New Information On MH 370

Art VanDelay said:
777-200 and I actually FLY the aircraft not just stand around and watch. AND THERE IS NO MAGIC ULTRA SECRET ELT BUTTON !!!!! But hey, keep it up Josey it's really starting to get entertaining !!! What else do you have for us ? I almost can't wait to hear.
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Yes! An operator vs. engineer ****ing match. This almost always turns out the same for those without the hands-on experience, at least in my industry.
 
greddawn said:
Yes! An operator vs. engineer ****ing match. This almost always turns out the same for those without the hands-on experience, at least in my industry.
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Operator vs. fake engineer.

As a frequent participant in operator vs. designer discussions, they go very, very differently from this. I see my operators as the system's front line, and they are by far the best sources of real information about how it works and what problems it has, in detail.
 
Silvaire said:
As I said earlier ELT's were mandated by Congress after two of their members disappeared on a flight in Alaska in 1972 and were never found.
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I thought it was just ONE congresscritter (Hale Boggs) a male friend, and a couple of ... umm ... female guides (if you follow my drift).

Boggs' widow ran for and got his old congress seat and vowed that no widder lady would have to again wait for 7 years to claim the life insurance, hence the ELT.

Jim
 
Sleepingsquirrel said:
I was in the submarine service, and I agree it's never as easy as a Hollywood script. Considering the time of year and that the surface searches are already being hampered by sea states and surface conditions, I think a submarine has the best chance of locating the man made noise maker (whatever its characteristics) before it dies.
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My thought as well. Running a top end attack sub down the plane's course line below the thermocline will give the best chance of finding the pingers.
 
Since the MH370 search is over now it is time for the lawsuit phase. Since according to the experts here there is no ELT switch available to the pilots this is simply a negligence case by Malaysian Airlines and Boeing. A suing lawyer can easily come up and say:

"An ELT switch installed on piston planes for prompt emergency rescue was not available on the MH370 B777. This is why the pilots could not call for rescue because they didn't have rescue button to press". "Total negligence by the Malaysia Airline and Boeing"

At $5M per passenger this could be very well be a $1+billion case. Not bad for a simple negligence case.

José
 
Piloto said:
Since the MH370 search is over now it is time for the lawsuit phase. Since according to the experts here there is no ELT switch available to the pilots this is simply a negligence case by Malaysian Airlines and Boeing. A suing lawyer can easily come up and say:



"An ELT switch installed on piston planes for prompt emergency rescue was not available on the MH370 B777...."



José
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I don't understand the fascination with ELTs. They are not a cure all nor a guarantee of being found. For one someone has to hear it first. And there's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" syndrome with them. They often are set off in hangars, when they fall off of shelves and land in metal waste baskets in avionics shops, or are packed in UPS containers getting loaded on planes. And those are the easy finds.

But that is just my slightly informed opinion.


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dtuuri said:
Interesting plot of Inmarsat's logic at two cruising speeds, 450 & 400 kts:
View attachment 33769
It was posted here:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sengers-protest-against-malaysia-live-updates

Note that the tracks begin after the aircraft had been on a northwest heading, ie, it didn't simply head for an alternate airport and just keep on going. So much for the simple Occam's razor theory...

dtuuri
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Also note that the turn from the northwest heading happened at the hand-off point to Indian ATC (around IGREX). Maybe they couldn't catch SQ68 in time and went to plan B? :stirpot:

dtuuri
 
Piloto said:
Since the MH370 search is over now it is time for the lawsuit phase. Since according to the experts here there is no ELT switch available to the pilots this is simply a negligence case by Malaysian Airlines and Boeing. A suing lawyer can easily come up and say:

"An ELT switch installed on piston planes for prompt emergency rescue was not available on the MH370 B777. This is why the pilots could not call for rescue because they didn't have rescue button to press". "Total negligence by the Malaysia Airline and Boeing"

At $5M per passenger this could be very well be a $1+billion case. Not bad for a simple negligence case.

José
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Angling for a job as plaintiff's "expert" witness?
 
Now that all the BS press releases are over I'm simply waiting for them to either find evidence the plane is in the Indian Ocean or them saying the search is called off. If they don't find it soon, the Malaysian government will run out of money to continue the search.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I would press the button for the SAT phone and call Gander or Prestwick just like l always do when I can't get comm. Tell me how many hours you have in a 777 ? or are you just an internet picture snipper ?
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From reading Jose's post here and elsewhere I get the impression he is an internet flight simmer. :rolleyes2:
 
Flying_Nun said:
I don't understand the fascination with ELTs. They are not a cure all nor a guarantee of being found. For one someone has to hear it first. And there's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" syndrome with them. They often are set off in hangars, when they fall off of shelves and land in metal waste baskets in avionics shops, or are packed in UPS containers getting loaded on planes. And those are the easy finds.

