Not good (FL crash)

[thehulk06]

I asked the DPE who gave me my checkride.

Ex airforce Ex airline captain with 30,000+ hours what to do incase your engine goes out while flying near a Miami beach. Here's his exact response.....

"Hope you have a second motor - ok, I guess you mean single engine. Boy, I'd look for any place but the beach cause if you hit somebody you'll spend the rest of your life in court."

 

[thehulk06]

And how many full engine failures have you had?

I've had my engine quit one time while on long final due to an error faulty fuel guage and pilot error.

The engine was out for a full 7 seconds. Doesn't seem like much but I promise you when your at pattern altitude it's an eternity.

 

[N801BH]

Certain death? Jeez.

He didn't have to choose a water landing to avoid people. Judging from photos, the washout of the beach and the vegetation line are almost 100' away from where the aircraft came to rest. Putting in down there would have bent the aircraft but it certainly would have been survivable.

Making a successful off airport emergency landing is not cause for blind panic, it's time for some decision making and piloting.

I saw the exact same thing in those pictures..
The guy could have easily stuffed it in the ocean... Nothing East of there for 3400 miles where Europe is..... To the West is a large strip of beach grass..... Nobody goes in the grass except to relieve themselves or perform the (dirty deed)....:wink2:....

There is NO excuse why this pilot could not have picked either option......

Ps... I did see another poster said he was an engineer...... Those people usually cannot think outside the box..........

 

[mryan75]

Agreed. Don't put other people at risk because you're joy riding in a plane. Guess those in the plane felt entitled to that beach regardless of who was there.

This is a truly silly thing to say. The accident pilot didn't go flying with the intent of putting others' lives at risk. And we ALL go "joy riding" in airplanes. You're assuming he saw the people and intentionally disregarded their safety, two things you can't possibly know.

 

[thehulk06]

This is a truly silly thing to say. The accident pilot didn't go flying with the intent of putting others' lives at risk. And we ALL go "joy riding" in airplanes. You're assuming he saw the people and intentionally disregarded their safety, two things you can't possibly know.

Your wrong. I'm assuming he knows the Miami Beach has people on it during the summer (reasonable assumption) and that in landing on the beach he disregarded the safety of others in exchange for his. Obviously he was successful in saving his life and ending the life of an innocent beach goer.


Oh and welcome to the site first time poster.

 

[mryan75]

I asked the DPE who gave me my checkride.

Ex airforce Ex airline captain with 30,000+ hours what to do incase your engine goes out while flying near a Miami beach.

Quiz time: did this happen at Miami Beach? Or 233 miles away in Sarasota?

 

[mryan75]

Your wrong. I'm assuming he knows the Miami Beach has people on it during the summer (reasonable assumption) and that in landing on the beach he disregarded the safety of others in exchange for his. Obviously he was successful in saving his life and ending the life of an innocent beach goer.


Oh and welcome to the site first time poster.

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

 

[thehulk06]

Quiz time: did this happen at Miami Beach? Or 233 miles away in Sarasota?

Shoot, you got me on a technicality damn!

Quiz time, if there are two beaches with people on them. Which one has more people?

 

[thehulk06]

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

"You're" = "You are"...

Ahh, I see here. A normal poster on POA wants to talk trash to me but not with your real username. Haha.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

 

[mryan75]

Shoot, you got me on a technicality damn!

Quiz time, if there are two beaches with people on them. Which one has more people?

Location in this instance is hardly a technicality. Miami Beach has perhaps thousands of people on it on any given day. This was not Miami Beach. How do you know the accident pilot didn't have a mile of clear beach just beyond the gentleman he hit? On Miami Beach he certainly would not have. You're basically saying Manhattan, NY, and Manhattan, KS are the same. They're both cities, right? Here are a few pictures of Casperson Beach, where this happened:

Does that look like Miami Beach to you?

 

[thehulk06]

Location in this instance is hardly a technicality. Miami Beach has perhaps thousands of people on it on any given day. This was not Miami Beach. How do you know the accident pilot didn't have a mile of clear beach just beyond the gentleman he hit? On Miami Beach he certainly would not have. You're basically saying Manhattan, NY, and Manhattan, KS are the same. They're both cities, right? Here are a few pictures of Casperson Beach, where this happened:

Does that look like Miami Beach to you?

Listen bud you can post pictures to bolster your point all you want. I'm not going to argue with you because youRE not man enough to use your real username. Ttyl

 

[mryan75]

Listen bud you can post pictures to bolster your point all you want. I'm not going to argue with you because youRE not man enough to use your real username. Ttyl

It's ok, run away instead of trying to answer.

vs...

I can hardly tell the difference myself.

 

[N801BH]

It's ok, run away instead of trying to answer.

vs...

I can hardly tell the difference myself.

\Great pics..................

Which paints the perfect picure of why the pilot should have put it in the drink,,,, DUH.........

