[NA] Head injury while skiing

Helmets work, but not when you drill holes into them to attach a GoPro mount.
Read on Michael Schumacher's (7-times F1 world champion) skiing accident, whwre he fell trying to navigate some rocks. Still pretty much a vegetable out of public sight to this day. The opinion is that the changes he made to the helmet to attach the camera sent the impact forces straight to his skull.
Ski helmets are bump helmets at best. I doubt you can find anything in science to substantiate your comments. I quit skiing long ago but I use different helmets for different activities including flying, for which I have both bump and crash helmets. Neither would suffer from attaching a helmet cam.
 
Virginia Tech has done some interesting studies on how helmets protect participants in various activities. https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/

I always find discussions on personal safety interesting. I wear a helmet when snowboarding or mountain biking. For some reason I don’t wear a helmet when riding my beach cruiser around town. Played competitive rugby for years and the only protective gear involved was a mouth piece. I’ve split a couple helmets biking and seen friends get concussions while wearing helmets snowboarding and biking. So, my own perspectives on personal safety aren’t exactly consistent.
 
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Did a lot of skiing mid-80’s thru late 90’s nobody wore helmets then. If I ever get back into the sport, I will certainly wear a helmet.
I remember being on the lift in the late 90s, when snowboarding was really expanding, and saw a coworker slide out on some ice on his board and bounce his head off the ice. I bought a helmet later that week, been wearing one ever since. They're warm, hold your goggles, etc.
Also always wore a motorcycle helmet, even when riding a scooter around town. Helmet has saved my life twice on the street.
 
Depends on the kind of skiing you do. Nobody much worried about helmets for recreational skiers before a few high profile deaths (Sonny Bono and others). I remember blasting through wooded areas at a decent clip without thinking about what would happen if I hit a tree in the process.

Once GPS watches came out, I decided to wear one while skiing. I never really had any idea how fast I was going, but I got on a moderate incline and got into a tuck and went full out. Looking at the data dump, I was doing close to 55MPH during the bulk of the run. That was enough to get me thinking about protective gear right then and there.
 
close to 55MPH
Many years ago I hopped on a lift with two other guys who were skiing together.
Turns out they were FAA ground station repair/install guys; we chatted about their work with ILS/VOR/NDB (yeah it was a few years ago) transmitters, radar, etc and they invited me to join them. Nice guys out really enjoying the day.
The first run I thought they were skiing pretty damn fast, lost sight of them; we caught up on the next lift and I notice them passing a mickey around on the way up - they offered me a swig but I flew in (well, and I was skiing) so I declined.
The next run we agreed on an aggressive blue (no moguls but steep). I let them go first and damn! they were skiing the fall line, mostly in a tuck! They waited for me at the bottom, but I said I didn't want to hold them back and we said our goodbyes. I'd love to see what they clocked in at - or hear if they ever crashed. (all no helmets back then)
 
I roll my eyes when I see guys skiing with GoPros. Because what the Internet really needs is one more video of a groomed blue run at Vail.
Same reason I don’t have a GoPro on the Cherokee….how many videos do we need of Leadville flights?
 
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Ok, so let's switch it up a bit. How about helmets while flying? I have helmets for .mil flying (two actually, one for pointy-nose and one for helos) and considered getting one of those light civilian flight helmets when I had a tail-dragger, since I didn't entirely trust the structure to hold the harness and I figured off-airport landings and ground-loops might increase the odds of a head-strike inside the cockpit. My Cherokee has a shoulder-strap now, but I suspect it wouldn't stand up too much force. Of course, I'd feel like a dumbass wearing a helmet in a Cherokee, but I wonder if a reasonable argument couldn't be made for one in bad turbulence or to improve survivability in lower-energy crashes. I wonder what percentage of aviation fatalities are due to a head-injury which might have been survivable with a helmet?
I would guess that many injuries are chest/torso injuries from the yoke if shoulder harness isn’t snug. But what do I know…first thing I did when I bought the Cherokee - shoulder harnesses.
 
I don't ski but from riding motorcycles for many years I've learned that, in fact, helmets do save lives. They are not needed until they are.

