no certificate with me.

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by Unregistered, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Hypothetically speaking let's say I go out to the airport on a whim. Borrow a headset and current sectional and go flying. My bad luck an inspector at my destination. Asks for my certificate and medical. But obviously they're at home a couple hundred miles away. What happens? Can I show I have it later may like you can do if you get pulled over by the police?
     
  2. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    Fake a heart attack. duh.
     
  3. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    Give him your certificate number. He can verify it in the database. Go online and request a fax from airman records to prove your certs and fly home.

    The inspector will remind you to make sure you have them next time.
     
  4. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't know many places that will rent you their aircraft,without showing the certs
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  5. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    EVERY time?
     
  6. kkoran

    kkoran Cleared for Takeoff

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    Not obvious--most pilots carry their certificates in their wallets.
     
  7. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I've had them change management and not ask for new stuff or check out. 'Yep, you're still good with us'
     
  8. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I carry scans of all my licenses in my iPhone, just in case.

    Probably not 100% legal, but better than nothing.

    Like others, mine are in my wallet at all times.
     
  9. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I do basically the same thing, I have photos off all my important documents, and nobody ever really has a problem with that, just flip it up on the phone or iPad. It seems to be the way most people carry their proof if insurance for their car.
     
  10. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Punch the inspector in the face, run away and hide. Works every time with the FAA, they don't have those mean dogs the regular police use when you try this trick after getting pulled over without a license. Dog bites hurt.
     
  11. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    My medical and certificate stay in my flight bag, not in my wallet. My wallet is plenty full already... two driver's licenses (US and UAE), transport passes for Prague and Dubai and lots of other junk. I always have my flight bag when I fly so the cert and medical live there.
     
  12. bullwinkle

    bullwinkle Pattern Altitude

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    But...how do you impress chicks at bars? Do you take your flight bag out with you? :confused: :dunno:
     
  13. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Jump in the FBO golf cart and take off, no way any of those fat old ASIs are going to catch a golf cart :rofl:
     
  14. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

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    Be sure the battery isn't dead.

    Nevermind, he still wouldn't catch you.
     
  15. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I realize you're joking, but for the record, the ASI who did my one and only ramp check (about two years ago) was not fat.
     
  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Generally true but just for the sake of completeness, it could lead to a minimal civil penalty. Not likely unless either you or the inspector is a jerk.
     
  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I took a swing at the FAA administrator once, but she ducked so it ended well.
     
  18. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    At worse, a letter of correction. Since one can go to https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/amsrvs/Logon.asp and request verification of certificates and get a fax stating such, they can continue on using this fax.

    Also, the Inspector can look into the database and confirm all certificate information. Even most airlines now have in OpSpecs missing certificate procedures.
     
  19. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I never get asked to show my certificate or medical before i rent
     
  20. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I mentioned it because that's what the Sanction Guidance Table says. Of course, something less (or nothing) is always an option.
     
  21. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    Would you even need to take a swing? What's the penalty for ignoring an ASI and going about your business like he wasn't even there? What's he gonna do, give you a paper cut? He has no idea who you are, and no idea how to find you once you leave. I'd also bet nobody is going to pay him overtime to camp on the plane's wing waiting for your return. Whoever the owner of the plane is may get a letter, which will look nice in the wastebasket upon receipt.

    Theory only. Haven't had occasion or reason to employ such a tactic. :D

    :dunno:
     
  22. Rigged4Flight

    Rigged4Flight Cleared for Takeoff

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    :rofl: I love you! (no homo) (apologies to Mrs.6PC)
     
  23. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    I realize some here think the FAA is structured like the Air Force, and if the sanction table says do it, then it's done to the letter, no questions asked.

    (And before someone jumps in and starts regurgitating case law, we are talking about a first time offense of just not having the certificates in possession while exercising privileges.)

    Reality: In the table in Order 2150.3B it sates:

    Even using the EDP as a guide, it would be hard if not to even get a SNAAP out of this.
     
  24. JeffDG

    JeffDG Touchdown! Greaser!

