Need some Outside Car Mechanic Advice

[fgcason]

It's a V6. They won't go out all at the same time, may run a bit rought at idle or make less power under full load, but worn electrodes on a multi-cylinder engine won't cause it to seize in place.

It depends on needs vs wants. If you need low rpm idle or adequate power for something like a high mountain pass, you need all the cylinders working properly. I had one cylinder out of 8 not firing properly (failing spark plug wire) and damned near didn't make it over one of the higher rocky mountain passes a couple years ago.
OTOH, putzing around in civilization with a light load on mostly flat ground and rescue only a few minutes away, run it until it won't run anymore.

 

[Henning]

It's a V6. They won't go out all at the same time, may run a bit rought at idle or make less power under full load, but worn electrodes on a multi-cylinder engine won't cause it to seize in place.

You will use fuel out the ying yang though. I don't disagree that plugs rarely to never need replacement anymore, but when they do, they do. Unless I was having a problem I wouldn't change them until I did the timing belt.

 

[weilke]

You will use fuel out the ying yang though. I don't disagree that plugs rarely to never need replacement anymore, but when they do, they do. Unless I was having a problem I wouldn't change them until I did the timing belt.

Sure, if there are signs of wear, they need to be replaced. But starting to disassemble manifolds or dropping engines on a non-performance car to replace lightly worn plugs just because the schedule says they are due is imhno money poorly spent.

 

[Henning]

Sure, if there are signs of wear, they need to be replaced. But starting to disassemble manifolds or dropping engines on a non-performance car to replace lightly worn plugs just because the schedule says they are due is imhno money poorly spent.

Well, if you look at the scheduled maintenance of most new cars, plugs are a high mile item anymore and often scheduled to be done with the timing belt and other major maint routines where dis-assembly is also required.

The thing that annoys me most though is the plastic covers over everything, THAT is where I waste too much time.

BTW, a lightly worn plug may cause things to get much worse on a modern digitally controlled engine than on an old one. The old one would just drop that cylinder and that was it. Now when readings go wrong and the computer can't manage to get the readings it needs, the default is often then to revert to a 'full rich, full retard" mode that screws up everything.

 

[AggieMike88]

No wonder you want to get away from the J word and use the R.

That's why on my latest set of business cards, I changed my title to "Parts Cash Conversion Specialist"

 

[Henning]

That's why on my latest set of business cards, I changed my title to "Parts Cash Conversion Specialist"

I used to buy 403 Olds engines as running pull outs for $300 to replace in the cars with the 5.7 GM Diesels. Used to get 6 month old Delta 88s and other luxury GMs for next to nothing, under $1200 for a $12,000 car. We'd do the engine swap and run them back through the auction the next week for $7500. Those were the best engines that GM ever made from my point of view....

 

[ARFlyer]

Update:

It took us about 5 hours last night to replace the spark plugs. We had to take off the intake system and throttle control valves. We dont have any left over parts however the car wont run. Last night it would start really rough, then go to idle and end by going wide open before we shut it off a few seconds later. This morning it will only fire once or twice before it just dies. Like an aircraft engine that that just turns over on the fuel in the lines. Any ideas on what causing this?

The spark plugs where half good and half horribly bad. The passenger side ones were whitish gray from normal use. However the drivers side were all cover in black oil. The worse was the front two cylinders.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Update:

It took us about 5 hours last night to replace the spark plugs. We had to take off the intake system and throttle control valves. We dont have any left over parts however the car wont run. Last night it would start really rough, then go to idle and end by going wide open before we shut it off a few seconds later. This morning it will only fire once or twice before it just dies. Like an aircraft engine that that just turns over on the fuel in the lines. Any ideas on what causing this?

The spark plugs where half good and half horribly bad. The passenger side ones were whitish gray from normal use. However the drivers side were all cover in black oil. The worse was the front two cylinders.

Worn valve guides, and possibly a sludged oil return line in the head on the bad side of the engine.

Make sure all sensors (MAP, IAT, etc...) are connected properly. You may also have upset the TPS (throttle position sensor) calibration which will wreak havoc with running.

If you have access to a diagnostic computer, might be a good idea to see if you can pull a code.

 

[Henning]

Update:

It took us about 5 hours last night to replace the spark plugs. We had to take off the intake system and throttle control valves. We dont have any left over parts however the car wont run. Last night it would start really rough, then go to idle and end by going wide open before we shut it off a few seconds later. This morning it will only fire once or twice before it just dies. Like an aircraft engine that that just turns over on the fuel in the lines. Any ideas on what causing this?

The spark plugs where half good and half horribly bad. The passenger side ones were whitish gray from normal use. However the drivers side were all cover in black oil. The worse was the front two cylinders.

Plugs were covered in black oil or fuel wet carbon?

I hope since it's such a PITA to get to the plugs that you did a compression test, otherwise you're looking at another 5 hrs because that's next.

 

[ARFlyer]

Plugs were covered in black oil or fuel wet carbon?

I hope since it's such a PITA to get to the plugs that you did a compression test, otherwise you're looking at another 5 hrs because that's next.

Both oil and carbon. My friend said he thinks my head gaskets are gone.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Both oil and carbon. My friend said he thinks my head gaskets are gone.

Do you have coolant in the oil?

 

[ARFlyer]

Not that I know of. The plugs just have dark brown to black oil on the tips and threads.

 

[AggieMike88]

[

Not that I know of. The plugs just have dark brown to black oil on the tips and threads.

This isn't head gasket. This is poor combustion or too much oil getting into the cylinder.

As far as not running well, the suggestion of plugging in a scanner is valid. Once you get the codes, likely a reset or flash of the computer is warranted.

 

[Henning]

Both oil and carbon. My friend said he thinks my head gaskets are gone.

Quite possible, you may as well pull it off and find out, you're pulling that head no matter what anyway. When you get in there you'll have to figure out if it's worth fixing or not. Make sure you put a straight edge on the deck, if it's not true and needs machining, your Montero may be beyond economic recovery without a crap load of work on your part. If the deck is warped I'd be looking for a place that still calls themself a junkyard and see if you can't find a $400 running pull out. Even then unless that truck is in fine shape you're economically unrecoverable so any money you spend you're gonna have to drive out of it.

 

[Sac Arrow]

[

This isn't head gasket. This is poor combustion or too much oil getting into the cylinder.

As far as not running well, the suggestion of plugging in a scanner is valid. Once you get the codes, likely a reset or flash of the computer is warranted.

Likely, the incomplete combustion is caused by oil fouled plugs.

 

[pilot_dude]

To pile on to the items that have already been listed as being outrageously overpriced, the 'Differential Service' consists of changing about $20 worth of gear oil - oh wait, it's RWD - $10 worth of gear oil. And a $172 fuel filter better come with $150 worth of free gas.

Mitsubishi's take LSD fluid which is a bit higher. Also, if it is not formulated to Mitsu's specs, it will chatter. Experience, not conjecture.

 

[ARFlyer]

The new plugs are in the engine. So its not wanting to start with the new plugs. Could I have made the idle controller go bad? Or does the computer just need to be reset? The battery was off last night so I would have thought that would reset it. Would the computer be telling it not to start?

 

[pilot_dude]

Yes, but typically not within the same engine code.

Mitsu made literally hundreds of changes within the same engine codes. Same with transaxle codes (which the Montero does not have).

 

[pilot_dude]

Yes, you will need to go through an idle relearn procedure.

 

[Henning]

I still think you need to do a compression test, that doesn't show on a code best of my knowledge. You need compression to run correctly.

 

[weilke]

You wouldn't have to worry about oil on the plugs had you not decided to pull them in the first place

 

[Matthew]

Are the wires back in the correct order?

 

[ARFlyer]

Are the wires back in the correct order?

To my knowledge they are in the correct order. I think the cylinders are as followed:

PAX-------DRIVER

5------------6
3------------4
1------------2
---FRONT--------

FIRE ORDER 1-2-3-4-5-6

EI plug order

-----1------2------3----- EI PLUG
---(5-2)--(1-4)--(3-6)--- WIRE ORDER

 

[Henning]

To my knowledge they are in the correct order. I think the cylinders are as followed:

PAX-------DRIVER

5------------6
3------------4
1------------2
---FRONT--------

FIRE ORDER 1-2-3-4-5-6

EI plug order

-----1------2------3----- EI PLUG
---(5-2)--(1-4)--(3-6)--- WIRE ORDER

1-3-5-4-6-2, clockwise on the cap if it's the engine I'm thinking of.

 

[ARFlyer]

1-3-5-4-6-2, clockwise on the cap if it's the engine I'm thinking of.

No cap. That why I add the Electronic Coil plug layout.

 

[Henning]

No cap. That why I add the Electronic Coil plug layout.

Doh, so you have opposing cylinders on each pack, ok... Got the plugs back out to check the compression yet?

 

[jaybee]

This is entertaining for a retired mechanic....

its nice that everyone tries to be helpful though.

real simple, it ran before you took it apart and didn't when you put it back together. your symptoms are classic intake leak symptoms.

good luck.

 

[Henning]

This is entertaining for a retired mechanic....

its nice that everyone tries to be helpful though.

real simple, it ran before you took it apart and didn't when you put it back together. your symptoms are classic intake leak symptoms.

good luck.

Intake leaks cause wet spark plugs? He had problems before he started already which is why he started.

 

[jaybee]

Intake leaks cause wet spark plugs? He had problems before he started already which is why he started.

Yea, he had an oil light problem. The vehicle ran. Oil on plugs... who cares... my stepdaughters car has been running like that for 4 years....

 

[Henning]

Yea, he had an oil light problem. The vehicle ran. Oil on plugs... who cares... my stepdaughters car has been running like that for 4 years....

