Need some Outside Car Mechanic Advice

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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ARFlyer
Coming back from a road trip a few days ago I found my oil light flickering at a stop light. So I took it in to a local shop today to get it looked at. By the end of the day they found nothing but went ahead tightened my A/C belt, changed my oil anyway and did what they call a L1 Maintenance Package. They found a few things they said needed to be fixed sometime in the near future. So I am going to list the problems and the price. Please comment on the problem and the price. I want to see if it is reasonable before I take it back in.

This is as listed on the technician summary

(R) = Recommended (M) = Maintance Proactive Care

Car: 1997 Mitsubishi Montero Sport V6 3.0 L 2x4
Miles: 155,5401k

Problems:

Front Brakes: 8MM
Rear Brakes: 60%
Brake Fluid: 10CPPM
Coolant: -34 8PH

Front right wheel bearing has play.
Repack or replacement depending on condition (R) $313.61

Spark plugs and wires, cap, rotor by miles (due at 120k)
Wires appear to be original equipment (R) $917.77

Car pulls to left. Alignment (R) $95

Car idles rough. Also feels like missing at times
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Air bag light on
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Diff Service by miles (R) $121.90

Fuel Induction by miles (M) $118

Fuel Filter by miles (M) $172.29

Batt failed load test 10.03V while starter engaged
Replace $172.28

I think the batt price is kind of high. I can replace that myself.
 
In our shop, that all seems a bit high. Well some of it is really high. As far as recommending those services, it's probably right out of the owners manual. We would recommend the same. However, I will say prices do vary greatly by region.
 
Wow! Those seem really high to me.
I guessing not more than $150.00 worth of parts total.
Nearly a grand for a tune up?
Go to www.CarTalk.com and look at the section for local mechanics.
I think you could get everything for 1/3 to 1/2 this estimate.
Dave
 
plugs, wires, cap, and rotor for 900? YGBSM

Front wheel bearing for 300? Is this a rear wheel drive? If so, another YGBSM

Easy enough to get a four wheel alignment on a four-wheel drive vehicle around here for 80. Not much different but still high.
 
d.grimm said:
Wow! Those seem really high to me.
I guessing not more than $150.00 worth of parts total.
Nearly a grand for a tune up?
Go to www.CarTalk.com and look at the section for local mechanics.
I think you could get everything for 1/3 to 1/2 this estimate.
Dave
Click to expand...

Interesting the shop I took it too is not listed.

My dad about spilled his drink laughing when I said $917 for spark plugs.
 
Is your vehicle all proprietary parts that grown on a special rare tree in Mitsubishi land?

$172 for a $50 battery? That's flat out criminal.
$917 for spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor? Seriously? Go to your local autoparts store and get them to price that hardware for you. Generic spark plug wires are in the $35 range. Plugs are $2-$8 a pop. Caps and rotors are not magic impossible to install items, they're only slightly more difficult than changing a light bulb. That's about $50-60 in parts total if it's not some kind of specialty one off design nonsense rotor cap. They are charging you about $850 in labor for 20 minutes of work IF it's done right and not just tossed in carelessly. That's, um, $2,550.00 per hour labor rates..plus tax.

The rest of the list is highly suspect and likely criminal as well.

Boogalooed is one word that comes to mind. Robbery is another.
 
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fgcason said:
Is your vehicle all proprietary parts that grown on a special rare tree in Mitsubishi land?

$172 for a $50 battery? That's flat out criminal.
$917 for spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor? Seriously? Go to your local autoparts store and get them to price that hardware for you. Generic spark plug wires are in the $35 range. Plugs are $2-$8 a pop. Caps and rotors are not magic impossible to install items, they're only slightly more difficult than changing a light bulb. That's about $50-60 in parts total if it's not some kind of specialty one off design nonsense rotor cap. They are charging you about $850 in labor for 20 minutes of work IF it's done right and not just tossed in carelessly. That's, um, $2,550.00 per hour labor rates..plus tax.

The rest of the list is highly suspect and likely criminal as well.

Boogalooed is one word that comes to mind. Robbery is another.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to do all of this myself without having to touch the computer? I have only worked on lawn mowers and simple tractor engines.
 
To pile on to the items that have already been listed as being outrageously overpriced, the 'Differential Service' consists of changing about $20 worth of gear oil - oh wait, it's RWD - $10 worth of gear oil. And a $172 fuel filter better come with $150 worth of free gas.
 