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    First off, make sure the inspector proves to you that they have the right to see your certificates. Make a point of saying that you must show them to the Administrator, and unless it is actually the Administrator in front of you, they need to prove that they have appropriate delegated authority, in writing (originals only, no copies).

    Next, make sure you loudly and clearly announce your right to remain silent. If he asks you if you're having a good day, refuse to answer.

    Every few seconds ask the inspector "AM I BEING DETAINED." This should become louder and more insistent with each repetition.

    :D
     
  25. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    Yea, let us know how that woks out for ya.....;)
     
  26. JeffDG

    JeffDG Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't answer questions. :D
     
  27. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I would imagine they would tag the plane and turn you into the owner's problem as a minimum. I can think of plenty of ways he can get your info up to and including getting the plane printed.
     
  28. VWGhiaBob

    VWGhiaBob Line Up and Wait

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    Get a Dropbox account (free) www.dropbox.com. Scan and post it there. I put my medical, license, airworthiness, airplane registration, insurance, and endorsements (e.g., high performance) there. You can access from any PC or mobile device.

    You're still supposed to have all these, but better to have something than nothing!
     
  29. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    The guy out of Milwaukee was in shape.
     
  30. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    And some people wonder why they have problems with authorities...:rofl::rofl:;)
     
  31. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    Would an ASI have access to fingerprint databases to do that?
     
  32. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    Yes..
     
  33. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    That may take a while, and may not let you fly right home if it's not office hours in Oklahoma City. OTOH, you can immediately download a letter from the Airman Registry that will serve as a substitute for your pilot/flight instructor/medical certificates until a new set can be ordered and delivered.

    Just go to this web page, select "Request Temporary Authority," log in, and you can get an immediate email of a .pdf copy of a letter which looks like this:
    ...which you can print and present. According to AFS-810, this provides legal, temporary authority to fly (see "other documentation acceptable to the FAA") if you don't have your original certificates with you. There is not currently any specific guidance to field Inspectors about this, but it's on AFS-810's list of things to do, and any Inspector with questions should know how to contact AFS-810 for further guidance.​

    So, if you have a computer and internet access, you can instantly have a valid document to cover the 61.3 requirement for pilot, flight instructor, and medical certificates in the event you left your wallet in your other pocket, or your dog ate your medical, or whatever. Just don't let your dog near your wallet more than once every six months.​
     
  34. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    The Inspector has a number of options, up to and including requesting immediate assistance from local law enforcement -- think Patriot Act and terrorism issues if someone tries to run from an FAA Inspector who requests his/her certificates. And even if they don't catch you then and there, the record suggests the FAA is very successful in getting the aircraft owner to identify the person who was using the plane. At that point, what might have been just counseling or a Letter of Correction could turn into a significant suspension or even an Emergency Revocation.

    Remember that Martha Stewart went to jail not for the things she'd done, but rather for lying to the Feds about the things she'd done which were themselves legal, and she'd have had no Federal issues if she'd just told the truth. The Feds just don't cotton much to people who lie to them or try to evade them, and they have the tools to punish you for lying or evading even if you weren't doing anything wrong before you lied to or evaded them. Seems downright silly to turn a minor ticking-off into a significant enforcement action or even a criminal conviction, but that's what Martha did, and it would be dumb for a pilot to pull a similar move.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  35. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    Interesting. Thanks. :)

    Note to self: if I ever want to go "all-in" and be a d-bag to an ASI.. wear gloves. :D
     
  36. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    :rofl:
     
  37. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    When he calls the FBI about suspicious activity there will be microscopes that find their way straight up your ass.
     
  38. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I really haven't noticed anyone in this thread saying that
    And so when I said
    it's different from what you just said because....?

    Or is it disagreement for the sake of disagreement?
     
  39. Ghery

    Ghery Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've never been asked to show mine when I've rented. WA, WY and HI.
     
  40. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    I was about to be ramp checked at the home drome after refueling. He said he would meet me inside, I said alright. As I was preparing to enter the FBO, another pilot cut me off and forced himself through the door first (was real noticeable). The FAA guy watched the whole thing and converted it to ramp checking "my new friend" rather than me:lol: