New case against flight tracking

Lindberg said:
You can get that info from license plates, just not on Google. And feel free to register your plane to an entity or use a PO Box or both. Boom. Privacy.
Click to expand...
Ok, short of someone that works in some law enforcement or government agency, who can look up a license plate? And owners shouldn't have to register LLCs to a PO box in a state that's a bit more private on what information they publish on LLCs to get the equivalent level of privacy afforded by blinds on their windows.
donjohnston said:
Do you have an exit from your house through a cave with a hidden exit?
Click to expand...
Not everyone lives in a single family home in a suburb. Some people might not draw any particular attention as they exit the building they live in.

As I said a few messages ahead, I'd rather have a fix that is in-line with the privacy of car ownership. Not allowing pretty much anyone to look up a registered address associated with an N-number deals with 99%+ of the privacy issues. We can deal with the remaining 1% after. If someone decides to be within view of your house exit, that works both ways.
 
It's like locking your car. It won't keep out a determined or professional thief, but it will deter the casual thief from bothering. Why make it easy for them?

If tracking somebody's airplane required people to stand by the airport and physically observe the plane's movements, the creep who runs the celebrity jet tracker no doubt wouldn't bother... he's a programmer, not a PI or paparazzi. And it wouldn't be so easy for all the others who use the data the creep provides... "Oh my goodness, such a horrible person, just look at her carbon footprint!"
 
Lindberg said:
And feel free to register your plane to an entity or use a PO Box or both. Boom. Privacy.
Click to expand...
An entity might not always help. A quick corporation search at a state’s secretary of state website will likely turn up the name and address of the entity’s owner, unless it’s a Delaware corp. Try it for example with a business like your favorite small local FBO.
 
Dana said:
If tracking somebody's airplane required people to stand by the airport and physically observe the plane's movements
Click to expand...
Funny, that is exactly what we would see flying in Europe in the late 1960s and early 70s. People along the fence taking photos and writing down numbers, to track the movement of military aircraft.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Funny, that is exactly what we would see flying in Europe in the late 1960s and early 70s. People along the fence taking photos and writing down numbers, to track the movement of military aircraft.
Click to expand...
“Spotters” as they are termed still do it in Europe today, and with all kinds of planes. They then publish the photos online. In the US we see little of this because people with enough interest to go to the airport would more likely be flying themselves… except that my plane was photographed by a traveling European spotter in the western US! That’s a little odd, as hobbies go.
 
Last edited:
Tusayan said:
“Spotters” as they are termed still do it in Europe today, and with all kinds of planes. They then publish the photos online. In the US we see little of this because people with enough interest to go to the airport would more likely be flying themselves… except that my plane was photographed by a traveling European spotter in the western US! That’s a little odd, as hobbies go.
Click to expand...
You should see 'em at Oshkosh. They literally walk the lines of aircraft taking pictures and making notes (capturing n numbers) of every aircraft they come across. Good for them. I don't have that much patience.
 
kyleb said:
I think it is about personal privacy. There is no "need to know" by the public where my airplane is at any given time or who owns the airplane.
Click to expand...
It also helps that almost nobody cares about where your airplane is.

My wife, father-in-law, and occasionally some friends like to know where I am, so I'm fine with my position being broadcast. If others want to follow, drop me a line and let me know when I'm in your area.
 
bflynn said:
It also helps that almost nobody cares about where your airplane is.

My wife, father-in-law, and occasionally some friends like to know where I am, so I'm fine with my position being broadcast. If others want to follow, drop me a line and let me know when I'm in your area.
Click to expand...
Like you, nobody really cares where I am. But don't you think it should be "opt in" at best? I bet the folks who run Berkshire Hathaway, Bill Gates, and other high profile (potentially vulnerable) people would prefer anonymity, and why shouldn't they have it?
 
kyleb said:
Like you, nobody really cares where I am. But don't you think it should be "opt in" at best? I bet the folks who run Berkshire Hathaway, Bill Gates, and other high profile (potentially vulnerable) people would prefer anonymity, and why shouldn't they have it?
Click to expand...
No, I think every airplane should be publicly trackable.

The privacy issue comes from knowing who owns an aircraft, not the position of airplanes in the sky.
 
dtuuri said:
I bet it won't be after somebody actually tries it.
Click to expand...
Actually, already being done for years...private companies (Motorola and FlockSafety) do all the plate reader/plate tracking in my home state. Then they sell it to who ever wants it, including both police and/or private entities.