ARFlyer said:
Is it possible to do all of this myself without having to touch the computer? I have only worked on lawn mowers and simple tractor engines.
Click to expand...

There is no computer involved in servicing wheel bearings and changing spark plugs and fuel filter. It is possible for a competent do-it-yourselfer to learn to do these. In many cases you can find a YouTube video showing you how to do exactly the task that you need to do. You can also search for a forum for your make and model of vehicle and ask for tips there.

On some cars the fuel filter is installed inside the fuel tank and that is difficult, and on some a few of the spark plugs can be very hard to reach. Others can be very easy.
 
ARFlyer said:
Is it possible to do all of this myself without having to touch the computer? I have only worked on lawn mowers and simple tractor engines.
Click to expand...

If you can work on a tractor engine, you can do it. A spark plug is just a spark plug. A spark plug wire is just a piece of wire that plugs in on both ends. If you can open your car door on your own, you can change the distributor cap and rotor.
 
Bottom line. That shop is looking to make big money at your expense. Seriously dude, if half the things listed were actually a problem, I'd fix them for you myself for the cost of the parts at Autozone and a 12 pack.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Bottom line. That shop is looking to make big money at your expense. Seriously dude, if half the things listed were actually a problem, I'd fix them for you myself for the cost of the parts at Autozone and a 12 pack.
Click to expand...

Well my dad and a friend are going to show me how to replace everything this weekend. They both agree that I need to learn how to do this anyway. I will go to the parts store tomorrow.

My dad said I need to watch the oil light for the next few weeks. Since the shop didn't find the problem.

Thanks guys for your comments. I like to ask around for thoughts before I do something that is expensive or time consuming.
 
You need an airplane. Cars are obviously getting too expensive to maintain.
 
ARFlyer said:
Well my dad and a friend are going to show me how to replace everything this weekend. They both agree that I need to learn how to do this anyway. I will go to the parts store tomorrow.

My dad said I need to watch the oil light for the next few weeks. Since the shop didn't find the problem.

Thanks guys for your comments. I like to ask around for thoughts before I do something that is expensive or time consuming.
Click to expand...

Good for your dad and friend. Learning about how things work is always a good thing.
 
I can not speak for all of those things , but
does it even have a cap and rotor and a distributor? .... Some of those have coil packs , and get spark from the crank sensor and cam sensor.


Wheel bearing may be tough without a press. You can press them manually , but you need a large socket ( diameter of the bearing to tap in or some brass or other soft metal in the diameter of the bearing to tap in. You may opt for the hub replacement. I just did a front wb on my Trailblazer and the hub was about 120 bucks. Granted it was a 4wd , but it was easier than messing with bearings and risking screwing up the anti lock sensors.

Breaks are easy , rotors if needed are easy.

You may want to jump onto a Montero forum and research this a bit prior to just diving in.

http://m.mitsubishiforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14







 
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I would be suspect on the wheel bearing though. Typically your front end play is from ball joints. Wheel bearing issues are typical of a growling noise that is more pronounced when turning in one direction and quieting down in the other. Like hearing this growling noise when turning left but not turning right.


On a quick google search ,
to swap the plugs , You have to remove the exhause manifolds and a I believe you also have to remove the air intake and the throttle body.
Click to expand...

This is not like swapping plugs on your fathers Oldsmobile .
 
cavmedic said:
I would be suspect on the wheel bearing though. Typically your front end play is from ball joints.
Click to expand...

Typically your end play is the shop boogalooing you for something that is not worn in the first place when out of nowhere they come up with a list of problems totally unrelated to the original problem that you took it in for.

When you take a vehicle in for an oil light coming on and they come up with wheel bearings, brakes, spark plugs/wires, fuel filters and nothing on the list has anything to do with the oil system... Think about it.

$1,910.85 for a preliminary repair list (and you just know they are going to find lots more problems when they start opening it up) for a light that is totally unrelated to everything they came up with. B.F.S. In the medieval ages, that shop would have been burned to the ground and the people running the shop would have had their heads put up on pikes as a warning to others about bad behavior and unethical business practices.
 