But that is just my slightly informed opinion.


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Flying Nun
For you is easy because you just only have to pray for help. For me I have to rely on an ELT hoping Obatman comes to the rescue.

José
 
On the subject of ELTs, why can't they engineer ELTs that are on the outside of the airplane that break off and float on impact? If they did that, this crap would have been over weeks ago.
 
Dav8or said:
On the subject of ELTs, why can't they engineer ELTs that are on the outside of the airplane that break off and float on impact? If they did that, this crap would have been over weeks ago.
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Wouldn't it float away from the wreckage?? Kinda defeats the purpose.;)
 
Piloto said:
Flying Nun

For you is easy because you just only have to pray for help. For me I have to rely on an ELT hoping Obatman comes to the rescue.



José
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What are you trying to say here?


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Flying_Nun said:
I don't understand the fascination with ELTs. They are not a cure all nor a guarantee of being found. For one someone has to hear it first. And there's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" syndrome with them. They often are set off in hangars, when they fall off of shelves and land in metal waste baskets in avionics shops, or are packed in UPS containers getting loaded on planes. And those are the easy finds.

But that is just my slightly informed opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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A 406 ELT when activated will be heard by the COPAS/SARSAT system within 6 seconds if it is a GPS fed unit, they will have your position in 6 minutes.
 
There is a stolen vehicle GPS locator in my car, why can't they have something like that on a plane?
 
us AAirways said:
There is a stolen vehicle GPS locator in my car, why can't they have something like that on a plane?
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They could. But there's a little problem in this case. GPS's and radios don't work under water...
 
ELT's are somewhat over rated. No one is required to have a 406Mhz ELT, the mandate only requres you to have a 121.5Mhz ELT which, by the regulatory body's own admission is COMPLETELY OBSOLETE.

MH370 mysteriously disappeared and because of that everyone is in an uproar because they weren't required to have an ELT but even if they had been required and even if it had worked the only difference now would be that we might know where it is. It wouldn't have prevented what happened from happening, all on board would still be dead.

I'm pretty sure that this incident is going to result in a whole slew of new regulations and mandates because that is how we usually end up dealing with things, complete over the top knee jerk reaction. How many times has this happened to an airliner in this exact manner? Answer: ONCE. This isn't something that's occurring on a regular basis, this isn't a pervasive and debilitating problem that is happening over and over again and again like your monthly mass shooting spree (which we BTW have never done anything about) This most likely isn't EVER going to happen again.

But we're gonna make dog gone sure no matter what it costs us that IF it ever happens again we'll be able to find the wreckage in a timely manner. :rolleyes2:
 
Piloto said:
Since the MH370 search is over now it is time for the lawsuit phase. Since according to the experts here there is no ELT switch available to the pilots this is simply a negligence case by Malaysian Airlines and Boeing. A suing lawyer can easily come up and say:

"An ELT switch installed on piston planes for prompt emergency rescue was not available on the MH370 B777. This is why the pilots could not call for rescue because they didn't have rescue button to press". "Total negligence by the Malaysia Airline and Boeing"

At $5M per passenger this could be very well be a $1+billion case. Not bad for a simple negligence case.

José
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I'm not sure how much you know about 777s, but I think you know less about the law. It doesn't work that way.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm not sure how much you know about 777s, but I think you know less about the law. It doesn't work that way.
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You are right I am not a lawyer or legal expert. But since you know how it works please tell me how it does, so I do not waste my efforts on claiming to be a relative.

Thanks

José
 
Silvaire said:
ELT's are somewhat over rated. No one is required to have a 406Mhz ELT, the mandate only requres you to have a 121.5Mhz ELT which, by the regulatory body's own admission is COMPLETELY OBSOLETE.

MH370 mysteriously disappeared and because of that everyone is in an uproar because they weren't required to have an ELT but even if they had been required and even if it had worked the only difference now would be that we might know where it is. It wouldn't have prevented what happened from happening, all on board would still be dead.

