[NA] Contractor costs after minor damage

[Lindberg]

The floor refinishing would be the biggest pain in the ass as all the trim needs to come off. Sand. Edge. Hand sand/scrape corners. Stain if wanted. Multiple layers of poly which takes time to dry, unless you go water base UV activated that takes special machines you wouldn't have access to. That is all assuming it's solid hardwood and able to be refinished. Some engineered floors may be able to be finished, but the solid layer isn't thick if the damage is bad. It may not be a big area. But still a few days process start to finish.

Oak unlike hickory is surprisingly resilient. Dad's oak floors all came back and didn't need to be refinished due to the water. They need refinishing because the poly has worn off. I would give the floors a few weeks with a dehumidifier and see if they come back as floor finishing isnt fun. I refinished the oak hardwood in my rental. Real easy to let the sander get away from you and cause more damage. Being in a small confined area that exaggerates that probability.

And proper prep really differentiates the middle from the top of professionals. I've hired painters and floor finishers who will spend two days prepping the space for a half-day job. And the difference is that when it's done, there's no evidence they were there.

 

[Racerx]

Agreed, to me the quote is insanity. If it was my house I’d do it myself and be supprised if it even approaches $1,000. If it was an in laws and they provided the material I’d do it for what every they thought was fair and feel guilt accepting more than a few hundred dollars. People have lost touch with reality, a solid days labor (and that is about all it should take if they know what they are doing) should not cost five figures.

It is not a days labor to sand, stain, and refinish floors. As well as hang, tape, prime, paint drywall, and reinstall trim. I could see 4 days of work with 2 different contractors.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So I'm not crazy. I would have thought the same thing. About $5k? Off by a factor of 6-8x. The quotes were all $31k-$40k. The lowest pitch being the one from the company my insurance co had recommended at the outset.
This is in addition to the nearly $10k charged for mitigation (I never saw the bill, just casually asked my adjuster what they paid). Mitigation, practically speaking, was 3 guys coming in chopping open drywall for 2 hours and setting up fans to run for 5 days. Coming back after 5 days and picking up the fans and calling it a day.

I mean, I still can't wrap my head around it. This is 1 room. An entryway. Probably the most unimportant room in the whole house. And you're telling me it costs a total of $40-50k all in (mitigation + repair) to solve a shower water leak?

I was baffled. I asked the adjuster/mitigation and contractors if there is some damage they suspected that I don't see. Like.. structural issues or something that would cost that much. Did this water damage rot the core of my house? lol. But no, it didn't. It's just what you see in the pictures. The one caveat is they said we might need to refinish more of the flooring into the kitchen in case it doesn't match well. OK. But that's still not that much square footage.

The adjuster, for his part, didn't seem to give a **** about it. Because of the dollar values he had to come by, take pictures and then just shrugged and said "yeah whatever, it's expensive, but you want to make sure you don't come out of this any worse off so pick the contractor you're most comfortable with and we've got it covered".

I seriously feel like asking if I can just buy drywall and do the work with my friend and pocket the other $30k. I thought aircraft repairs were expensive, but this is truly a ****ing mind boggling sum of money for what's involved.

The lesson here is that in a capitalist system, anything that gets paid for by insurance is going to be massively overpriced.

Companies that do repairs like this, auto body shops, and the health care industry are raking it in. Unfortunately, it's usually not the workers, the techs, or the doctors who are getting the money.

 

[AKiss20]

The lesson here is that in a capitalist system, anything that gets paid for by insurance is going to be massively overpriced.

Companies that do repairs like this, auto body shops, and the health care industry are raking it in. Unfortunately, it's usually not the workers, the techs, or the doctors who are getting the money.

Doesn’t help that private equity is snapping up small businesses in the trades like wildfire and squeezing them for all they are worth. When large swaths of the market is owned by a few huge players and they get to set the mentality and approach to business, not a lot of that oh so magical competition that supposedly solves everything.

 

[Bob Noel]

The lesson here is that in a capitalist system, anything that gets paid for by insurance is going to be massively overpriced.

fun soundbite. But it's simply not true. Not everyone charges more when insurance is involved.

I know my dentist gets paid the same whether it is out of my pocket (no dental insurance) as when my sister has the same procedure (she has dental insurance).

A couple of local autobody places used the same book to give a quote to repair my car - no insurance, but it's the same book they would use if there was insurance.

 

[Racerx]

The lesson here is that in a capitalist system, anything that gets paid for by insurance is going to be massively overpriced.

Companies that do repairs like this, auto body shops, and the health care industry are raking it in. Unfortunately, it's usually not the workers, the techs, or the doctors who are getting the money.

My cousin owns an auto body shop. The insurance company tells him how much a job costs and what's approved. He can appeal but it's not as egregious as this contractor quote. The auto body stuff keeps the lights on. But where he really makes money is boats. That's a much less competitive market and he can pretty much set his price since nobody else is set up for fiberglass and gel coat repair

 

[DJTorrente]

fun soundbite. But it's simply not true. Not everyone charges more when insurance is involved.

I know my dentist gets paid the same whether it is out of my pocket (no dental insurance) as when my sister has the same procedure (she has dental insurance).

A couple of local autobody places used the same book to give a quote to repair my car - no insurance, but it's the same book they would use if there was insurance.

