[NA] Contractor costs after minor damage

[ArrowFlyer86]

About a month ago the cartridge in my master bathroom shower burst due to the sub-zero temps and the previous owners being morons and putting the shower pipe on an external wall against code. It caused a water leak to pour down into my garage entryway below it, and then a minor amount of water got down into an unfinished basement room. I did the initial cleanup, then a guy hired by the insurance company came in to immediately do the mitigation work (cut out drywall, set up fans/dehumidifiers) and then tested to ensure the house is good.

Now we're on reconstruction work. Entryway needs new drywall, wood paneling, trim and paint. Floor refinishing. The whole front entryway section is about 7x10 including the front closet. The basement just needs new drywall on 1 wall and to attached the still-good trim, it's an unfinished storage room so not much to do.

It's my first time having in-home construction stuff done. I'm curious what you would expect something like this to cost? If you had to fix it yourself, how much could you do it for? I got 3 quotes for the repair work and while I'm grateful that insurance covers this, I'm still in a state of disbelief.

entryway:


small basement storage room:

 

[MauleSkinner]

From where it’s at, if I was doing it myself it would be the cost of drywall, trim, paint, and fasteners.

I guess maybe I don’t understand the question.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

From where it’s at, if I was doing it myself it would be the cost of drywall, trim, paint, and fasteners.

I guess maybe I don’t understand the question.

Apparently I don't understand it either, because that's what I would have thought lol.
I would have thought hiring a couple guys to throw up drywall, slap on some wood paneling, paint, etc... Would be not that expensive? I mean not cheap, nothing's cheap these days. But like.. reasonable* priced?
But my internal ballpark number was not in the same universe as the quotes I got, and which the insurance adjuster came by, took pictures, sort of shrugged and said "yeah that's fine, it is what it is"

Edit: Reasonable = price of materials + maybe 3 days of work for 2 guys at the absolute high end? This doesn't look like a job that requires a team of dudes.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Low 4 figures

 

[Charlie Golf]

From where it’s at, if I was doing it myself it would be the cost of drywall, trim, paint, and fasteners.

I guess maybe I don’t understand the question.

Same here.

I'd guess the quotes are in the 5k range?

 

[TCABM]

What I would expect it to cost is nothing like what my insurer will pay for it to be done to the specifications in my policy dec and the insurer’s contract with the contractor.

 

[Lindberg]

I'd expect this to be $15,000. And I'd be grateful that insurance pays to actually do everything that needs to be done, rather than doing the minimum, like I would if it was on my back and dime.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

So I'm not crazy. I would have thought the same thing. About $5k? Off by a factor of 6-8x. The quotes were all $31k-$40k. The lowest pitch being the one from the company my insurance co had recommended at the outset.
This is in addition to the nearly $10k charged for mitigation (I never saw the bill, just casually asked my adjuster what they paid). Mitigation, practically speaking, was 3 guys coming in chopping open drywall for 2 hours and setting up fans to run for 5 days. Coming back after 5 days and picking up the fans and calling it a day.

I mean, I still can't wrap my head around it. This is 1 room. An entryway. Probably the most unimportant room in the whole house. And you're telling me it costs a total of $40-50k all in (mitigation + repair) to solve a shower water leak?

I was baffled. I asked the adjuster/mitigation and contractors if there is some damage they suspected that I don't see. Like.. structural issues or something that would cost that much. Did this water damage rot the core of my house? lol. But no, it didn't. It's just what you see in the pictures. The one caveat is they said we might need to refinish more of the flooring into the kitchen in case it doesn't match well. OK. But that's still not that much square footage.

The adjuster, for his part, didn't seem to give a **** about it. Because of the dollar values he had to come by, take pictures and then just shrugged and said "yeah whatever, it's expensive, but you want to make sure you don't come out of this any worse off so pick the contractor you're most comfortable with and we've got it covered".

I seriously feel like asking if I can just buy drywall and do the work with my friend and pocket the other $30k. I thought aircraft repairs were expensive, but this is truly a ****ing mind boggling sum of money for what's involved.

 

[Racerx]

Dad had a similar thing happen a few years ago. The stainless hose that goes from supply valve to the toilet has a plastic fitting. Plastic fitting cracked and wrecked the entire upstairs. Main level. And basement. Tile came out, drywall. Cabinets. Everything. Insurance company gave him 100k. He then proceeded to blow it on 30k worth of cabinets alone.

He had wanted to remodel anyway. Just not all in one shot.

He's done everything aside from the drywall himself. Because he's a pain in the ass and an absolute perfectionist and will nitpick everyone's work. So you absolutely can do it yourself. But I hate drywall.

Worst part was the people the insurance company hired unplugged one of his freezers that had game meat. This happened late August while he was in Alaska. I was leaving August 29 to go to New Mexico. He flew home to look at it. Then flew to ABQ. Around September 5 I called my sister to check the GFI to make sure it wasn't tripped. It wasn't. But that's when we realized they unplugged the freezer.

Insurance company told him to put a value on the meat and they covered that too.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Because he's a pain in the ass and an absolute perfectionist and will nitpick everyone's work.

Whereas I'm the dead opposite.
When they said "refinishing the floor in the entryway only -- may result in some mismatching in appearance with the kitchen" my gut reaction was "that's what rugs are for" lol.

To me, if you can get me 90-95% of the way back to how it was for $5k, then spending the remaining 30, 35, 40k$ to get it back 100.00% seems like an absolute waste of marginal dollars for both me/insurance company. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful my insurance company offers it without a fuss, but it also feels like a colossal waste of resources.

 

[kmacht]

Tell them to cut you a check and do it yourself.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Tell them to cut you a check and do it yourself.

Is that a real option?

 

[kmacht]

Is that a real option?

Very much so. The only down side is if you find more damage while doing the repair the insurance company won’t pay to fix it as the claim will be closed.

 

[flyingron]

Dunno, we had rather severe water damage while we were on vacation once and USAA and Servepro made it "like it never even happened."

I have to say that our ServePro guys were the cleanest drywallers I have ever come across. Each day when I'd walk down to where they were working, there wasn't a spec of dust. They also boxed up my entire wine cellar (about 108 cases) and loaded it on a U-Haul truck for me. THey weren't allowed to "transport" alcohol, so I drove. They met me at the storage facility and unloaded the truck for me.

On the amusing side, when they brought the stuff they'd packed up back I found that:
1. They had sent out some moving pads we had lying around to be dry cleaned.
2. I unrolled about twenty feet of bubble wrap to find they had very carefully packed the wire cage that came off the top of a champagne bottle.
3. They packed up one of their own ladders and took it away and returned it to me later. I pointed this out to them but they just shrugged. I use it in the hangar when I'm working on the Navion (it's more convenient then using the aircraft step if you have to be in and out a lot).

 

[TCABM]

So I'm not crazy. I would have thought the same thing. About $5k? Off by a factor of 6-8x. The quotes were all $31k-$40k...

T&M isn’t likely the culprit, labor is. You’re paying at least three layers of labor per trade (installer, supervisor, company owner) plus G&A, delivery fees, purchase quantity minimums, etc. on the bid.

 

[Racerx]

Is that a real option?

Yes! That's what my dad did. However, the insurance company held some back in escrow until it was completed

 

[MauleSkinner]

T&M isn’t likely the culprit, labor is. You’re paying at least three layers of labor per trade (installer, supervisor, company owner) plus G&A, delivery fees, purchase quantity minimums, etc. on the bid.

Plus probably “go away pricing” for a job that small.

 

[FORANE]

Where are you? I got a guy who's an artist with drywall.

 

[Charlie Golf]

So I'm not crazy. I would have thought the same thing. About $5k? Off by a factor of 6-8x. The quotes were all $31k-$40k. The lowest pitch being the one from the company my insurance co had recommended at the outset.
This is in addition to the nearly $10k charged for mitigation (I never saw the bill, just casually asked my adjuster what they paid). Mitigation, practically speaking, was 3 guys coming in chopping open drywall for 2 hours and setting up fans to run for 5 days. Coming back after 5 days and picking up the fans and calling it a day.

I mean, I still can't wrap my head around it. This is 1 room. An entryway. Probably the most unimportant room in the whole house. And you're telling me it costs a total of $40-50k all in (mitigation + repair) to solve a shower water leak?

I was baffled. I asked the adjuster/mitigation and contractors if there is some damage they suspected that I don't see. Like.. structural issues or something that would cost that much. Did this water damage rot the core of my house? lol. But no, it didn't. It's just what you see in the pictures. The one caveat is they said we might need to refinish more of the flooring into the kitchen in case it doesn't match well. OK. But that's still not that much square footage.

The adjuster, for his part, didn't seem to give a **** about it. Because of the dollar values he had to come by, take pictures and then just shrugged and said "yeah whatever, it's expensive, but you want to make sure you don't come out of this any worse off so pick the contractor you're most comfortable with and we've got it covered".

I seriously feel like asking if I can just buy drywall and do the work with my friend and pocket the other $30k. I thought aircraft repairs were expensive, but this is truly a ****ing mind boggling sum of money for what's involved.

That's insane! I've seen contractors' eyes light up at the mention of insurance, so I wonder how much that factors in.

I recently had to have some structural work done at a commercial property (no insurance company involved). If the same scope of work was needed at my residence, I would have been perfectly comfortable tackling it myself. Due to other factors, I decided I needed to remove myself from the liability chain, so I started getting quotes from contractors with a CSL. They ranged from $6k to 19k, with no significant differences in the overall work.

I usually end up choosing a mid range quote, but I had a good feeling about the 6k guy after going over everything with him and seeing some previous jobs. His work was top notch, and the work was done in less time than the others promised (3-4 days as opposed to 2-3 weeks). I was on site every day and everything was very organized and transparent. Even with a "surprise" that added more labor & materials, it was only another $1500.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Where are you? I got a guy who's an artist with drywall.

Chicago -- western suburbs.

That's insane! I've seen contractors' eyes light up at the mention of insurance, so I wonder how much that factors in.

Yeah, I kinda wonder if these companies are giving "insurance company special" prices.

T&M isn’t likely the culprit, labor is. You’re paying at least three layers of labor per trade (installer, supervisor, company owner) plus G&A, delivery fees, purchase quantity minimums, etc. on the bid.

It's just crazy though. At what point is the inflated work cost too much? I mean why stop at 30-40k? Why not 50 or 60?!
Wait... I can answer that: per capitalism, it's only too much when people stop using their services... But there's still demand at this price so they'll charge it!


I'm going to have to seriously consider asking for a check and finding another way to fix this. There is no way, in my mind, that it should cost anywhere near this for a job that shouldn't cost more than 1-2k$ in materials (with the white wood panel in the entryway probably being the most expensive part lol).

 

[Charlie Golf]

Dunno, we had rather severe water damage while we were on vacation once and USAA and Servepro made it "like it never even happened."

I have to say that our ServePro guys were the cleanest drywallers I have ever come across. Each day when I'd walk down to where they were working, there wasn't a spec of dust. They also boxed up my entire wine cellar (about 108 cases) and loaded it on a U-Haul truck for me. THey weren't allowed to "transport" alcohol, so I drove. They met me at the storage facility and unloaded the truck for me.

On the amusing side, when they brought the stuff they'd packed up back I found that:
1. They had sent out some moving pads we had lying around to be dry cleaned.
2. I unrolled about twenty feet of bubble wrap to find they had very carefully packed the wire cage that came off the top of a champagne bottle.
3. They packed up one of their own ladders and took it away and returned it to me later. I pointed this out to them but they just shrugged. I use it in the hangar when I'm working on the Navion (it's more convenient then using the aircraft step if you have to be in and out a lot).

Not to derail the thread, but we need to have a POA get together at your place sometime.

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah, I kinda wonder if these companies are giving "insurance company special" prices.

Yes because they have to meet ins. company standards, warranty their work to a possibly unknown standard, and they know the person making the decisions isn't paying. Compare the cost of taking your car to a dealer for repairs vs. hiring a guy in the AutoZone parking lot.

