Need help planning a VFR trip to the Aleutians

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MountainDude

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MountainDude
- Plan to fly from the PNW to Homer and back this summer (likely June, as it is statistically the best month for VFR in Alaska).
- Two people in a Cessna 182 with long range tanks, BRS, life raft, PFDs, PLBs, emergency supplies...
- VFR pilot with 700 hrs total time. Flown previously to Canada, Alaska, Caribbean...

Thinking of flying:
- Homer to King Salmon (PAKN), 1.5 hrs, fuel up.
- PAKN to Dutch Harbor, 4hrs, where we would spend a night.
- The next day we would fly to Nikolski, where we would turn around, then stop at Dutch Harbor and PAKN for fuel.

We would only need 2 days of clear weather.
Questions:
- If the satellite image shows no clouds for the 2 days, and the forecast says VFR, how likely is it that we will get socked in for a few days? People talk about the weather in the Aleutians like it has a mind of its own, so slightly concerned.
- Are there any other airports with 100LL between King Salmon and Dutch Harbor?
- Any other information that we should know about the route, staying overnight in Dutch Harbor...
 
The Aleutian chain is VERY long. May I ask the draw or reason for the trip? One could head out without feeling the need to really stretch it, yes epic trip. Seems like getting to Cold Bay or a little past would be monumental.

You’d have plenty of daylight to work with. The thought of the high priced 100LL makes my wallet hurt.

I did fly the Al-Can back in the day, great trip. I always kept a suitable airport in the back pocket, diverted or landed short as required.
 
Not that you would do this from Homer, but if you start further north on the Kenai Peninsula (e.g. Kenai, PAEN) the flight through Lake Clark Pass and along Lake Clark to King Salmon is pretty spectacular. We took the float trip from King Salmon to Katmai National Park then the short hike to Brooks Falls for the grizzly bear/salmon viewing, which was fabulous.

Rapidly changing weather is a reality in that area. Just have plenty of options open.
 
How will you get from PNW to Homer, AK? Going up the coast through Ketchikan?
 
MountainDude said:
- Plan to fly from the PNW to Homer and back this summer (likely June, as it is statistically the best month for VFR in Alaska).
- Two people in a Cessna 182 with long range tanks, BRS, life raft, PFDs, PLBs, emergency supplies...
- VFR pilot with 700 hrs total time. Flown previously to Canada, Alaska, Caribbean...

Thinking of flying:
- Homer to King Salmon (PAKN), 1.5 hrs, fuel up.
- PAKN to Dutch Harbor, 4hrs, where we would spend a night.
- The next day we would fly to Nikolski, where we would turn around, then stop at Dutch Harbor and PAKN for fuel.

We would only need 2 days of clear weather.
Questions:
- If the satellite image shows no clouds for the 2 days, and the forecast says VFR, how likely is it that we will get socked in for a few days? People talk about the weather in the Aleutians like it has a mind of its own, so slightly concerned.
- Are there any other airports with 100LL between King Salmon and Dutch Harbor?
- Any other information that we should know about the route, staying overnight in Dutch Harbor...
Click to expand...
Why Nikolski?
 
luvflyin said:
Why Nikolski?
Click to expand...
my guess looking at the chart, is that the leg to the next airport out is 201NM an just a few small rugged looking islands between with little to no civilization...so it's about as far out the chain as you can go within practical reason.
epic trip. Good luck pulling it together!!
 
sourdough44 said:
The Aleutian chain is VERY long. May I ask the draw or reason for the trip? One could head out without feeling the need to really stretch it, yes epic trip. Seems like getting to Cold Bay or a little past would be monumental.

You’d have plenty of daylight to work with. The thought of the high priced 100LL makes my wallet hurt.

I did fly the Al-Can back in the day, great trip. I always kept a suitable airport in the back pocket, diverted or landed short as required.
Click to expand...

I find the scenery of the Aleutians gorgeous. Massive volcanoes rising from small islands, rugged coastline...
 
dbahn said:
Not that you would do this from Homer, but if you start further north on the Kenai Peninsula (e.g. Kenai, PAEN) the flight through Lake Clark Pass and along Lake Clark to King Salmon is pretty spectacular. We took the float trip from King Salmon to Katmai National Park then the short hike to Brooks Falls for the grizzly bear/salmon viewing, which was fabulous.

Rapidly changing weather is a reality in that area. Just have plenty of options open.
Click to expand...