If you can fly a plane you can learn to work on your car. Go get a good repair manual and fallow what your dad says. Getting gang raped by mechanics with no integrity can seriously cut into your flying budget.
 
cavmedic said:
This is not like swapping plugs on your fathers Oldsmobile .
Click to expand...

There is truth in this statement. There is a car (forget which - an AMC product IIRC) in which they sandwiched a straight 6 engine in a spot made for a four, resulting in the need to hoist the engine off its mounts in order to get to the rear spark plug.

I would spend some time on the chat group referenced above to find out if there are any other hidden nightmares in what everyone else has diagnosed a simple repair job.

On the problem of the repair shop diagnosing everything else but the problem for which you brought the car in, that does seem _very_ suspect. However, have you been "on top" of the maintenance for this car, or is it neglected? Any of these items covered by an inspection sticker inspection?

Bottom line is you need an impartial inspection of the car. Hard to find, but look for a "grey beard" mechanic willing to do the inspection for a few bucks.

-Skip
 
I have a 3000GT VR-4, which has more or less the same 6G72 engine.

The oil pumps in the 6G72s are notorious for going out, and they recommend replacement about 120k miles typically. I replaced mine at 147k, pressure is much higher than it was.

However, if you've been getting a flickering oil light, you probably have toasted your main bearings (another thing these engines are known for).

I put a lot of work into my VR4 in the form of new oil pump, new timing belt, valve seals, new turbos, new lifters, etc. etc. It's all doable, but it is not a fast job, especially for a first timer. This comes as someone who was a former Jaguar tech. I did it because I like the VR4 and it's worth it for me. For a Montero, it might be a bit harder to justify.

You can start out by running 20W-50 oil if you're not doing so already (that's what I run in mine). That may help with your oil pressure.
 
ARFlyer said:
Coming back from a road trip a few days ago I found my oil light flickering at a stop light. So I took it in to a local shop today to get it looked at. By the end of the day they found nothing but went ahead tightened my A/C belt, changed my oil anyway and did what they call a L1 Maintenance Package. They found a few things they said needed to be fixed sometime in the near future. So I am going to list the problems and the price. Please comment on the problem and the price. I want to see if it is reasonable before I take it back in.

This is as listed on the technician summary

(R) = Recommended (M) = Maintance Proactive Care

Car: 1997 Mitsubishi Montero Sport V6 3.0 L 2x4
Miles: 155,5401k

Problems:

Front Brakes: 8MM
Rear Brakes: 60%
Brake Fluid: 10CPPM
Coolant: -34 8PH

Front right wheel bearing has play.
Repack or replacement depending on condition (R) $313.61

Spark plugs and wires, cap, rotor by miles (due at 120k)
Wires appear to be original equipment (R) $917.77

Car pulls to left. Alignment (R) $95

Car idles rough. Also feels like missing at times
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Air bag light on
Diagnose (R) $0.00

Diff Service by miles (R) $121.90

Fuel Induction by miles (M) $118

Fuel Filter by miles (M) $172.29

Batt failed load test 10.03V while starter engaged
Replace $172.28

I think the batt price is kind of high. I can replace that myself.
Click to expand...

Make sure it has oil in it and put a real gauge on.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I have a 3000GT VR-4, which has more or less the same 6G72 engine.

The oil pumps in the 6G72s are notorious for going out, and they recommend replacement about 120k miles typically. I replaced mine at 147k, pressure is much higher than it was.

However, if you've been getting a flickering oil light, you probably have toasted your main bearings (another thing these engines are known for).

I put a lot of work into my VR4 in the form of new oil pump, new timing belt, valve seals, new turbos, new lifters, etc. etc. It's all doable, but it is not a fast job, especially for a first timer. This comes as someone who was a former Jaguar tech. I did it because I like the VR4 and it's worth it for me. For a Montero, it might be a bit harder to justify.

You can start out by running 20W-50 oil if you're not doing so already (that's what I run in mine). That may help with your oil pressure.
Click to expand...

Well the light has not come on since the first time the other day. It happend at every stop until I got to the house. So about 8 miles. I pulled over and checked the oil level after the first time and saw it was abtwt low. The engine eats oil like its candy, so I always keep 2qt in the back. I did not even know the light worked, because there has been a few times when the dip stick was dry and the only reason I caught it in time was I heard the oil lifters crying. I have watched the water temp gauge and havn't noticed any atypical rises or quicker then normal warmup times. They put in 5w50 oil when they did the oil change.

