Need some Outside Car Mechanic Advice

[bbchien]

I think this was the Chevy Citation (aka Chevy Frustration) circa 1981.

...yes. which also had no radiator drain plug.

 

[jesse]

FWIW my f150 has had no oil pressure for the last few thousand miles. The oil pressure gauge is a lie - its just an on/off switch basically and the sensor sender wire is damaged. I can see where it has failed just haven't tried to figure out how to get at that location...been meaning to.

Id start simple -- the switch or sensor, the wiring, etc before I'd start to say there was actually an oil pressure issue.

 

[FlySince9]

Don't ignore the idiot light, lest you be one....

Those engines are notorious... If the oil is running hot your oil pump might get/be clogged with baked oil and, like my engine, all the upper parts will fall into the oil pan . If it were the belt, you'd probably get an alternator light as well. Get it checked out by another shop... Insist they drop the pan and check it out... That is after checking the simple stuff as suggested by Jesse, nothing is found to be wrong there...

That is, if its worth the money to you to guarantee the idiot light is not just being idiotic.

 

[jesse]

Don't ignore the idiot light, lest you be one....

The first time my oil pressure gauge suddenly went to nothing I put it in neutral and shut the engine off..rolled to a stop..and crawled under to look at the sensor. I immediately saw the issue with the sender wire.

 

[FlySince9]

The first time my oil pressure gauge suddenly went to nothing I put it in neutral and shut the engine off..rolled to a stop..and crawled under to look at the sensor. I immediately saw the issue with the sender wire.

I just edited my response to take your idea into consideration first before my more drastic one...

 

[ARFlyer]

Update:

I got all my parts to change the spark plugs, cap, rotor and wires. I figured out today how to check spark plug gaps and how to adjust it to the right setting. My car states .030-.044 for the gap. So I have been shooting for .40 on the gap gauge.

Still have not had a problem with the oil system since thursday. I been keeping a close eye on it all weekend.

 

[fgcason]

Update:

I got all my parts to change the spark plugs, cap, rotor and wires. I figured out today how to check spark plug gaps and how to adjust it to the right setting. My car states .030-.044 for the gap. So I have been shooting for .40 on the gap gauge.

Now you see why it's idiotic and criminal for them to charge $900 in labor for something so trivial.

BTW: The pregapped spark plugs for $1 more that autoparts stores go on and on about, are nonsense. The gap on them out of the box is random.

 

[Henning]

Now you see why it's idiotic and criminal for them to charge $900 in labor for something so trivial.

BTW: The pregapped spark plugs for $1 more that autoparts stores go on and on about, are nonsense. The gap on them out of the box is random.

Depending on the car some spark plugs take hours to get access.

 

[jesse]

Depending on the car some spark plugs take hours to get access.

Even my 5.4L V8 2V F150 takes some time. 8 plugs and you need up needing to pop the fuel rails off to get at everything. Took me three or four hours including replacing injector o-rings.

The newer 3V F150 is even worse since you have to be incredibly careful to avoid busting threads.

 

[cavmedic]

I'm still amazed that it still has a cap and rotor. Thought for sure it would have been DI.

 

[ARFlyer]

I'm still amazed that it still has a cap and rotor. Thought for sure it would have been DI.

Surprise your correct! I got looking around under the hood tracing the wires back to find the cap. Well I couldn't find anything, all the wires go under a finishing plate and disappear. After taking off the plate I come to find out its a computer controlled system. The wires go into three plugs that connect to a serial computer port. So I guess I'm taking the cap and rotor back to napa in the morning. No worries I will get some money back for an oil pressure gauge.

My dad is joking that I'm already ending up with more parts then I started with.

 

[CJones]

Surprise your correct! I got looking around under the hood tracing the wires back to find the cap. Well I couldn't find anything, all the wires go under a finishing plate and disappear. After taking off the plate I come to find out its a computer controlled system. The wires go into three plugs that connect to a serial computer port. So I guess I'm taking the cap and rotor back to napa in the morning. No worries I will get some money back for an oil pressure gauge.

My dad is joking that I'm already ending up with more parts then I started with.

Now I'm curious how you were able to get a cap and rotor in the first place. Don't 90% of the auto parts stores just plug make/model/year into a computer and it spits out part numbers and rack locations for them to grab? Did Mitsubishi have some engines with a cap/rotor and some with EI within the same model year?