We may detour through that area then. I will research it. Thank you.
 
luvflyin said:
Why Nikolski?
Click to expand...

It has a couple of beautiful volcanoes that I want to see from the air. Beyond Nikolski, the distance over water becomes too long and the scenery is not as grand, so I decided we should turn around there.
 
Brad W said:
my guess looking at the chart, is that the leg to the next airport out is 201NM an just a few small rugged looking islands between with little to no civilization...so it's about as far out the chain as you can go within practical reason.
epic trip. Good luck pulling it together!!
Click to expand...

That is exactly my logic. Anything west of Nikolski does not pass my risk/benefit threshold.
Thank you.
 
According to the documentaries I've seen, the Japanese bombed Dutch Harbor during WW2, although the ground invasions were on more westerly islands.
 
ooooo boy.... This is quite the trip. I will just say that I, and many many other Alaskan pilots, will suggest you visit some of our other very gorgeous areas that are slightly less likely to try to kill you. If the weather says it's supposed to be clear that is exactly zero guarantee you don't have clouds and horrendous winds for days. The winds in that area are often times greater than forecasted and weather forecasting in general is very... sparse. There's a reason Deadliest Catch is based out of Dutch. I don't think I can overstate how crappy the weather can be out there.

However if you still would like to pursue this, you'll need to call up Delta Western in Dutch and make sure they will have fuel for you - do not rely on what the internet says about fuel availability, talk to a real human there. They might need to toss a drum or two onto a barge to get it to you. I think it's Frosty Fuels in Cold Bay that has avgas. Again you will need to call people up, both long before you start the trip and when you are in King Salmon. Most people in that neighborhood are flying turbines so they are used to people needing JetA. Port Heiden may have fuel as well.

If you make it to Dutch, make sure you have stout tie down lines. Stay at the Grand Aleutian. If you can stay there Wednesday night - they have a seafood buffet that night and you don't want to miss it. There was a literal mountain of crab.
 
amox said:
There's a reason Deadliest Catch is based out of Dutch.
Click to expand...

Because that's where the crabs are.?? :lol::lol:

I have flown all over Alaska but the farthest I have been down the Aleutian chain was Pilot Point. I flew out of King Salmon for a month in the summer, July-August '98 according to my log book, and during that time I had to circumnavigate a few showers but nothing worth worrying about. I do remember the weather was pleasant, plus some good seafood available in town.

One of my destinations on my bucket list was Attu, but I guess that isn't going to happen now.

I second calling ahead for fuel availability.
 
Not really an Alaska expert, but what flying I did up there led me to believe that the tanks should always be full when you took off from an isolated airport, as you could not be sure if your destination would continue to be reachable. The airport that you just left might not have suitable conditions to land. Plenty of gas is the cheapest insurance in that part of the world.

I am very envious, some of my friends have been "Out there", and complained about the price of gas at Cold Bay.
 
MountainDude said:
We may detour through that area then. I will research it. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if you're flying up the coast then a Cordova/Seward/Kenai course is pretty scenic and it gets you right across from the Lake Clark pass. As you know most of those mountain passes have webcams that can be a big help.
 
One of my favorite old books is Glacier Pilot about Bob Reeve. He started the Aleutian Airlines and flew the islands during WW2. Some of the most violent winds and unpredictable weather in the world on that island chain.
 
amox said:
ooooo boy.... This is quite the trip. I will just say that I, and many many other Alaskan pilots, will suggest you visit some of our other very gorgeous areas that are slightly less likely to try to kill you. If the weather says it's supposed to be clear that is exactly zero guarantee you don't have clouds and horrendous winds for days. The winds in that area are often times greater than forecasted and weather forecasting in general is very... sparse. There's a reason Deadliest Catch is based out of Dutch. I don't think I can overstate how crappy the weather can be out there.

However if you still would like to pursue this, you'll need to call up Delta Western in Dutch and make sure they will have fuel for you - do not rely on what the internet says about fuel availability, talk to a real human there. They might need to toss a drum or two onto a barge to get it to you. I think it's Frosty Fuels in Cold Bay that has avgas. Again you will need to call people up, both long before you start the trip and when you are in King Salmon. Most people in that neighborhood are flying turbines so they are used to people needing JetA. Port Heiden may have fuel as well.