 

[Racerx]

Here's the loft I'm building above my detached garage. Have done everything myself. Lemme know if you need a hand. 1,500 bucks a day is my weekend rate. Ha

 

[DJTorrente]

I'm gobsmacked at some of the numbers contractors are throwing my way for a reno of a second upstairs bathroom. One guy started the conversation by pulling my house up on Zillow and suggesting I should spend 10% of current market value. Bully for them if they can get it; but I have to put MY kids through college before I put THEIR kids through college.

I guess they have to get a little hungrier than they are currently before we see eye to eye.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Here's the loft I'm building above my detached garage. Have done everything myself. Lemme know if you need a hand. 1,500 bucks a day is my weekend rate. Ha

View attachment 138662

That's some quality work right there!

I'm gobsmacked at some of the numbers contractors are throwing my way for a reno of a second upstairs bathroom. One guy started the conversation by pulling my house up on Zillow and suggesting I should spend 10% of current market value. Bully for them if they can get it; but I have to put MY kids through college before I put THEIR kids through college.

I guess they have to get a little hungrier than they are currently before we see eye to eye.

Yeah, my brother vented to me about that. His wife insisted on getting a bathroom remodel. For the shower removal/new installation alone they charged him $14k. Which was about 5% of the home's purchase price. I don't even know what the rest of the bathroom cost. The work took 1.5 days with 2 guys. Given that his shower looks like absolutely nothing special at all and definitely wasn't some crazy custom tiling or anything, that's gotta be one hell of a profit margin. I imagine you were getting roped into a similar situation.

 

[Skyrys62]

The quotes were all $31k-$40k.

 

[rockwoodrv9a]

Insurance work paid by the insurance company is all figured in Xactimate software. There are set unit prices for every item you can think of. If you have a good Xactimate person you can make a crapton of money on repairs. There is no incentive to reduce costs and every reason to make sure everything is included. There are mitigation options that include all type of heaters and dehydrators with HEPA filters that are billed at nice rates. Then the testing to make sure they are working is another money maker.

It is crazy but that is how it works. We have apartments and commercial rentals in several states and it is the same at all of our properties.

 

[Salty]

If you take their check to do it yourself, your likely to have to let them inspect the work was done properly at some point.

 

[Fiveslide]

I have pretty much disaster proofed our house as much as I can, and only have one level. So, a leak isn't that big a deal in this house. Water heater and washing machine have leak pans plumbed to the outside. Dishwasher has a leak pan, not plumbed outside, but pushes water in front of the appliance so you know it is leaking. I did all this because of the story below, and many other leak disasters at that place.

I used to do apartment maintenance. I had one tenant go to Aaron's and get a washer and dryer, Aaron's installed it. Well, it flooded the tenant's hall and the downstairs unit. The downstairs unit happened to be vacant because that tenant had just died.

We assumed the washer was defective. Aaron's would bring her a new one after the clean up and repairs. The owners hired pros and got it all dried and fixed. Aaron's installed new washer, the new washer flooded the units again. Turns out the installer wasn't putting the drain hose in the correct hole and it just pumped all the water out into the wall. I didn't get to see the problem the first time because it was after hours and our carpet guy beat me there and had already pulled out the washer to do water extraction. I found the problem on the second flood. Company policy was changed, no outside appliance installers allowed.

It was a small complex and I was the only maintenance employee. I didn't have time to gut the units and do all the repairs. Thankfully, the owners hired pros and, I think, went after Aaron's for payment.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

If you take their check to do it yourself, your likely to have to let them inspect the work was done properly at some point.

I imagine they lose visibility into whether it was done properly after drywall goes up? B/c after that all they're going to see is a painted wall pretty much? Or do you just document the work with photos as you go along?

 

[Zeldman]

So I'm not crazy.

We didn't say that...

 

[Racerx]

I imagine they lose visibility into whether it was done properly after drywall goes up? B/c after that all they're going to see is a painted wall pretty much? Or do you just document the work with photos as you go along?

Didn't care in dads case. Just photos showing work was completed to release the escrow or hold back.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

That's insane! I've seen contractors' eyes light up at the mention of insurance, so I wonder how much that factors in.