 

[PaulS]

Location in this instance is hardly a technicality. Miami Beach has perhaps thousands of people on it on any given day. This was not Miami Beach. How do you know the accident pilot didn't have a mile of clear beach just beyond the gentleman he hit? On Miami Beach he certainly would not have. You're basically saying Manhattan, NY, and Manhattan, KS are the same. They're both cities, right? Here are a few pictures of Casperson Beach, where this happened:

Does that look like Miami Beach to you?

These pictures look like someone on the beach will die if you try to land an airplane there.

 

[thehulk06]

The real question is who is this new member mryan75 and why does he hide is true identity?

 

[mryan75]

The real question is who is this new member mryan75 and why does he hide is true identity?

That's a good question, thehulk06. Really odd name your parents gave you. And it's good to see you surrender on the actual issue at hand. I appreciate a guy who can admit when he's a complete buffoon.

 

[mryan75]

\Great pics..................

Which paints the perfect picure of why the pilot should have put it in the drink,,,, DUH.........

How about at this beach?

Because that's the same beach.

 

[mryan75]

These pictures look like someone on the beach will die if you try to land an airplane there.

You're saying unequivocally that there's a 100% chance that if someone tried to land a Cherokee on that beach that someone on the beach would die?

 

[dell30rb]

He killed a man with his plane. Yea, I'll stand by that even if no one else will. I'm really that disgusted by the way this turned out. He stepped on someone's life so he could live, at least that's how I see it.

Of course I'm out spoken and say what I think, rare in these parts that someone doesn't try to he politically correct....

I seem to remember you getting really defensive about 'backseat' pilots in the thread about you flying a Cherokee into freezing rain.

You continually suggest this was more than an accident, but a criminal act on the part of the pilot who apparently has no qualms sacrificing the lives of others to save himself. But, you weren't there...

See where i'm going with this.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Pictures are nice, but were they taken at 2:45 on a sunny Sunday afternoon?

 

[mryan75]

Pictures are nice, but were they taken at 2:45 on a sunny Sunday afternoon?

The fact of the matter is, none of us knows how many people were on that beach the day this happened. My only point in posting the pictures was to point out the error of his ways to our logically-challenged friend who said the difference between this beach and Miami Beach was a "technicality." He's literally said the pilot is guilty of manslaughter. The fact is, none of us have any idea, really, what happened. It's possible that the beach was full and that this was a completely reckless and callous act; it's also possible this guy and his family were the only people within 1 mile of where this happened and it was just inches from being a non-event.

 

[mryan75]

Here's a picture taken by a bystander the day it happened. That's the pilot and passenger standing by the plane.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If this guy and his family were the only ones within 1 mile the pilot sucks worse then previously thought. Go read the comments section, the general public agrees with the Hulk, the pilot is a killer. And you tools aren't making GA any brownie points.

 

[mryan75]

If this guy and his family were the only ones within 1 mile the pilot sucks worse then previously thought. Go read the comments section, the general public agrees with the Hulk, the pilot is a killer. And you tools aren't making GA any brownie points.

I wouldn't expect the general public to think anything less. A pilot with half a brain, perhaps, but it looks like that is even too much to ask.

 

[PaulS]

You're saying unequivocally that there's a 100% chance that if someone tried to land a Cherokee on that beach that someone on the beach would die?

I'm saying that the risk is too high on that beach, or even a beach with 1/4 that many people. Without passing judgment what this guy did, I think any reasonable pilot, based on the outcome of this incident, would conclude that landing on a beach where there may be any number of people is a bad idea and should be avoided out of basic concern for fellow humans who do not want to share in the risk, or be put at risk by our endeavor.

 

[PaulS]

Here's a picture taken by a bystander the day it happened. That's the pilot and passenger standing by the plane.

There were quite a few people on the beach that day......

 

[mryan75]

I'm saying that the risk is too high on that beach, or even a beach with 1/4 that many people. Without passing judgment what this guy did, I think any reasonable pilot, based on the outcome of this incident, would conclude that landing on a beach where there may be any number of people is a bad idea and should be avoided out of basic concern for fellow humans who do not want to share in the risk, or be put at risk by our endeavor.

Actually you did pass judgment on what this guy did. More interesting reading:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story...-emergency-landing-beach-near-lewes/12118475/

Hundreds of people were on the beach at the time, but the fact that nobody, including the two onboard the aircraft were injured, has the Civil Aviation Authority impressed with his piloting skills.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11184407

 

[mryan75]

There were quite a few people on the beach that day......

"Quite a few" - that's a very precise analysis. I would think that if there had been "quite a few" people on the beach that day and landing on a beach with "quite a few" people on it presented a grave risk to people on the beach, that he would have hit "quite a few" people. Is two "quite a few"?

 

[thehulk06]

"Quite a few" - that's a very precise analysis. I would think that if there had been "quite a few" people on the beach that day and landing on a beach with "quite a few" people on it presented a grave risk to people on the beach, that he would have hit "quite a few" people. Is two "quite a few"?

