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Persistence =/= evidence of being right.

Hammurabi's code existed nearly 2000 years before the establishment of Christianity.

Human society has pretty much established for a long time that murder and stealing are wrong. They didn't need Christ or Mohammed to tell them that.

I am waiting for the thread to be locked. So I'm trying to stay out of this. And I'm failing miserably because I like bringing the light of reason into the dark morass of ignorance.

But this is my last post in this thread. For real this time. LoL
 
Cooter143 said:
Monkeys don't kill each other?
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Not as a general rule, no. Otherwise the species won't survive. It's kind'a instinctive in all species.


Cooter143 said:
If the church doesn't, who does? You can try to be funny and avoid the question, but I want to know who decides what is right and decent?
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Even the most godless regimes in history through the world had laws about murder and theft. LONG before the Church existed.
 
ircphoenix said:
Persistence =/= evidence of being right.

Hammurabi's code existed nearly 2000 years before the establishment of Christianity.

Human society has pretty much established for a long time that murder and stealing are wrong. They didn't need Christ or Mohammed to tell them that.

I am waiting for the thread to be locked. So I'm trying to stay out of this. And I'm failing miserably because I like bringing the light of reason into the dark morass of ignorance.

But this is my last post in this thread. For real this time. LoL
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Unfortunately I think the dark morass may have engulfed you, I hope not. One need look no further than burning man this year to see the folly and devolution of mankind left to his own devices and version of morality .
 
Everskyward said:
But despite my attempt to cut his fishing line, he reeled in a big catch...
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I was ok with the OPs humor. It's the misrepresentation and absurd attempts at declaring victory over moral high ground that got me involved.
 
deonb said:
Not as a general rule, no. Otherwise the species won't survive. It's kind'a instinctive in all species.
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But the answer to my question is yes. They do, and his point was silly.

Even the most godless regimes in history through the world had laws about murder and theft. LONG before the Church existed.
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You didn't answer the question, many cultures have celebrated murder. Cultures differ, so who decides which one is right?
 
ircphoenix said:
Persistence =/= evidence of being right.

Hammurabi's code existed nearly 2000 years before the establishment of Christianity.

Human society has pretty much established for a long time that murder and stealing are wrong. They didn't need Christ or Mohammed to tell them that.

I am waiting for the thread to be locked. So I'm trying to stay out of this. And I'm failing miserably because I like bringing the light of reason into the dark morass of ignorance.

But this is my last post in this thread. For real this time. LoL
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Your reason is what is failing you. My persistence is simply to show you that you aren't making sense.

If it is so established, why is there still murder? BTW, you are wrong about Hammurabi predating Christianity. But I sense that my work here is done, so with that, I'm out! :cheers:
 
Cooter143 said:
Your reason is what is failing you. My persistence is simply to show you that you aren't making sense.

If it is so established, why is there still murder? BTW, you are wrong about Hammurabi predating Christianity. But I sense that my work here is done, so with that, I'm out! :cheers:
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I thought you were going to make further replies by PM. :rolleyes2:
 
Cooter143 said:
You didn't answer the question, many cultures have celebrated murder. Cultures differ, so who decides which one is right?
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Tempted as that might be... I'm bowing out of the thread as well.
 
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ircphoenix said:
I'd agree that the bad is perpetrated by individuals. That's true for all religions. I don't think Catholicism is inherently bad. Nor do I think Islam is inherently bad. I just think people of Christian faiths in this country have a relatively myopic view of the world's many religions. There's a propensity here to diminish the good that those other religions have done in their respective regions.

If you're talking about the Crusades, you're talking between 1 million and 3 million people killed, which, at the time, represented 1% of the WORLD'S population. The equivalent now would be what... 74 million?

You can't go anywhere in the Muslim world and not be more than 25 miles from an Islamic institution that helps or educates people and betters their lives. You can ignore that to make yourself feel better about what you say, or you can be honest.
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You obviously aren't a student of history or Islam. Go compare and contrast the founder of Christianity with the founder of Islam and see what you come up with. As for the Crusades, they were a response to a few hundred years of Islamic Crusades that had been overrunning and brutalizing Europe. I'm amazed it took that long for the west to respond.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm waiting to see if people can simply exit the discussion without the necessity of closing the thread...
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How long are you prepared to wait? Do you need a re-supply of provisions or are you well stocked?
 
I think it's interesting that all the filthy talk about picking up quarters goes without mention. No talk of moderators shutting it down then. But as soon as some of the nonsense is challenged, everyone is up in arms. You can describe lewd sex acts and ridicule people held in high regard in the Catholic Church (even make obscene statements about her), but challenge some illogical statements and go against the flow and all the sudden the conversation is embarrassing and needs shut down. It appears that real discussion is to be avoided in the interest of preserving the adolescent locker room atmosphere.
 
Cooter143 said:
It appears that real discussion is to be avoided in the interest of preserving the adolescent locker room atmosphere.
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Perhaps it is simply your perception of what a "real discussion" consists of is to be avoided. In this case folks are mixing politics with religion and then arguing morals. That certainly isn't a real discussion.
 