I'm pretty sure that this incident is going to result in a whole slew of new regulations and mandates because that is how we usually end up dealing with things, complete over the top knee jerk reaction. How many times has this happened to an airliner in this exact manner? Answer: ONCE. This isn't something that's occurring on a regular basis, this isn't a pervasive and debilitating problem that is happening over and over again and again like your monthly mass shooting spree (which we BTW have never done anything about) This most likely isn't EVER going to happen again.

But we're gonna make dog gone sure no matter what it costs us that IF it ever happens again we'll be able to find the wreckage in a timely manner. :rolleyes2:
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The rules you refer to are US rules, other countries require all SAR transponders to be 406. The US would have a couple of years ago, but AOPA got it blocked for your safety.
 
Henning said:
The rules you refer to are US rules, other countries require all SAR transponders to be 406. The US would have a couple of years ago, but AOPA got it blocked for your safety.
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They blocked 406 ELTs but support ADS-B. I want what they are smoking.
 
Lots of private pilots carry a personal locator beacon, or PLB. It is like a battery powered ELT in my pocket. And it is cheap.

Is there a chance we would have found MH370 already if airline pilots on international routes also carried a PLB on their person?
 
NoHeat said:
Lots of private pilots carry a personal locator beacon, or PLB. It is like a battery powered ELT in my pocket. And it is cheap.

Is there a chance we would have found MH370 already if airline pilots on international routes also carried a PLB on their person?
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Only if they were awake to activate it, there is no automatic trigger on a PLB.
 
ClimbnSink said:
They blocked 406 ELTs but support ADS-B. I want what they are smoking.
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I think they were vaccinated against common sense disease.

With a 406MHz ELT you have the same data as on ADS-B (GPS position and identity). But unlike ADS-B that only works with ground ATC on land. 406Mhz ELTs have world wide coverage via a satellite network. Ideal for Oceanic ATC. No need for HF position reports or new equipment. Position is reported in a short burst every 50 seconds with little chance of mutual interference. There is a data field in the burst that can be used to indicate flight status emergency/safe.

José
 
Henning said:
The rules you refer to are US rules, other countries require all SAR transponders to be 406. The US would have a couple of years ago, but AOPA got it blocked for your safety.
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Whoa hold on there, nobody is stopping me from having a 406Mhz ELT if I want one and nobody is forcing me to have one if I don't. Is there something wrong with that all of a sudden? :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
Whoa hold on there, nobody is stopping me from having a 406Mhz ELT if I want one and nobody is forcing me to have one if I don't. Is there something wrong with that all of a sudden? :dunno:
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Not as long as people who don't carry a 406 don't expect more than 2 hrs of SAR.
 
Silvaire said:
ELT's are somewhat over rated. No one is required to have a 406Mhz ELT, the mandate only requres you to have a 121.5Mhz ELT which, by the regulatory body's own admission is COMPLETELY OBSOLETE.

MH370 mysteriously disappeared and because of that everyone is in an uproar because they weren't required to have an ELT but even if they had been required and even if it had worked the only difference now would be that we might know where it is. It wouldn't have prevented what happened from happening, all on board would still be dead.

I'm pretty sure that this incident is going to result in a whole slew of new regulations and mandates because that is how we usually end up dealing with things, complete over the top knee jerk reaction. How many times has this happened to an airliner in this exact manner? Answer: ONCE. This isn't something that's occurring on a regular basis, this isn't a pervasive and debilitating problem that is happening over and over again and again like your monthly mass shooting spree (which we BTW have never done anything about) This most likely isn't EVER going to happen again.

But we're gonna make dog gone sure no matter what it costs us that IF it ever happens again we'll be able to find the wreckage in a timely manner. :rolleyes2:
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Since this was a foreign carrier with the majority of those lost not being Americans I'm not so sure there will be lots of pressure for additional regulation. If this had been an American carrier there would be regulation no doubt.
 
Piloto said:
With a 406MHz ELT you have the same data as on ADS-B (GPS position and identity). But unlike ADS-B that only works with ground ATC on land. 406Mhz ELTs have world wide coverage via a satellite network. Ideal for Oceanic ATC. No need for HF position reports or new equipment. Position is reported in a short burst every 50 seconds with little chance of mutual interference. There is a data field in the burst that can be used to indicate flight status emergency/safe.
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You're saying a 406 ELT would be "ideal for oceanic ATC"? Sure seems so, with the "no need for new equipment." So you think the SAR satellites should be repurposed for oceanic ATC?
 
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