I believe the same rule applies that is given for motorcycle riders and that is: "if you think you head is not worth putting in a helmet, you are correct" ...
Same, ATGATT for me. Retired Paramedic who rides. The funny thing I have noticed is that even the Harley rebels have started wearing real helmets in states with mandatory laws. I don't see any of those beanie lids with a fake DOT sticker anymore. I still laugh when I see riders in shorts and flip-flops, but wearing a jacket, helmet and gloves, but anything is better than what we used to see.
 
I’ve done a lot of snowboarding in my day, I’ve done the whole getting out of helicopters in the Alaska range and all. I never wore a helmet and never hit my head. The last two years I’ve taken a trip to snowboard and I reluctantly rented a helmet because it seems it’s the thing to do now and guess what, I hit my head both trips. I really feel like the thickness of the helmet made me hit my head and without on I likely wouldn’t not have hit it. So I can’t say one way or the other but now I guess I just rent it when I go. Plus it keeps me a little warmer. HahaIMG_1734.jpeg
 
I’ve done a lot of snowboarding in my day, I’ve done the whole getting out of helicopters in the Alaska range and all. I never wore a helmet and never hit my head. The last two years I’ve taken a trip to snowboard and I reluctantly rented a helmet because it seems it’s the thing to do now and guess what, I hit my head both trips. I really feel like the thickness of the helmet made me hit my head and without on I likely wouldn’t not have hit it. So I can’t say one way or the other but now I guess I just rent it when I go. Plus it keeps me a little warmer. HahaView attachment 138413
Maybe it's risk compensation. :)
 
Once GPS watches came out, I decided to wear one while skiing. I never really had any idea how fast I was going, but I got on a moderate incline and got into a tuck and went full out. Looking at the data dump, I was doing close to 55MPH during the bulk of the run. That was enough to get me thinking about protective gear right then and there.
When the Ski Tracks app first came out (it tracks speed, vertical distance, horizontal distance, and a bunch of other metrics) I and the middle-aged adolescents I ski with spent a lot of time trying to one-up each other's numbers. I finally worked up to 62 mph, and swore off further speed attempts. That was way outside of my comfort zone. The same year I hit 32,000 feet vertical one great day at Sun Valley, which I was pretty happy with.

Now, a dozen years later, I rarely exceed 30 mph and 20K vertical for a day. Getting old sucks.
 
I never got the interest in racking up vertical feet or mileage. It says nothing about the quality of terrain. High mileage counts usually mean a lot of long groomed cruisers. I am more interested in moguls, glades, off piste, powder, etc. But different strokes for different folks.
 
I never got the interest in racking up vertical feet or mileage. It says nothing about the quality of terrain. High mileage counts usually mean a lot of long groomed cruisers. I am more interested in moguls, glades, off piste, powder, etc. But different strokes for different folks.
I like that...more true to the ethic of skiing. But some time ago, my knees told me no more moguls (about the same time they told me no more telemark), and I only ski relatively easy glades, and no off piste at all...so I'm becoming more of a long, groomed cruiser.

But I expect to keep that up for a good long time!
 
I never wore a helmet when skiing. But, I haven't been skiing in almost 30 years. They're still in the corner of the garage, but I suspect that the style has changed a bit since they were last on snow.
 
I wore a helmet in the early '70's. I was on a decent ski team and we had a downhill race a couple times a year. Helmets required for Downhill, but not slalom or GS. Fiberglass shell with a bit of padding, suspect it was not much better than nothing. Haven't skied in years,
 
Note that the people who would have really benefitted from a helmet aren't able to post. just ask your friendly neighborhood neurosurgeon.
 
Virginia Tech has done some interesting studies on how helmets protect participants in various activities. https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/

I always find discussions on personal safety interesting. I wear a helmet when snowboarding or mountain biking. For some reason I don’t wear a helmet when riding my beach cruiser around town. Played competitive rugby for years and the only protective gear involved was a mouth piece. I’ve split a couple helmets biking and seen friends get concussions while wearing helmets snowboarding and biking. So, my own perspectives on personal safety aren’t exactly consistent.
Same. Mountain biking? Helmet. Riding around the neighborhood/flat trail? No helmet. Snow ski? Helmet. Motorcycle even just down to the corner store? Helmet. Mostly comes down to a personal risk assessment and anticipated speed/energy. I don't recall any major head injuries as a kid riding my bike while jumping off all manner of ramps and obstacles. However, my daughter (8 yr old) went for 1 ride without her helmet in our neighborhood and took a mild spill which she hit her head and got a legitimate concussion (short term loss of memory/nausea). Odd how arbitrarily we can shift the goalposts a bit when it comes to our personal evaluations.
 