Also in my state, ANYONE can get plate/vehicle/owner info from the state, for $6 per plate. It's public information, you just have to know how to get it.
 
Last edited:
Ed Haywood said:
Knowing where the airplanes are is useful information to avoid running into them.
Click to expand...
That is only useful to other planes in the area and ATC. Nobody else needs to know this, and the ownership and passenger manifest are irrelevant to the safety function.
 
StraightnLevel said:
That is only useful to other planes in the area and ATC. Nobody else needs to know this, and the ownership and passenger manifest are irrelevant to the safety function.
Click to expand...
And how do you propose limiting reception to other planes in the area?

Ownership is not provided by ADS-B. Those who want it are cross referencing from N Number registration. That is easily prevented by using a corporate entity.

Passenger manifests are not available anywhere.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Ownership is not provided by ADS-B. Those who want it are cross referencing from N Number registration. That is easily prevented by using a corporate entity.
Click to expand...
The corporate entity is where the risk lies. When a publicly traded corp's plan shows up at the airport next to a likely acquisition target or competitor, it has the potential to be insider information that the corp has a legal requirement to hold as confidential.
 
Last edited:
kyleb said:
I agree. But there is no need by the general public to be able to trace the ownership of the airplane.
Click to expand...
That is a completely different issue that has nothing to do with ADS-B. The N Number registry is public information because that is required by law. Your issue is with Congress, who published the CFR.
 
Why don't we make every car license plate owners info publicly available and trackable as to their every movement by everyone on the internet?

Zero reason ownership and location data of privately owned planes should be publicly available...you could make an argument for the carriers but not privately owned planes IMO.
 
Lindberg said:
Please explain how you will prevent those planes from sharing this information with the general public without violating the first amendment.
Click to expand...
Planes don't even have to share. Anyone in the general public can receive the same signal. The radio waves don't care if you are a plane and can't be made to care. All it takes is a Stratux and an antenna on your roof
 
StraightnLevel said:
The corporate entity is where the risk lies. When a publicly traded corp's plan shows up at the airport next to a likely acquisition target or competitor, it has the potential to be insider information that the corp has a legal requirement to hold as confidential.
Click to expand...
If you are playing at that level then you have the coin for decent lawyers to structure corporate entities to sever the connection. Easy to do: register the aircraft to a separate entity, then lease it to the parent entity. If a publicly traded corp can't figure that out then they need better lawyers.
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you are playing at that level then you have the coin for decent lawyers to structure corporate entities to sever the connection. Easy to do: register the aircraft to a separate entity, then lease it to the parent entity. If a publicly traded corp can't figure that out then they need better lawyers.
Click to expand...
Certainly true, but the need to do so should not be there in the first place. Airplanes are private property.
 
All this discussion about being able to look up N numbers and find the owners is really irrelevant. I doubt Taylor Swift's airplanes are registered to her personally. But anybody can figure out her N numbers by watching her get on or off a plane, and then track the ADSB. No access to government records required.
 
Last edited:
donjohnston said:
Do you have an exit from your house through a cave with a hidden exit?

Otherwise it's fairly easy for someone to know when you're not at home (if they really want to know).
Click to expand...
Not currently. The next Fancy real estate purchase will have enough acreage for a STOL strip and a secure home site.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Read the FAA regs at the link I provided.
Click to expand...
I don't need to read the regs again to know that the FAA only regulates a very small percentage of rocketry and still doesn't require clearances. Your claim about drones is also false.
 
I believe you only have to contact the FAA to launch high powered rockets.
 
Salty said:
it's a bad link
Click to expand...
Fixed.

Lindberg said:
I don't need to read the regs again to know that the FAA only regulates a very small percentage of rocketry and still doesn't require clearances. Your claim about drones is also false.
Click to expand...


Here's a portion of the text from the FAA regs:

Part 101 requires all Class 2 and 3 amateur rocket operators to notify the FAA air traffic facility nearest the place of intended operation prior to the launch. Notice of the launch must be provided to Air Traffic no less than 24 hours and no more than 3 days before the launch operation.
[...]
A waiver/authorization is required for amateur rocket operations conducted outside the operating limitations per paragraph 31-2-2. The most common reason for requesting a waiver/authorization is to operate within controlled airspace. An applicant must submit its waiver/authorization request to the service area. If the applicant submits its request directly to AST, AST must direct the applicant to submit its request directly to the service area.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top