This is why my dad said I need to keep a hard eye on my oil light and level.

Also I don't know if this is an important clue. When ever I add oil and the engine is hot I get noticeable steam/whiteish smoke. It's not thick but like its coming from a hot coffee cup.
 
ARFlyer said:
Well the light has not come on since the first time the other day. It happend at every stop until I got to the house. So about 8 miles. I pulled over and checked the oil level after the first time and saw it was abtwt low. The engine eats oil like its candy, so I always keep 2qt in the back. I did not even know the light worked, because there has been a few times when the dip stick was dry and the only reason I caught it in time was I heard the oil lifters crying. I have watched the water temp gauge and havn't noticed any atypical rises or quicker then normal warmup times. They put in 5w50 oil when they did the oil change.

This is why my dad said I need to keep a hard eye on my oil light and level.

Also I don't know if this is an important clue. When ever I add oil and the engine is hot I get noticeable steam/whiteish smoke. It's not thick but like its coming from a hot coffee cup.
Click to expand...
That's blowby - Exhaust gasses that are leaking past the rings along with some oil droplets / smoke.

Sounds like you have a tired engine...

If the light came on after a long run on the highway, the oil was probably hotter than usual (and you have worn bearings or a weak oil pump).
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
That's blowby - Exhaust gasses that are leaking past the rings along with some oil droplets / smoke.

Sounds like you have a tired engine...

If the light came on after a long run on the highway, the oil was probably hotter than usual (and you have worn bearings or a weak oil pump).
Click to expand...

How much more time do you think I have in the engine? I will be driving back and forth from Little Rock to. Arkadelphia about twice a week for CFI training. So about 130 miles round trip in the dead of a hot southern summer.
 
ARFlyer said:
How much more time do you think I have in the engine? I will be driving back and forth from Little Rock to. Arkadelphia about twice a week for CFI training. So about 130 miles round trip in the dead of a hot southern summer.
Click to expand...

:dunno:

It's amazing how bad they can get and still keep running. Even beyond the point that bearings start knocking.

Don't let it run out of oil.
 
Is there a way to test if the oil pump, lifters are going? Splice in a oil pressure gauge?
 
ARFlyer said:
Is there a way to test if the oil pump, lifters are going? Splice in a oil pressure gauge?
Click to expand...

Yes, before you do or even believe you have the ability to consider anything you need to put an oil pressure gauge on it that is accurate down low. If it has 2psi at idle and comes right up to above 35 when you're running it, no worries, install gauge and keep driving.

The old straight 6 Nissan cum Mercedes 230 SOHC engine they replaced with the 280 and 220D for the cabs; all those cars from either maker using any variant of it would sit with the oil pressure on "0" at stop lights, says right there in the manual, "Normal for idle speed".

You don't always need pressure, most of the work is done by flow anyway.
 
I startedmy working life in 1976 as lot boy for Grosse Brothers cars in St Louis; I was not quite 11. I have been operating and repairing vehicles of my own and for others since. In that time I have diagnosed hundreds of flashing oil light problems, likely thousands. I can count on one hand the times it didn't come down to the engine not having enough oil.

I can remember a funny one where I added 7 quarts to a 390 Ford and it still wasn't showing. The engine was full of solid cake sludge that trapped it.
 
I just did a quick nasty kbb value. Retail in good condition is $2143.00 thats retail. Trade in around 1500. You basically have a c150 with a runout engine. If it were mine and i had any idea of engine problems....and it sounds like maybe you do, unless i was in love with the car i would punt. I would think about not putting more money in it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
ARFlyer said:
Well my dad and a friend are going to show me how to replace everything this weekend. They both agree that I need to learn how to do this anyway. I will go to the parts store tomorrow.

My dad said I need to watch the oil light for the next few weeks. Since the shop didn't find the problem.

Thanks guys for your comments. I like to ask around for thoughts before I do something that is expensive or time consuming.
Click to expand...
The oil light should be a concern. It could be nothing more than a defective sender (check with a test pressure gauge), but it could be an indication that the oil pump is failing (not real likely) or that the engine is "sludged up" (typically requires oil pan removal to cure). But whatever the reason if you're really experiencing low oil presser (vs a sender problem) further operation is likely to appreciably shorten the life of the engine.
 