 

[cavmedic]

Surprise your correct! I got looking around under the hood tracing the wires back to find the cap. Well I couldn't find anything, all the wires go under a finishing plate and disappear. After taking off the plate I come to find out its a computer controlled system. The wires go into three plugs that connect to a serial computer port. So I guess I'm taking the cap and rotor back to napa in the morning. No worries I will get some money back for an oil pressure gauge.

My dad is joking that I'm already ending up with more parts then I started with.

Are you going to use an electronic sender gauge or the old school with the oil line?

If you have not already done so , hop over on that Mitsubishi forum and look around there. You will find more specifics about that vehicle.


If you plan to use the old school type, you will more than likely have to switch out the sending unit. If using the stock sender , it may or may not be on par with the gauge you purchase. And if you switch it to aftermarket, it may send false signals to the ECM , if it is a monitored. I could see it possibly setting codes and then you might be dealing with a check engine like on top of it all.

 

[ARFlyer]

Now I'm curious how you were able to get a cap and rotor in the first place. Don't 90% of the auto parts stores just plug make/model/year into a computer and it spits out part numbers and rack locations for them to grab? Did Mitsubishi have some engines with a cap/rotor and some with EI within the same model year?

Both my dad and his cousin think that both engines were produced for the '97 model. Is there any reasons why Mitsubishi would jump to new system within the same year?

Both the shop I took it to and the Napa computer system said cap and rotor. But I'm starting to believe the shop didn't even take the face plate off, that covers the EI, during their "inspection".

 

[ARFlyer]

Are you going to use an electronic sender gauge or the old school with the oil line?

If you have not already done so , hop over on that Mitsubishi forum and look around there. You will find more specifics about that vehicle.


If you plan to use the old school type, you will more than likely have to switch out the sending unit. If using the stock sender , it may or may not be on par with the gauge you purchase. And if you switch it to aftermarket, it may send false signals to the ECM , if it is a monitored. I could see it possibly setting codes and then you might be dealing with a check engine like on top of it all.

My cousin said just to put a old school pressure gauge next to an oil port and just read the pressure. He is going to help work on it tomorrow.

So if I do that it will make my sender bad? I know the sender is cheap. I just need to know if I need to pick one up.

 

[weilke]

Is there any reasons why Mitsubishi would jump to new system within the same year?

Because some beancounter told them that they could save $0.09 per car by doing so.

 

[Henning]

Now I'm curious how you were able to get a cap and rotor in the first place. Don't 90% of the auto parts stores just plug make/model/year into a computer and it spits out part numbers and rack locations for them to grab? Did Mitsubishi have some engines with a cap/rotor and some with EI within the same model year?

Yes, but typically not within the same engine code.

 

[denverpilot]

I think this was the Chevy Citation (aka Chevy Frustration) circa 1981.

Yup. 4.0L V6. Been there, done that. Sucked.

On the flip side that 4.0L V6 was indestructible. That Citation II was purchased by Texaco as a company car before I was in high school and passed around the family until well after I was out of college and 300,000+ miles later.

Transmission somehow amazingly survived too and that tranny wasn't known for longevity, unlike the engine.

 

[cavmedic]

My cousin said just to put a old school pressure gauge next to an oil port and just read the pressure. He is going to help work on it tomorrow.

So if I do that it will make my sender bad? I know the sender is cheap. I just need to know if I need to pick one up.

I do not think it will make it bad, but it will have to have been born with the fluid style sender to "T" off of, If you can even find a wet port on that engine.
I was thinking more along the lines of the electronic sender compatibility with the electric style gauge. Depending on the "signal" the sending unit puts out. If it read resistance, tapping it in parallel would lower the resistance , showing a lower pressure. But if it was reading voltage, it would probably be non issue as long as the gauges were calibrated to read similar given the voltage range...

If you can use an old school style, be careful not to over tighten the compression fittings or crack the tubing , especially on the interior side. The last thing you want is that oil to be seeping or squirting all over your interior.

 

[alfadog]

Looking at those prices, I just have one question:

Did you tell him you own an airplane?

 

[HerrGruyere]

The only reason I can think why the ignition tune up is $917 is because they have to lift the engine part way out or remove a bunch of stuff that's in the way (like intake manifolds and the like). The VR6 in the old Jettas comes to mind. Since the engine is transversely mounted, you have to lift the engine part way out to access the rear spark plugs. Same thing on my Mom's Chevy Lumina.

However, on something like a Montero, I can't imagine the engine is transversely mounted. Therefore, they either have to remove a ton of random things to get to the plugs and wires, the plugs and wires are made of unobtanium, or they are gouging you.

For the record, my newfangled 2004 BMW recently had it's variable valve timing system rebuilt, new spark plugs installed, and a new valve cover gasket installed for barely 600 bucks.

200-300 for a wheel bearing isn't too bad. I imagine the bearing is about 150 bucks plus about an hour and a half labor. Bearings are easy, you just need a puller and a press.

The battery is totally a rip and you can do that yourself for about half the price.

 

[Dr. O]

Bend over, they saw you coming!

 

[jaybee]

Negative Ghostriders - depends on if its a DOHC or SOHC engine. Labor guide give 4.0 labor hours for DOHC ( 24v ) engine spark plugs and 3.0 for SOHC ( 12v ) engines. 12v has cap and rotor 24v does not.

 

[CJones]

Negative Ghostriders - depends on if its a DOHC or SOHC engine. Labor guide give 4.0 labor hours for DOHC ( 24v ) engine spark plugs and 3.0 for SOHC ( 12v ) engines. 12v has cap and rotor 24v does not.

You must be newish around here. We don't need no stinking LABOR GUIDE as valid documentation - don't you know that we're all internet superheros around here!?

Thanks for the clarification. I know my Passat has split engine codes, but it always prompts me when I'm looking up parts online - I *assumed* the part-jockey behind the counter would be prompted when he enters it into the website just like I do at home.

 

[cavmedic]

Negative Ghostriders - depends on if its a DOHC or SOHC engine. Labor guide give 4.0 labor hours for DOHC ( 24v ) engine spark plugs and 3.0 for SOHC ( 12v ) engines. 12v has cap and rotor 24v does not.

So book time 3-4 hours. Granted it probably wouldn't take a seasoned mechanic with all the specialized tools that long, but it is still insane . I thought my exploder was bad when it took us 2 hours . 1.75 hours of that job was the one in the passenger rear you had to go in through the fender well....

 

[ARFlyer]

Negative Ghostriders - depends on if its a DOHC or SOHC engine. Labor guide give 4.0 labor hours for DOHC ( 24v ) engine spark plugs and 3.0 for SOHC ( 12v ) engines. 12v has cap and rotor 24v does not.

I think I have the DOHC engine. Because last night I discovered I don't have a cap and rotor. So 4 hours to change a spark plug?

 

[alfadog]

I think I have the DOHC engine. Because last night I discovered I don't have a cap and rotor. So 4 hours to change a spark plug?

No, a number of plugs and wires and ??

 

[weilke]

Why would you want to change the spark plugs on an engine with electronic ignition ? They are basically lifetime parts. If they fail, it is not a catastrophic failure, you may get a rough running engine and throw a cathalytic converter code. If that happens, you can still replace them.

 

[dell30rb]

Well my dad and a friend are going to show me how to replace everything this weekend. They both agree that I need to learn how to do this anyway. I will go to the parts store tomorrow.

My dad said I need to watch the oil light for the next few weeks. Since the shop didn't find the problem.

Thanks guys for your comments. I like to ask around for thoughts before I do something that is expensive or time consuming.

Good for you.

$917 for plugs wires cap and rotor. That's about $100 worth of parts and 1.5hrs labor.

 

[dell30rb]

Why would you want to change the spark plugs on an engine with electronic ignition ? They are basically lifetime parts. If they fail, it is not a catastrophic failure, you may get a rough running engine and throw a cathalytic converter code. If that happens, you can still replace them.

They wear.

You can buy the nice ones and they will last around 100k.

 

[AggieMike88]

My comments in bold

This is as listed on the technician summary

(R) = Recommended (M) = Maintance Proactive Care

Car: 1997 Mitsubishi Montero Sport V6 3.0 L 2x4
Miles: 155,5401k

Sounds like a typical 97 Montero Sport to me!