You're not real bright. If there wasn't quite a few people on the beach and he hit one of the only people on the beach then the pilot most definitely is negligent. Duh

How the hell do you hit the only people on the beach?....

 

[Hawker800]

Many of the FAR's were written to protect people on the ground from us. It didn't work this time.

 

[PaulS]

Actually you did pass judgment on what this guy did. More interesting reading:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story...-emergency-landing-beach-near-lewes/12118475/



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11184407

Yes, I suppose I did pass judgment, imagine what a jury is going to do.

 

[mryan75]

"Quite a few" people on this beach, too:

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/news/single-engine-plane-lands-on-north-end-beach/nMGqt/

Engine-out landing, nobody injured.

Twin down on Palm Beach:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/plane-down-on-palm-beach-pilot-uninjured/nL3c6/

Fuel exhaustion, both engines. Nobody injured.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20120130X60836&key=1

Another engine-out beach landing, no injuries:

http://kathrynaviationnews.com/?p=23650

Engine-out, no injuries:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...r-their-sputtering-plane-lands-atlantic-beach

Another:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-07-10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-darwin-beach/899868

This is getting easy:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-28429059

Heck, this one there were people everywhere - no injuries:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/06/10/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-beach-in-florida/

So obviously the notion that it's not possible to safely land an airplane on an occupied beach without causing injury to those on the ground is just not true. There was a fatality here and that's a tragedy; but before sending the pilot off to the big house for 15-to-life, perhaps we should allow the investigation to continue?

 

[mryan75]

You're not real bright

Hey, your English is improving! Congratulations. Glad I could help.

 

[mryan75]

Yes, I suppose I did pass judgment, imagine what a jury is going to do.

Again, I expect a lot more of fellow pilots than I do of the general public. Although that expectation is being proven unfounded.

 

[BG305]

Good news folks- we can do away with our whole criminal justice system and due process! We've got a one man internet legal show right here!

This is America isn't it? Guilty until proven innocent? That's how it works, you get arrested for a crime you might or might not have committed. If you don't have bail $$$ you stay in jail till your trail and you can prove your innocence.

 

[PaulS]

"Quite a few" - that's a very precise analysis. I would think that if there had been "quite a few" people on the beach that day and landing on a beach with "quite a few" people on it presented a grave risk to people on the beach, that he would have hit "quite a few" people. Is two "quite a few"?

It sounds like you are more than willing to risk those people on the beach to save your own skin, that is telling.



I have no idea what was going through this guy's head, maybe he didn't see any people on the beach, maybe he was so consumed with fear he saw nothing, maybe he had his eyes glued to the AI and airspeed, who knows, the bottom line though is an innocent man died, an innocent girl is maimed, both were minding their own business and had their lives ruined by a guy in an airplane, an airplane that was under control as evidenced by an otherwise safe landing. That you keep arguing that it is ok to put a plane down on a beach with people on it in light of this is concerning and doesn't bode will for GA if that is more than a small minority attitude.

 

[thehulk06]

mryan75 you're getting owned. Stop the bleeding and quit posting. Go back to using your real username. Pwnt

 

[BG305]

Your wrong. I'm assuming he knows the Miami Beach has people on it during the summer (reasonable assumption) and that in landing on the beach he disregarded the safety of others in exchange for his. Obviously he was successful in saving his life and ending the life of an innocent beach goer.


Oh and welcome to the site first time poster.

This did NOT even happen on the east coast of Florida buddy. So forget about south beach or any thing close to Miami. This is on the south west coast of Florida where older people and families go to vacation. I'm not sure on the pilots thought on the way down but he might have chosen the beach thinking the water was deep. I grew up in south Florida the gulf coast waters are actually very shallow compared to the Atlantic side(east).

 

[mryan75]

It sounds like you are more than willing to risk those people on the beach to save your own skin, that is telling.

Obviously you don't comprehend what you read, which is also telling. There have been plenty of safe landings during engine-outs on occupied beaches. We have no idea what happened here, only the end result. And yet you're throwing this pilot to the lions before there's even an investigation. And you're criticizing me?

I have no idea what was going through this guy's head, maybe he didn't see any people on the beach, maybe he was so consumed with fear he saw nothing, maybe he had his eyes glued to the AI and airspeed, who knows, the bottom line...

..is that he's guilty of manslaughter and all pilots are killers! Down with rich people and their private planes! [/sarcasm]

...though is an innocent man died, an innocent girl is maimed, both were minding their own business and had their lives ruined by a guy in an airplane, an airplane that was under control as evidenced by an otherwise safe landing. That you keep arguing that it is ok to put a plane down on a beach with people on it in light of this is concerning and doesn't bode will for GA if that is more than a small minority attitude.

Yes, we'll ignore all the safe landings on occupied beaches and declare all pilots a menace to the general public. Makes perfect sense. Why do we need the media and the ignorant public when we have pilots like you?