Im a disciple of Rodney's Church of
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founded 1992, IRS tax exempt status pending..... :D
 
Clark1961 said:
Perhaps it is simply your perception of what a "real discussion" consists of is to be avoided. In this case folks are mixing politics with religion and then arguing morals. That certainly isn't a real discussion.
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I'm sure we all view it differently. I think a good discussion is one that moves towards the truth and exposes falsehoods that serve as distractions. I don't agree with a lot of the silly talk that goes on here, but I don't really care. To each his own in that regard. But when statements are made that are plainly wrong(factually wrong), I think it is good good to discuss it. That's why I invited PMs. I'm happy to defend any point I made, as I believe it to be objectively true.
 
Cooter143 said:
I think it's interesting that all the filthy talk about picking up quarters goes without mention. No talk of moderators shutting it down then. But as soon as some of the nonsense is challenged, everyone is up in arms. You can describe lewd sex acts and ridicule people held in high regard in the Catholic Church (even make obscene statements about her), but challenge some illogical statements and go against the flow and all the sudden the conversation is embarrassing and needs shut down. It appears that real discussion is to be avoided in the interest of preserving the adolescent locker room atmosphere.
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Cooter, I think you missed the spin zone era where discussions like this would continue for months in an area where people were supposedly not allowed unless they have thick skins, unfortunately the thin skinned were attracted like flies to honey and would cry and moan when they were unable to extricate themselves and eventually raised so much ruckus that the powers that be killed the spin zone and strongly discourage threads like this.

Anyway, this has nowhere to go but lock down as most of the players now here will likely turn it back, but others who stumble upon this later on will miss the nuance to let it die and fire it up again. I find that some of the ones who like to ridicule the church seems to have the thinnest skin, just my observation.
 
PaulS said:
Cooter, I think you missed the spin zone era where discussions like this would continue for months in an area where people were supposedly not allowed unless they have thick skins
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Bring back the Spin Zone! I think I would have enjoyed it. Some of these discussions are difficult in this format, but a lot of what is posted are attempts to divert the discussion and confuse the line of thinking. For the record, I've often invited PMs on discussions along these lines and I've only ever had one response. And that one didn't last long.
 
deonb said:
The doctors were promised that it would remain a secular institution. Even the web site still says today that they're secular.

It was't until a year or so later that it was obvious that it wouldn't. You know how these things goes - nobody ever says they would fire a doctor who talk about stuff. The chief of medicine advises it, then doctor complaints about him to HR fall on death ears, and then they slowly realize they either have to fall in line if they ever want to get promoted again, or get out.

And I don't think it was sold so much as being a takeover. They were taken over by a hospital that was many orders of magnitude bigger that wanted to grow rapidly into the state. Probably made the board an offer they couldn't refuse.
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It either was a sale or it was a takeover, they're very different things, legally and ethically. You know this. BoDs can refuse offers. Even big ones.

People being told things are all going to be the same, while their bosses and owners pull the rip cord on their golden parachutes...Sounds familiar too. Nothing new there.

Seen that now what, about 12 times if you count the ones that actually were benign. The worst one "only" caused one suicide. I think that's the day the fun wore off of that particular start-up for most of us.

Like I said, I'm surprised docs fell for it. They usually catch on to patterns like that in the world. They're the bright kids on the playground. Frankly I doubt they did, they were just marking time to see how far their personal ethics would be pushed vs their other goals.

Blaming the buyer leaves out the responsibility of those who choose to sell, and what they tell the staff to get them to stick around while they abandon ship to "spend more time with family", while the handover ceremonial band is playing, and can't look anyone in the eye anymore.
 
Everskyward said:
It was nonsense and trolling from the beginning.
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Actually it was just a pun that brought together two events occurring at around the same time, the beginning of the NFL season and the sainthood thing. I guess humor eludes some.
 
Well, it won't hurt MUCH. ;)
 
PaulS said:
And look who tries to stoke the fire with another troll, aren't you one of the biggest complainers about these types of threads?
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He's also incapable of handling any pushback. He sneaks a jab in, then complains when you respond and puts you on his ignore list. It's very childish.
 
PaulS said:
And look who tries to stoke the fire with another troll, aren't you one of the biggest complainers about these types of threads?
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And look who feels he needs to rush in again and defend the "almighty". o_O Give it a break.
 
Keep plugging away Tim. I'm sure your goal is to get it deleted so that all the evidence will be removed. Athiest don't have real answers so they name call and use childish humor as a cover.

Mods, I request that the thread be locked not deleted.
 
Cooter said:
and puts you on his ignore list.
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I've checked out ALL the posts in this thread, both the ignored and unignored folks. And it confirmed to me that I have the right ones on ignore!
 
Keep it open, let the mental midgets post and show their true color. I hope the mods note who is stirring this up and duly ignore when they get their panties in a wad and complain in other threads.
 
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