Skip Miller said:
There is truth in this statement. There is a car (forget which - an AMC product IIRC) in which they sandwiched a straight 6 engine in a spot made for a four, resulting in the need to hoist the engine off its mounts in order to get to the rear spark plug.
Click to expand...
I think this was the Chevy Citation (aka Chevy Frustration) circa 1981.
 
Skip Miller said:
There is truth in this statement. There is a car (forget which - an AMC product IIRC) in which they sandwiched a straight 6 engine in a spot made for a four, resulting in the need to hoist the engine off its mounts in order to get to the rear spark plug.
Click to expand...

ah - sort of like the late model Ford F-350 and F-450 Powerstrokes, where standard procedure for just about any maintenance action on that engine starts with ...
1. Remove cab...

Ken Ibold said:
I think this was the Chevy Citation (aka Chevy Frustration) circa 1981.
Click to expand...

There was an early to mid-70s Mercury (Comet, maybe?) that shop procedure to change the spark plugs the first time included a template for cutting an access hole in the wheel well or firewall to reach the rear passenger side plug, and a cover plate to put back on it.
 
mikeinbama said:
I just did a quick nasty kbb value. Retail in good condition is $2143.00 thats retail. Trade in around 1500. You basically have a c150 with a runout engine.
Click to expand...

No. He's got a few minor problems, if that, and a shop that wants to rape him to the tune of $2500 per hour for shop labor rates..for stuff that's not even vaguely related to the reason he took it in to them in the first place..which they are not going to fix or even determine the cause of the original problem. It's the equivalent of fixing a landing light on your c150 by replacing the tire for $24,000 and not fixing the light that's out.

Most likely he just needs a trip to the local autoparts store with $100, a few wrenches and screwdrivers at home, and knowing where the hood release lever is located.
 
OP if you're engine is thirsty for oil, use something thicker than that 5w they put in. Chances are your rings and valve seals are getting close to their retirement, and using a thicker oil (bigger number before the "w") can help prolong it. You will notice at least marginally higher oil pressure (barring pump failure/failing). Again, this is a band aid, and it could last another 100k, or another 100.
So far as the quotes from that shop are concerned, go someplace else. Much of the mx you can do yourself, plugs wires, cap, brakes, even the front wheel bearing/hub assembly. You will be amazed at how much money you will save doing it yourself, not to mention learning in the process to be a keen observer in future diagnoses.
Hope I helped...
 
If your car is pulling to the left..I'd take a very very close look at your tires. It's likely that the alignment itself is not going to fix it and your tires are worn causing the pull. The alignment being wrong might have screwed your tires up..but fixing that can't fix your tires.
 
gkainz said:
There was an early to mid-70s Mercury (Comet, maybe?) that shop procedure to change the spark plugs the first time included a template for cutting an access hole in the wheel well or firewall to reach the rear passenger side plug, and a cover plate to put back on it.
Click to expand...

97 Explorer - go through the wheel well for the passenger side plugs. It's all plastic so just pop the fasteners and git'er done. New fasteners should be purchased when buying plugs...
 
fgcason said:
No. He's got a few minor problems, if that, and a shop that wants to rape him to the tune of $2500 per hour for shop labor rates..for stuff that's not even vaguely related to the reason he took it in to them in the first place..which they are not going to fix or even determine the cause of the original problem. It's the equivalent of fixing a landing light on your c150 by replacing the tire for $24,000 and not fixing the light that's out.

Most likely he just needs a trip to the local autoparts store with $100, a few wrenches and screwdrivers at home, and knowing where the hood release lever is located.
Click to expand...

155k and a flickering oil light means low oil pressure. The engine is worn out. Not the same as a landing light. It may go a bit longer, but I'm betting not much. And using a higher viscosity oil is a bandaid on cancer.
 
gismo said:
it could be an indication that the oil pump is failing (not real likely) or that the engine is "sludged up" (typically requires oil pan removal to cure).
Click to expand...

These engines are known for oil pump issues, less for sludge (although that's possible). With 155k on it, I would be surprised if the oil pump didn't need replacement. I don't know what Mitsubishi did wrong with these oil pumps, but it was something bad.

Although if it "eats oil like candy" I'd be concerned and say just buy another car. Even when my VR-4's engine was smoking like my first boss's dad (who cut down to 4 packs a day from 6), it didn't consume much at all.
 
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