I never wore a helmet when skiing. But, I haven't been skiing in almost 30 years. They're still in the corner of the garage, but I suspect that the style has changed a bit since they were last on snow.
A bit. But skis had sidecut long before someone in ski marketing learned what 'parabolic' meant.
 
I ski a lot. I always wear a helmet now (didn't prior to 2005 maybe?). Now when I fall or a snowboarder runs me over, instead of it being the end of the day I can keep on skiing keep on skiing keep on skiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii....

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Never wore a helmet skiing. Last time I went skiing, I broke my thumb. Helmet wouldn't have helped.
 
I was able to find that head injuries accounts for 20% of all skiing injuries, but not the chances of a head injury in general, or on any one day.

This thought came to me this weekend when it seemed to me that helmet use has exploded at the ski hill I was on. (felt 'old', having a lack of the latest safety improvement)

Do you use a helmet for Green/Blue day skiing? Rent or own?
Yep. I didn't always wear a helmet when snow but I have worn one the last few years. They are warm and light so it's comfortable enough.
I was able to find that head injuries accounts for 20% of all skiing injuries, but not the chances of a head injury in general, or on any one day.

This thought came to me this weekend when it seemed to me that helmet use has exploded at the ski hill I was on. (felt 'old', having a lack of the latest safety improvement)

Do you use a helmet for Green/Blue day skiing? Rent or own?
When I started skiing I didn't wear a helmet. Now I wear one everytime. My snow ski helmet is warm and light enough to not be uncomfortable. I also wear a helmet when water ski jumping.
And since it looks like my flying career is over cause of a damm bicycle, I wear a full-face helmet everytime I'm on two wheels...Indian cruiser, dirt bike, mtb, etc.
Full-face helmet is the only way to go when on two wheels. I would still have a job if I hadn't been wearing that stupid top only protecting bicycle lid.
 
When I started snow skiing. It wasn’t helmets but safety bindings. I was 17 and a freshman in college with a very tight budget. For $25 at a budget ski swap I bought a new set of poles ,and well used pair of ski boots 3 sizes too small and a pair of wood skis with suicide bindings.
First trip out was to Bridger Bowl out of Bozeman MT. The two lifts were state of the art . A rope powered one by the rim of a rear wheel on a John Deere D tractor. The other lift was a paddle board lift that you slipped be tween your knees and sat on kinda.
I had water skied for several years prior to the snow business. Figured it couldn’t be any tougher then water so away I went.

I started with the rope tow on beginners hill and after 2 runs down it , decided I was ready for the “big hill”.
How tough could that be , kids were catching the paddles and going up quite nicely.
After waiting 20 minutes in line it was my turn. After successfully getting mounted on paddle seat and up the big mountain I went . After a few minutes going up and looking back I decided it was time to dismount. I fell over and 3 kids skied over me before I could get out of the way.
After finally getting out of the way I made it to a standing position and observed what the skiers were doing.
They were doing some fancy zig zagging . Well as a hot shot water skier, I decided to go straight down the hill.

So off I go , I’m gaining speed at an alarming rate, whoa, how do you slow this ride down? No snow ski lessons , no idea how to slow or stop. Finally after hitting a mogul I did a cart wheel down the hill . One ski stuck in the snow and about pulled my leg off until it broke loose and down the hill the lone ski went . Seemingly gaining speed and turning here and there with a mind its own. It flew over snow berm at the parking lot and
met the door of a nice 1951 two door Ford car.
Mean while I’m laying in the snow wondering how much longer one leg will be then the other after that wreck.

I managed to discreetly make my way down to the parking lot to find my ski stuck in the snow bank by the car.
I decided I should perhaps quietly recover in my car till the curious onlookers quit waiting for the idiot to claim his ski.
After an hour all seemed to have lost interest , and I retrieved my ski and headed back to college and my dorm room to recover.
I think I still walk lop sided from that incident.

