelands.
thehulk06
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Oh well I'm a pro now. Too bad cause my post count was getting good on this username. I guess I'll have to anonymously Make another hulk username where no one knows me....
This is absolutely the funniest thing I have ever read in my life.
hy·poc·ri·sy
[hi-pok-ruh-see]
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
You posted the links, did you even read them????
Every one of your posts attempts to justify this guy hitting these people as a rational choice, an acceptable choice and an acceptable risk supposedly based on other people having successfully done it with out killing someone.
However these people were injured, one fatally, that pilot failed, period. He will pay for his mistake as he should, either via the criminal process if warranted, and/or most likely the civil process.
You can obfuscate, contort, twist however much you want, but you can't change the facts I just stated.
You argue for this pilot's honor, or what ever, but he killed someone , his actions resulted in a death and a serious injury and I see a problem with that. We can learn from that, or we can say hey, no problem, don't judge that guy, you can land on an occupied beach and most of the time you won't kill someone. That seems pretty dumb to me.
SixPapaCharlie
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HaHa
I am glad you wrote that I thought you were: Mr. Yan
I am glad you wrote that I thought you were: Mr. Yan
True, the only difference between willingly getting into a vehicle intoxicated and driving off and making every effort to safely land an airplane in an emergency is that no one defends the drunk after the accident. Now I'm convinced you don't listen to yourself.
Me, too, because everyone who finds it will also realize that I never said anything about the pilot being more important than the family on the beach and realize that your reading comprehension is that of a 6-year old.
I read the first line, which I knew would not contain a single instance of one of the links I posted being on an abandoned or off-season beach. Thanks for confirming that for us. I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of your gibberish, which is almost certainly a repost of the last bunch of gibberish.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
So against my own better judgment I just read this nonsense again. I'll note that in addition to not providing any evidence of your allegation of my links being unoccupied beaches, etc., I also asked you to show where I stated 3 specific things you alleged that I said. You showed none of them. So I will acknowledge that you admit you lied.
Moving on...
I haven't attempted to justify anything. Do you really not comprehend the sentence "we should wait until the investigation is complete before judging him"? I guess I didn't realize compound sentences would confuse you. For that I apologize.
The reason I posted the stories of other people having landed on occupied beaches successfully was to disprove your and others' allegation that landing on an occupied beach would result in death to someone on the beach 100% of the time. I'm correct, you're not. Get used to it.
Blah blah blah. Platitudes.
You're saying we can learn from that, yet YOU have judged this pilot without waiting for an investigation, something I've repeatedly said we should let play out. Not once have I said "no problem". Again, you apparently don't read what you write or listen to yourself, because you can't judge him and then say we can learn from this without knowing what happened. That's just nonsensical. You're attaching intent to a situation where you don't even know what happened. That seems pretty dumb to me.
For the last time, the media and the general public will do a fine job of tarring and feathering this pilot and all of us without our help. Or, more specifically, your help.
Moving on...
I haven't attempted to justify anything. Do you really not comprehend the sentence "we should wait until the investigation is complete before judging him"? I guess I didn't realize compound sentences would confuse you. For that I apologize.
The reason I posted the stories of other people having landed on occupied beaches successfully was to disprove your and others' allegation that landing on an occupied beach would result in death to someone on the beach 100% of the time. I'm correct, you're not. Get used to it.
Blah blah blah. Platitudes.
You're saying we can learn from that, yet YOU have judged this pilot without waiting for an investigation, something I've repeatedly said we should let play out. Not once have I said "no problem". Again, you apparently don't read what you write or listen to yourself, because you can't judge him and then say we can learn from this without knowing what happened. That's just nonsensical. You're attaching intent to a situation where you don't even know what happened. That seems pretty dumb to me.
For the last time, the media and the general public will do a fine job of tarring and feathering this pilot and all of us without our help. Or, more specifically, your help.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
So you read the first line of each article and figured they supported you, thanks for being honest, it explains a lot.
Ad hominem, look it up.
PaulS
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You're a troll.
If the media comes searching for dirt, they will find plenty in your posts.
For all the talking you're doing, you still haven't shown one instance where the beach was unoccupied or off-season. Interesting.
Don't need to, I studied Latin. If you're saying that me calling your post gibberish is an ad hominem, however, you need to look it up, because you obviously don't know what it means. You can stop embarrassing yourself at any point by just ceasing to post.
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Wow, up to 6 pages... but it all comes down to a DUMB ASS PILOT... who performed MANSLAUGHTER... now the jury has to decide, Voluntary manslaughter or Involuntary manslaughter and I'm going with VOLUNTARY, as he was PIC of an airplane that still had kinetic energy and could have nosed in and killed himself and passenger!!! As a plane did in a previous post!
I know you don't have any substantive responses. It's fine. I've asked you to substantiate several specific allegations you've made, and you've not substantiated any of them. Not much of a surprise.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Is mryan75 the accident pilot or the accident pilot's lawyer?
Have some more rope.
Have some more rope.Still waiting on an answer to this, Paul:
Show me where I ever said:
1) these people SHOULD have been hit;
2) that putting a plane down on an occupied beach is NOT dangerous;
3) That nothing is wrong.
Or you can just admit I never said any of those things and that you're a liar.
Show me where I ever said:
1) these people SHOULD have been hit;
2) that putting a plane down on an occupied beach is NOT dangerous;
3) That nothing is wrong.
Or you can just admit I never said any of those things and that you're a liar.
Is mryan75 the accident pilot or the accident pilot's lawyer?
True, it makes so much more sense to jump to conclusions without an investigation being conducted. If this was the pilot's fault we will find out when the investigation is complete. But listening to a bunch of pilots basically trashing GA without any knowledge of what happened is amazing. I'd expect to read some of this stuff of an local news website, not a pilot's website. Pretty incredible.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ad hominem in red, not directed at me, but still, an indication of what we are dealing with here.......
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Lol, I can't resist, so you think it may have been the dead gentleman's fault?
Jeffgis12b
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I spoke with my instructor today and he made some good points that could help me if I ever had to make a decision in a hurry - I hope I didn't get anything started with my original question as I was looking at this as an opportunity to learn. I am a new pilot just getting my PPL in June and only 92 hours total under my belt and try learn something everyday that will make me a better and safer pilot.
A couple things he mentioned was that being an instructor all these years he has seen students (and yes even some high hour IFR students) get stressed and not see something such a coyote or deer on the runway and had he not noticed and instructed a go around there could have been a wildlife strike. Basically he was saying when on the moment the father and his daughter could have just blended in due to the moment of stress * by no means am I comparing the life of an animal to the victims , just a comparison as to stress in the cockpit
We also talked that could the pilot have made a error in judgement as far as roll out thinking sand would stop him really fast and with it being hard packed it could have made stopping take more distance but by him trying to judge that with everything would have been a huge error and he doubt that was the cause.
Basically we went over different scenarios on what if ever in that situation could be done differently and regardless how many myself or even you guys come up with it was a huge tragedy that none of us can feel the pain in the fathers family nor could we feel the pain that pilot feels in his heart - all we as pilots can do is to due our best to learn from it and pray for all those involved (if you are a believer)
Just my thoughts , thanks to all you guys that have helped me along the way with questions
A couple things he mentioned was that being an instructor all these years he has seen students (and yes even some high hour IFR students) get stressed and not see something such a coyote or deer on the runway and had he not noticed and instructed a go around there could have been a wildlife strike. Basically he was saying when on the moment the father and his daughter could have just blended in due to the moment of stress * by no means am I comparing the life of an animal to the victims , just a comparison as to stress in the cockpit
We also talked that could the pilot have made a error in judgement as far as roll out thinking sand would stop him really fast and with it being hard packed it could have made stopping take more distance but by him trying to judge that with everything would have been a huge error and he doubt that was the cause.
Basically we went over different scenarios on what if ever in that situation could be done differently and regardless how many myself or even you guys come up with it was a huge tragedy that none of us can feel the pain in the fathers family nor could we feel the pain that pilot feels in his heart - all we as pilots can do is to due our best to learn from it and pray for all those involved (if you are a believer)
Just my thoughts , thanks to all you guys that have helped me along the way with questions
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ClimbnSink
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Greg
All bow down before the mighty investigation. Whose mighty investigation should we believe? The District Attorney's, NTSB, pilot's insurance company, or the dead guy's family lawyers? There is going to be a whole pile of investigations, and none of them are going to agree. 
Is mryan75 the accident pilot or the accident pilot's lawyer?
By the way, Paul, since you obviously don't know what an ad hominem is, the post above is a textbook ad homimen. A good rule of thumb is not to use terms you don't understand. Now that I've taught you some Latin and the other guy some English, I take my leave for the evening. Good night!
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
So you read into people posts, draw whatever conclusion beyond what they stated and write it out in your posts, but you get your panties in a wad when someone does it to you and call them a liar?
Number 1, never said you said that.
Number 2, you've posted many news articles where one would draw that conclusion, certainly reasonable, if it isn't so, then just state it, no need to resort to childish name calling.
Number 3, yep, I said that, you counter every time that landing on a beach is dangerous with your articles and rhetoric, so I, like you drew a conclusion. If you don't like it tell me why I'm wrong rather than pulling the little victim ploy.......
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
You aren't as smart as you think you are....... so you calling another poster a six year old because you don't like what he said is not an ad hominem, ok, sweet dreams.......