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luvflyin

luvflyin

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Can a pilot and a CFI who aren’t current, go up together and get current? Or does one or the other of them have to be considered a passenger?
 
Last edited:
If you hold a PPL and are not current, you can't carry a passenger.
If you are a CFI and are not current, you can't carry a passenger.
So, no. They can't fly together.
 
Shepherd said:
If you hold a PPL and are not current, you can't carry a passenger.
If you are a CFI and are not current, you can't carry a passenger.
So, no. They can't fly together.
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Except that the instructor isn’t considered a passenger in this case, so he can give instruction while the other pilot gets current.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Except that the instructor isn’t considered a passenger in this case, so he can give instruction while the other pilot gets current.
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Ok. So once I do my 3, can he do his? Does my status as ‘getting dual’ make me not a passenger? Or does he just get to count my 3?
 
A CFI does not need to be passenger current to have a student in the airplane. He does if there is an aftual passenger. But when instruction is being given they are both considered crew and pax currency doesn't apply.
 
I’m sure this was covered before, but I can’t be arsed to look it up.

Legal Interpretation Kortokrax - (2006) CFI is not a passenger

We agree that, for purposes of section 61.57(b), an authorized instructor providing instruction in an aircraft is not considered a passenger with respect to the person receiving instruction, even where the person receiving the instruction is acting as PIC. (The instructor must be current, qualified to instruct, and hold a category, class and type rating in the aircraft, if a class and type rating is required.) The instructor is not a passenger because he is present specifically to train the person receiving instruction. Neither is the person receiving instruction a passenger with respect to the instructor. This training may take place, even though neither pilot has met the 61.57(b) requirements.
 
luvflyin said:
Ok. So once I do my 3, can he do his? Does my status as ‘getting dual’ make me not a passenger? Or does he just get to count my 3?
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Have him demonstrate a few so you understand better how to do it. ;)

Technically, once you get your three, you can act as PIC while he does his three.

he isn’t “sole manipulator of the flight controls” for your three, so they don’t count for him.
 
Yes because of the Chief Counsel opinion (two, actually) @JScarry referenced.
EdFred said:
A CFI does not need to be passenger current to have a student in the airplane. He does if there is an aftual passenger. But when instruction is being given they are both considered crew and pax currency doesn't apply.
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not "because. The interpretation applies even to student pilots. Student pilots are not and can't be "required crew." Much more straightforward to simply say that neither the instructor nor the trainee are considered to be passengers on an instructional flight, so the passenger currency rule does not apply.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yes because of the Chief Counsel opinion (two, actually) @JScarry referenced.
not "because. The interpretation applies even to student pilots. Student pilots are not and can't be "required crew." Much more straightforward to simply say that neither the instructor nor the trainee are considered to be passengers on an instructional flight, so the passenger currency rule does not apply.
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Arent we all students when receiving instruction? ;)

Yes I did not mean exclusively pre-private/rec/sport when i referred to student. I even refer to people I give flight reviews to as students since I am giving instruction.
 
EdFred said:
A CFI does not need to be passenger current to have a student in the airplane. He does if there is an aftual passenger. But when instruction is being given they are both considered crew and pax currency doesn't apply.
Click to expand...

What if the passenger is in the front and not sitting aft?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Have him demonstrate a few so you understand better how to do it. ;)

Technically, once you get your three, you can act as PIC while he does his three.

he isn’t “sole manipulator of the flight controls” for your three, so they don’t count for him.
Click to expand...

Ah. Got it. Posts above seem to confirm that. Question answered. But we’re way short of the desired 3 pages:devil:. So now we gotsta log it.
 
well, it shouldn't be too hard to get a lot more replies...
 
luvflyin said:
How would you log it? As the pilot and as the CFI. One post each
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Are you required to log solo time?

IIRC, the answer is no.

So I would just log the PIC time to establish currency
 
EdFred said:
Arent we all students when receiving instruction? ;)

Yes I did not mean exclusively pre-private/rec/sport when i referred to student. I even refer to people I give flight reviews to as students since I am giving instruction.
Click to expand...
So do I. Just pointing out that "they are required crew" is not the rationale for the rule.
 
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