Years later I skied Lake Louise and Big Mountian . By then I had rented better equipment and had good help from the ski teams coach and managed not to kill my self or others .
Last ski trip was in 1968 on corn snow at Big Mountain.

Now I’m trying not to kill myself in my C172, I do have a good flight instructor and 200 hours solo.
No more snow skiing.
 
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I skied for a week at government expense at Bridger Bowl 30 years ago. One of my favorite mountains. Radical terrain and a really cool old school vibe.

One of the things I loved about Carson was the opportunity for backcountry training events. Some of the best work weeks in my career.
 
One of the things I loved about Carson was the opportunity for backcountry training events. Some of the best work weeks in my career.

Absolutely! That's a big reason why 10th Group relocated there when Fort Devens MA was closed by BRAC in the 90's.
 
I don't ski but from riding motorcycles for many years I've learned that, in fact, helmets do save lives. They are not needed until they are.

I believe the same rule applies that is given for motorcycle riders and that is: "if you think you head is not worth putting in a helmet, you are correct" ...
I just dug out my motorcycle helmet. I inherited it 20 yrs ago from a friend moving to Florida. I don't ride motorcycles. Not sure what to do with it, but it sits on the shelf with my other hats. The bike helmet is at the hangar with the bike. I haven't used either since knee replacement. Even lowering the seat as far as possible, I can't ride the bike Guess I need a smaller one (26 in => 24 in)?
 
I've thought about that as well. I tkink they might be a bit of a problem in a typical GA cockpit, with limited head and shoulder room. If you end up in an upside-down situation, that might contribute to your death by bending your neck in ways that cause asphyxiation.
Also, most flight helmets (at least the ones I'm familiar with) don't seem to offer that much face protection, which is the main way we get head injuries in GA accidents. With some you can install a nose/mouth shield, but not sure what kind of impact that is rated to.

Drifting this topic even more, how about wearing a nomex flight suit? A lot of survivable GA accident end up being deadly (or with horrible long term injuries) because of the post-crash fire and the resulting burns over 80% of the body. A flight suit would offer enough protection for a surviver to get out, maybe in combination with gloves and a cotton balaclava.
The nomex suit works unless you're wearing cotton or poly clothes/underwear. The heat will melt the poly to your skin.
 
The nomex suit works unless you're wearing cotton or poly clothes/underwear. The heat will melt the poly to your skin.
Cotton is OK (and desirable). Any kind of synthetic fiber under the Nomex is what must be avoided. But even the Nomex only gives you a few extra seconds to get out, if you don't have other injuries preventing that, or if a rescue crew is standing right there to pull you out.

I used to ski a lot. Learned when laced leather boots and cable bindings on wooden skis were the norm (1964), though that gave way soon to plastic boots and those newfangled Cubco step-in bindings. The vibe was laid back and old fashioned. Nobody wore helmets back then. Knitted Moriarity hats were the height of ski fashion. I drifted out of skiing (I wouldn't say quit) soon after college when it started to get too expensive. I skied a few times with my daughter's high school ski club years later; the vibe had changed with the introduction of snowboards and lots of people were wearing helmets... and looked wonderingly at my old skinny skis with Look-Nevada turntable bindings, which were the height of ski technology in 1976!

In the late 70s you'd see a lot of blue jeans and cowboy hats on the slopes, too.

If I were skiing today I'd probably wear a helmet. I do when riding my bicycle (usually), unlike back in the day. But skiing's even more expensive and I'm not sure my knees would take it now. But I still XC ski whenever I can, for free in the woods behind my house. No helmet. But XC isn't really skiing, I think of it as more a way to hike fast when there's snow on the ground.
 
Cotton is OK (and desirable). Any kind of synthetic fiber under the Nomex is what must be avoided. But even the Nomex only gives you a few extra seconds to get out, if you don't have other injuries preventing that, or if a rescue crew is standing right there to pull you out.
+1 and +1 for egress drills in full gear :)

I have never flown with an organization that mandated flight suits that did *not* mandate cotton or more nomex/aramid, if anything, underneath.

Nauga,
and what lies beneath
 
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