That's what it is. Seen it many times. Doesn't matter if it's home repair, car repair or whatever else - you mention "insurance" and some shops/contractors see a blank check. Try it out, call up some contractors and tell them you're not insured for the damage and see what they'll quote you. I did that with car damage once. Someone rear ended me, his insurance accepted the claim. I went to a no-name repair shop saying it's covered by insurance but need a quote first. They quoted something like $1,300. I submitted that to the insurance and said I'd like to get paid out and they wired $1,300. I went to another no-name repair shop in the same city saying I need this fixed, no insurance - all self pay and they got the job done for $500.

 

[Jaminky]

Like others have already said,those quotes are totally insane and are definitely because it’s an insurance job.A lot of guys will tack extra on because of it being a small job with multiple trips but not 30k extra lol.
I’m a trim carpenter in a family business where we specialize in start to finish custom homes so I know a little about what goes on I’d say.For a business like ours,a job like that wouldn’t be worth the bother but we would have references for local handymen that would do well with it.
The whole “just because we can pricing” really ticks me off,we see it all the time in specialty work.

 

[Brad W]

Like others have already said,those quotes are totally insane and are definitely because it’s an insurance job.A lot of guys will tack extra on because of it being a small job with multiple trips but not 30k extra lol.
I’m a trim carpenter in a family business where we specialize in start to finish custom homes so I know a little about what goes on I’d say.For a business like ours,a job like that wouldn’t be worth the bother but we would have references for local handymen that would do well with it.
The whole “just because we can pricing” really ticks me off,we see it all the time in specialty work.

I think at least in large part it's not "just because we can" as much as it is "make it worth my while".
at $40,000.00 Yeah, it's worth your while.
even if it includes some plumbing work that's not shown in the photos... which I'm guessing it does

 

[Jaminky]

I think at least in large part it's not "just because we can" as much as it is "make it worth my while".
at $40,000.00 Yeah, it's worth your while.
even if it includes some plumbing work that's not shown in the photos... which I'm guessing it does

I agree at 40k it definitely “worth the while” but there’s no way I could charge that and feel good about it.Im not going to rip someone off,even insurance guys.Things like this is what drives up insurance rates for everyone else

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

I think at least in large part it's not "just because we can" as much as it is "make it worth my while".
at $40,000.00 Yeah, it's worth your while.
even if it includes some plumbing work that's not shown in the photos... which I'm guessing it does

There's no plumbing work required. The plumbing was done separately for $450 and already paid by insurance.

Still haven't gotten a response from insurance on what the process is for getting a check and doing it solo. The preferred contractor by the insurance company, the lowest priced one at a modest 31k$ (lol), is also radio silent since Friday. It kind of gives me the impression he doesn't care to do the work.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Also, I have to admit my head is still exploding at the costs here.

I just keep thinking about the disconnect between what's quoted and what work is required.
And I keep landing on the idea that ****, if this contractor got even 5 of these small jobs per year (mitigation+reconstruction) and just worked with 1 other guy, they'd each make $100k for the year and have 11 months of free time. Something just doesn't add up in my head!

EDIT: Or 1 dude does 2 jobs like this and is done for the year. All b/c of 1 minor shower leak. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Flatiowa]

Agreed, to me the quote is insanity. If it was my house I’d do it myself and be supprised if it even approaches $1,000. If it was an in laws and they provided the material I’d do it for what every they thought was fair and feel guilt accepting more than a few hundred dollars. People have lost touch with reality, a solid days labor (and that is about all it should take if they know what they are doing) should not cost five figures.

 

[Racerx]

The floor refinishing would be the biggest pain in the ass as all the trim needs to come off. Sand. Edge. Hand sand/scrape corners. Stain if wanted. Multiple layers of poly which takes time to dry, unless you go water base UV activated that takes special machines you wouldn't have access to. That is all assuming it's solid hardwood and able to be refinished. Some engineered floors may be able to be finished, but the solid layer isn't thick if the damage is bad. It may not be a big area. But still a few days process start to finish.

Oak unlike hickory is surprisingly resilient. Dad's oak floors all came back and didn't need to be refinished due to the water. They need refinishing because the poly has worn off. I would give the floors a few weeks with a dehumidifier and see if they come back as floor finishing isnt fun. I refinished the oak hardwood in my rental. Real easy to let the sander get away from you and cause more damage. Being in a small confined area that exaggerates that probability.