New Diamond DA50

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Mtns2Skies, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    N1120A and Tantalum like this.
  2. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude

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    Amazing aircraft. Cirrus should find some strong competition with this new aircraft.
     
  3. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think at this price point the giant rod sticking between your legs will not be a positive sell point.
     
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  4. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Well that is a bit emasculating

    AggieMike88
    “... and it’s deep too”

    Two men are peeing off a bridge.

    One is from California and one is from Texas.

    The one from California says "Man, this water is cold."

    The one from Texas says "Yeah, and it's deep too.
     
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  5. wrbix

    wrbix Pattern Altitude

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    ....and will it fit in most T hangars?
     
  6. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    The co-pilot side is removable.
     
  7. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    It's got a weight problem I think, maybe a performance problem and that range doesn't sound great. We've been waiting years for this airplane, I'm glad it's finally here but I was expecting faster cruise speeds.
     
  8. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    44ft wingspan and 30.5ft nose-to-tail...
     
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  9. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That’s larger than any other single engine piston that I know of, even larger than most twin pistons as well. A standard T hangar will be too small for that...
     
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  10. Seanaldinho

    Seanaldinho Pattern Altitude

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    Classic diamond issue, essentially a tradition at this point.

    In Österreich gibt es keinen "T-hangar".
     
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  11. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Does the CD-300 have a reasonable reliability record?
     
  12. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    Can someone explain a bit more about this engine. It doesn't appear to be a turbine like a TBM or Meridian. Is it like a diesel that can burn Jet A?
     
  13. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    The quickest of google searches has revealed that to be the case:
    http://www.continental.aero/diesel/engines/cd300.aspx
     
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  14. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    Perhaps it's time for Germans to consider folding wings. I saw a Stemme with folding wings. In fact it has to taxi with wings folded in most places.
     
  15. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-Flight

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    It looks cool, I guess.. I'm just not all that impressed with the Numbers. I was hoping for better performance numbers, that and only holds 50gal..
     
  16. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    Conti was selling diesels for many years now. Just a few years ago their line-up consisted of 3 groups:

    1. The 100-series. These were in-line, liquid cooled engines, derived from the Austro. It's basically the engine we're all familiar with in Diamond DA-42, which found a wide market with military customers in the smaller countries. Many attempts were made to adapt it to PA-28 and 172 as OEM engine, where it's generally underpowered.

    2. The 200-series. These were opposite, air-cooled engines licensed from SMA. They were supplying conversions for Skyhawks and Skylanes since at least 1990s.

    3. The 300-series. This is a liquid cooled, V6 engine, which Thielert developed as their "next-gen" engine. It's similar to RED V06 and other drone diesels. The DA-50 RG uses a certified version of it.

    Although the SMA diesel was considered the most trustworthy among them and offered good power, for some reason TCM isn't selling it well. It's being phased out in favor of the CD-300.
     
  17. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    So many people harp upon the meaningless metric of "payload with full fuel" that apparently OEMs started to limit the tank size just to make that dumb number look better.
     
  18. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Pattern Altitude

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  19. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Brand new aircraft design, something rare as hen's teeth, and all you guys can do is bitch.
     
  20. Seanaldinho

    Seanaldinho Pattern Altitude

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    Just don't ask the Austrians to do it, they might be offended you thought they were German.

    Folding wings add weight, complexity, and when you add those two you add cost.

    If you can afford the plane, you can afford a place to keep it.

     
  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ah, everything old is new again. Diamond has been teasing airplanes called the DA-50 and/or "Super Star" for at least a decade. Sometimes they're even pressurized.

    But, this looks pretty cool. Take a Cirrus, fold the gear, and throw a diesel on it. I bet it performs as well or better than the Cirrus does on half the fuel burn.

    I'm not seeing numbers anywhere???

    Also, the diesel engines have quite miserly fuel burns, usually somewhere in the neighborhood of half what the equivalent 100LL-burner has. 50 gallons is plenty if you're only burning 6-7 gallons an hour.
     
  22. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Least they can do is try to get it right.
     
  23. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Remember not to use 100LL math since this is a diesel engine burning Jet-A. 50gal is probably much more endurance than you think (and a little bit more weight, too).
     
  24. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Is that it though? Burns less gas? If you can afford the $1.5 mil (my prediction) it costs, you don't care about gas. The literature on their site says 181 kts max speed, nothing about cruise. At max range it burns 9 gph , 750nm with 30 reserve.
     
  25. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Cleared for Takeoff

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    Everything is a trade off.
     
  26. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Yup, I'm ragging too hard on it, it is a purty plane and I'm sure it would be cool to fly. I think the engine manufacturers need to figure out how to up the horsepower in piston engines.
     
  27. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, the way they tend to recommend running the diesels, "cruise" is probably very very close to max speed. I bet it'll do 170-175 knots on 7.5 gph if you pull it back a bit. Considering my Mooney burns 12 gph to do that speed, the range is going to be just fine.
     
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  28. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    I guess being in the vintage mooney world so long, my expectations are lower. I really like that the rear passengers have their own dedicated doors. Does anyone know a price a price point for this plane?
     
  29. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Also, there's no way it'll be $1.5m. That class of airplanes is currently selling in the $700K range. Still more than I can afford but nowhere near $1.5m. What remains to be seen is whether they can stand up to Cirrus' fantastic marketing department.
     
  30. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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  31. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    it seemed like diamonds were really hot a few years back, but I don't see too much talk about them anymore.
     
  32. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I figure not having to tell people you fly a Cirrus is worth at least a couple hundred grand! :p
     
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  33. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    They've been trying to bring this thing to market for like 15 years
     
  34. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    $1.5 is probably too high, but Cirrus is bumping a million, last I checked, a Bonanza was bumping a million. Your point about the diesel is probably a good one, but still, there has been a lot of hype over airplane for a long time, I expected more.
     
  35. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    It's actually kind of fun, lol. The last guy I told who had an issue with Cirrus told me he flew one for fifteen minutes and his hand hurt for a week. I told him you have to trim an airplane when you fly it.
     
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  36. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    I think you have a valid point. It help some that it's jet-a, and fuel efficient. But 50 still seems like on the small side for the application.

    Edit: Although, assuming max range of 750 miles at 9 gph burn, and about one gallon unusable fuel, that equates to roughly 4.9 hours plus a 30 minute reserve. You probably won't want to fly longer than that anyway. So, maybe the tank is big enough. They don't say what airspeed is "max range." I'm not sure how much the fuel burn goes up with a realistic cruise speed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  37. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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  38. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, God hasn't upgraded physics at all in the meantime, so you're still stuck with a realistic airplane. ;)
     
  39. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I think if the airplane went on a major weight loss program they might have something. The diesel weighs maybe 100 pounds more than a gas engine of equal HP. The Cirrus comes in at 3,600 max weight, this thing is at 4,400 pounds.
     
  40. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Complete hearsay for both rumors below:
    • SMA/200 series engine CMI tried to sell to Cessna had a vibration and turbo problem. Neither could be solved to Cessna satisfaction.
    • For Cirrus, the CD-200 series is under powered for the 22; over powered for the 20; and too heavy without significant changes to the planes.

    Tim
     
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