Problems:

Front Brakes: 8MM
Rear Brakes: 60%
Brake Fluid: 10CPPM
Coolant: -34 8PH

Front right wheel bearing has play.
Repack or replacement depending on condition (R) $313.61

Salvage yard spindle: ~75.00 and should have a very good hub/bearing still on it. Repack the bearing advisable (to know it's been done) but not critical. Time to switch out, about an 1.0-1.25 hrs. Call it $90 labor. $165 total.

Spark plugs and wires, cap, rotor by miles (due at 120k)
Wires appear to be original equipment (R) $917.77

This is something you can totally do yourself with the correct tools. Cost will be about $100-ish (if even that) and an afternoon of your time.

Car pulls to left. Alignment (R) $95

No argument to doing an alignment. This will prevent exce$$ive tire wear and could prevent a safety issue.

Car idles rough. Also feels like missing at times
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Switching out the sparkplugs might fix this.

Air bag light on
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Diff Service by miles (R) $121.90

Get more info before agreeing to this. Then if you do it, get documentation they did what they said they would do. This can be one area where they charge mucho dinero for just replacing the gear oil fluid, or worse, topping off the fluid

Fuel Induction by miles (M) $118

What is getting fixed here? Fuel induction can be too wide of an area not to know what they are addressing here.

Fuel Filter by miles (M) $172.29

If this is the inline filter at within the engine compartment, this is a less than $25 part that you can switch out yourself.

Batt failed load test 10.03V while starter engaged
Replace $172.28

I think the batt price is kind of high. I can replace that myself.

It is very high. Used batteries at the salvage yards can be found $20-45 depending on which yard, and length of warranty. New Batteries about $100 or so.

 

[AggieMike88]

The newer 3V F150 is even worse since you have to be incredibly careful to avoid busting threads.

/evil_laugh All the better for me. I've sold more than one engine because of that. Sales on the 3valve 5.4L remain good, and it's about $2595 with 1yr warranty on each sale.

 

[AggieMike88]

Both my dad and his cousin think that both engines were produced for the '97 model. Is there any reasons why Mitsubishi would jump to new system within the same year?

No, just one version of the 6-cyl 3.0L. See attached for the interchange info.

 

[AggieMike88]

I think I have the DOHC engine. Because last night I discovered I don't have a cap and rotor. So 4 hours to change a spark plug?

Nope... SOHC engine...

 

[Henning]

/evil_laugh All the better for me. I've sold more than one engine because of that. Sales on the 3valve 5.4L remain good, and it's about $2595 with 1yr warranty on each sale.

No wonder you want to get away from the J word and use the R.

 

[weilke]

They wear.

You can buy the nice ones and they will last around 100k.

Sure they do, but for some reason they last very long in cars with DI systems. On my Subaru, at 120k while it was in the shop for the timing belts, I had them replace the spark plugs. They were the original NGKs from the factory and except for the electrodes being rounded, they looked ok. Those ignitions dont really care what the gap is, so if it opens up a bit due to spark erosion it doesn't cause any issues with the engines ability to run.

Timing belts are really the only part you have to replace on a schedule. Once you are past 120k, everything else can be done 'on condition'. If it leaks, replace a seal, if it runs rough tune-up the ignition etc. To spend 4hrs to replace a set of probably perfectly sufficient sparkplugs is just nuts. Someone mentioned that it requires taking off the intake manifold, the chances of mucking something up for no good reason are higher than the odds of engine damage from a worn out sparkplug.

 

[dell30rb]

Worn electrodes is a great reason to replace your plugs

 

[weilke]

Worn electrodes is a great reason to replace your plugs

Why, if it still works ?

 

[fgcason]

Who spends four hours replacing a set of spark plugs?

Considering the crap design of some vehicles which are designed to be assembled, not maintained, you might be stuck with that.

The rest of the time it depends on how meticulous you are as a mechanic. The more pieces that come off, the more pieces that need to come off...and of course once those are off......... The next thing you know, you've done a complete restoration.

Why, if it still works ?

Reliability when you need reliability over convenience or laziness.

 

[weilke]

Reliability when you need reliability over convenience or laziness.

It's a V6. They won't go out all at the same time, may run a bit rought at idle or make less power under full load, but worn electrodes on a multi-cylinder engine won't cause it to seize in place.