If you make it to Dutch, make sure you have stout tie down lines. Stay at the Grand Aleutian. If you can stay there Wednesday night - they have a seafood buffet that night and you don't want to miss it. There was a literal mountain of crab.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This is super helpful. Willco.
 
I was there in August once at Adak. Out of 30 days about 3 were marginal VFR. The other 27 were hard IFR. In the goo at 200 feet. Out at 35,000. If you go in the water it’s over.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to the documentaries I've seen, the Japanese bombed Dutch Harbor during WW2, although the ground invasions were on more westerly islands.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_E._Jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amchitka_Air_Force_Base

I did a lot of research on the Aleutians Campaign writing my first book, Liberator Legacy. The US Army hacked out an airfield on Amchitka Island in the dead of Alaskan winter. Ships sank, sailors drowned, and a small contingent of engineers, soldiers, and sailors carved a two-mile-long runway from the snow and ice of a brutal Alaskan winter. Brigadier General Lloyd E. Jones commanded Amchitka Army Airfield throughout the war. Fascinating story of very brave and dedicated men.
 
Domenick said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_E._Jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amchitka_Air_Force_Base

I did a lot of research on the Aleutians Campaign writing my first book, Liberator Legacy. The US Army hacked out an airfield on Amchitka Island in the dead of Alaskan winter. Ships sank, sailors drowned, and a small contingent of engineers, soldiers, and sailors carved a two-mile-long runway from the snow and ice of a brutal Alaskan winter. Brigadier General Lloyd E. Jones commanded Amchitka Army Airfield throughout the war. Fascinating story of very brave and dedicated men.
Click to expand...
Google satellite view still shows an Amchitka Air Force Base runway, but says it's permanently closed.
 
I can very well understand the adventure that a such a trip would hold for any of us. But if the weather is that capricious, let it be the incentive to get your instrument rating.
 
MajorTurbulence said:
I can very well understand the adventure that a such a trip would hold for any of us. But if the weather is that capricious, let it be the incentive to get your instrument rating.
Click to expand...

Even if I had IR, I would still want very good VMC.
 
Might also consider:
- your own (hand crank) pump; (transfer fuel from drum to aircraft)
- “PAKN to Dutch Harbor, 4hrs”
Backup plan if 10 minutes to destination, PADU becomes unavailable (disabled aircraft, wx, etc)
- Unplanned repair(s)
 
He's mentioned a few times he wants to make the trip for the scenery, so just my guess.
 
Absolutely nuts doing that without an instrument rating. While I haven't done Alaska, I've flown Iceland many times. I would think similar conditions. If you don't like the weather forecast, wait five minutes. And as a popular trans-Atlantic stopover, I'm sure Iceland has far more sophisticated weather forecasting than the Aleutians. If you do take the trip as a VFR-only pilot, please PM me with your personal information so I can take out a life insurance policy on you. I could use an easy million dollars ;-)
 
David Loftus said:
Absolutely nuts doing that without an instrument rating. While I haven't done Alaska, I've flown Iceland many times. I would think similar conditions. If you don't like the weather forecast, wait five minutes. And as a popular trans-Atlantic stopover, I'm sure Iceland has far more sophisticated weather forecasting than the Aleutians. If you do take the trip as a VFR-only pilot, please PM me with your personal information so I can take out a life insurance policy on you. I could use an easy million dollars ;-)
Click to expand...

For those who insist that the only way to make this kind of flight safely is to go IFR, they need to realize that even in June a lot of MEAs are at levels where icing is common and deadly, so without FIKI and two engines the risk often outweighs any perceived benefit.
 
dbahn said:
I was getting a VFR briefing around Kenai and told the briefer that I could go IFR. He immediately responded "You're not from around here, are you?" :)
Click to expand...


When I was flying out of Kotzebue and weather concerned me enough to get a weather briefing it would usually end with ''VFR not recommended''.

At which my reply would be, ''thanks, but I am going anyway''... :lol::lol:
 
dbahn said:
For those who insist that the only way to make this kind of flight safely is to go IFR, they need to realize that even in June a lot of MEAs are at levels where icing is common and deadly, so without FIKI and two engines the risk often outweighs any perceived benefit.
Click to expand...
While that is true, I would imagine if island hopping the Aleutians, there could be many times overwater that having the IR might be helpful if conditions encountered deteriorate. Having destination weather that would enable an IFR approach might be problematic for the reasons you’ve stated, but I would not be surprised if many of those island airports hugged the coastline.
 
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