I realize the not running is due to a reassembly error and the entire diagnostics on this was cluster f-, but regardless, he likely has major internal issues. If the plugs are oiled because of rings or guides, no worry except for being an environmental night mare and costing yourself fuel efficiency and $$ every mile you drive. However when that indication comes with low oil pressure, it indicates a breach between an oil gallery and the cylinders is suspect. That's why verifying the oil pressure was the first thing to do.

 

[jaybee]

That's why verifying the oil pressure was the first thing to do.

I wouldn't have spent a penny on it until I did a mechanical oil pressure test.

I still say bah on oily plugs only because the ROI isn't worth it, not because of the technical assertion.

 

[Henning]

I wouldn't have spent a penny on it until I did a mechanical oil pressure test.

I still say bah on oily plugs only because the ROI isn't worth it, not because of the technical assertion.

That I agree with until I got a miss. Personally I think unless the rest of the truck is in excellent condition, at this point it's probably pretty much economically done in. The only reason I would bother doing anything is because the head gasket is the leading candidate at this point, and those lead to having a Ford.

 

[ARFlyer]

Update:

So I finally got my truck running again after a week worth of work. I discovered why my truck would not run from Thursday's spark plug work. When we had trouble putting in some of the bolts that night my friend took a look saw that the intake gasket was blocking the hole. With us being tired, it being 1AM and him annoyed we used a hammer to beat the bolts through the gasket. Well come to find out this was the worse thing possible to do! I spent another two days taking the engine back apart and driving around town trying to find gaskets. Come to find out my truck is not the American built version of the Montero Sport, it is actually an imported Japanese built version. So there is a number of differences to the point that its hard to find parts. So that explained why all the gaskets, but one, the part stores had were a 180* different.

So that explains my lack of vacuum pressure and the inability to run the engine!

Also come to find out my friend and I had over tightened the bolts on the first go around. So this being a aluminum intake all the threads were stripped. So a number of bolts and block threads had to be re-threaded.

So two days later, yesterday, I took the truck on a test drive. I found only one major problem. The temp gauge was not working at all. Come to find out there was one computer clip I had forgotten to fasten. I also took pictures while we put the truck back together.

The engine with the intake off. The gasket that we butchered is the one that goes over the intake above.

The middle section of the intake manifold. The intake splits into two sections for you to access the spark plugs. The gasket we could not find is the one for this section. The parts stores thought I was crazy because they had never seen this type of gasket.

The gasket in question. We ended up reusing it as it was not in bad shape.

The condition of the original spark plugs after 155k.

The damage to the lower gasket because of our stupidity and laziness to take the intake back off the first time.

The old one is on the right. This shows the reason why the bolt holes were covered up by the gasket. We had let it move while putting the lower half back on!

 

[jesse]

Sounds like you need to find a more mechanically competent friend next time If something doesn't seem right -- stop -- don't get the hammer out. You'll regret it every time.

Also should have been using a torque wrench.

 

[Henning]

WTF, how drunk we're you guys when you thought hammering a bolt through a gasket was a good idea?

 

[ARFlyer]

WTF, how drunk we're you guys when you thought hammering a bolt through a gasket was a good idea?

Yeah true! We were stone cold sober! Just very tired and ready to get the job done.

 

[AggieMike88]

If you haven't thought about it already, consider writing down all pertinent parts information in a vehicle mx log book. Like we do for the aircraft. In the future, this could save you tons of time and grief because you already know the brand/part# of gasket or other item that you need. Possible even dollars because you can quickly comparison shop.

Plus, it can help you remember dates and odometer and what mx was done. So if something related occurs in the future, you're not relying on an overloaded memory cell to recall the specifics.

 

[Henning]

If you haven't thought about it already, consider writing down all pertinent parts information in a vehicle mx log book. Like we do for the aircraft. In the future, this could save you tons of time and grief because you already know the brand/part# of gasket or other item that you need. Possible even dollars because you can quickly comparison shop.

Plus, it can help you remember dates and odometer and what mx was done. So if something related occurs in the future, you're not relying on an overloaded memory cell to recall the specifics.

The other side of the coin for the typical owner is if you have to buy the same part more than once, you need a new car....

 

[jesse]

If you haven't thought about it already, consider writing down all pertinent parts information in a vehicle mx log book. Like we do for the aircraft. In the future, this could save you tons of time and grief because you already know the brand/part# of gasket or other item that you need. Possible even dollars because you can quickly comparison shop.

Plus, it can help you remember dates and odometer and what mx was done. So if something related occurs in the future, you're not relying on an overloaded memory cell to recall the specifics.

The above is exactly what I do with all my vehicles. Any MX that is performed goes into it -- including the receipts.

 

[denverpilot]

The above is exactly what I do with all my vehicles. Any MX that is performed goes into it -- including the receipts.

I've been looking for an App for that. Still one of the paper processes I have to deal with for the vehicles. Want one that allows photos/scans of the receipts as attachments to the database items. Haven't found one yet.