Quite the contrary, I was charged more by a dentist as a cash customer. My spouse needed an emergency extraction on a holiday weekend when my HR department mistakenly coded my coverage as lapsed. I was treated as a cash customer. No collection delays or expenses; no salaries paid to the gaggle of back-office hens who code procedures and exchange paperwork with insurers -- Cash. On. Barrelhead.

When my coverage snafu was corrected, the claim was processed through my insurer, and I was reimbursed. The net payment to the provider was about 60% of what I was charged. Couldn't have happened to nicer people.

Insurance coverage exists because providers want it to exist. They invented it, because -- on aggregate -- insurance enables customers to pay more for their services than they would otherwise have the capacity to pay.

In my case, my insurer acted as a negotiating agent, using aggregate market power to demand a price that I could not get on my own.

 

[Bob Noel]

Quite the contrary, I was charged more by a dentist as a cash customer. ...

Notice I said "not everyone charges more"

I didn't say that nobody charges more.

edit: or were you agreeing with me?

 

[chippy]

To higher a single contractor that can or will do all the work is the way to go. Finding someone reputable and good that can do it all is the challenge. So, the typical route would be a general contractor who will higher a drywall contractor, a painter, a floor finisher and a trim carpenter. Then they'll mark it up 20% (if you're lucky). Drywall contractors are getting anywhere between 10 and $15/sqft to hang and finish a full size project (entire house). This is a small job. Go to the hardware store, pick up supplies, estimate the job, yada yada... They will charge more for being a small job. For a ballpark, what I do is calculate the square footage of wall, ceiling and floor. Figure an allowance of $20-$25/sqft at a minimum and you should be close. A 7x10' room, 8 ft high is 272 sqft for the walls (and yes, you will generally still have to pay for windows and doors being cut out). Now add in the sq ft of ceiling and floor, 140 sqft for a total of 412 sqft. Multiply by $20 and it would be $10,000 or so. If you used a GC, figure $14,000. (It's a small job).

Of course it also depends on where you live. If you can find that handyman that can do the job (good luck), they may charge you half of that.

$40,000 is outrageous. I'll fly to Chicago and do it for half that.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Update:
The "cheapest" contractor won the bid. $31k + $9.7k for mitigation work. All in for about 40k$ from a simple leak. Thank god it wasn't something more severe. Wouldn't take many leaks like that to total the ****ing house!

I tried to find alternative folks to do the job but they were either unreliable or unable to do the work (usually b/c of flooring). It's amazing how people were interested until they heard that the floors in that section needs to be refinished (70sqft), then their enthusiasm just fades. Is it really that arduous a task? Never done it, so I have no idea.

For the estimated dollar value the mortgage company has to be involved and endorse the check (apparently an IL law?), which requires me providing the whole quote about the work being done to the bank, and they have to approve it. Additionally, the insurance company requires documentation on the work being done to write the check (which I guess does make sense). The only party that was eager to do it much cheaper and much faster (an independent guy with good reviews willing to do it for 6.5k$) didn't want to go through the headache of preparing a doc that would get signed off. He was fine up to the point of learning about that, and then just disappeared lol.

So now I have a contract guaranteeing it'll be done in 60 days, and the estimated work time is marked at 3 ******** weeks. The cheaper/faster guy said he could get the room put back together himself in 2.5 days, but said floors could take longer depending on how much needed to be done.

What I learned is that $31k dollars just isn't the incentivize I thought it was. I'm truly amazed by it.

 

[Racerx]

Update:
The "cheapest" contractor won the bid. $31k + $9.7k for mitigation work. All in for about 40k$ from a simple leak. Thank god it wasn't something more severe. Wouldn't take many leaks like that to total the ****ing house!

I tried to find alternative folks to do the job but they were either unreliable or unable to do the work (usually b/c of flooring). It's amazing how people were interested until they heard that the floors in that section needs to be refinished (70sqft), then their enthusiasm just fades. Is it really that arduous a task? Never done it, so I have no idea.

For the estimated dollar value the mortgage company has to be involved and endorse the check (apparently an IL law?), which requires me providing the whole quote about the work being done to the bank, and they have to approve it. Additionally, the insurance company requires documentation on the work being done to write the check (which I guess does make sense). The only party that was eager to do it much cheaper and much faster (an independent guy with good reviews willing to do it for 6.5k$) didn't want to go through the headache of preparing a doc that would get signed off. He was fine up to the point of learning about that, and then just disappeared lol.

So now I have a contract guaranteeing it'll be done in 60 days, and the estimated work time is marked at 3 ******** weeks. The cheaper/faster guy said he could get the room put back together himself in 2.5 days, but said floors could take longer depending on how much needed to be done.

What I learned is that $31k dollars just isn't the incentivize I thought it was. I'm truly amazed by it.

Floors suck. Especially corners where you hand sand/scrape. I've done my own. 70sq feet is nothing. Most contractors don't do floors. Most flooring wouldn't be interested in such a small job. It's easy to screw up the smaller areas than large. Even though it's small. It's multiple days.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Most contractors don't do floors.

That's exactly what they said. I had 2 smaller handyman style outfits say they could do all the other stuff no problem and have it put back together in no time, but I have to get someone else for flooring. The really expensive GCs are the only "one stop shop" for that stuff.

 

[Racerx]

That's exactly what they said. I had 2 smaller handyman style outfits say they could do all the other stuff no problem and have it put back together in no time, but I have to get someone else for flooring. The really expensive GCs are the only "one stop shop" for that stuff.

I rented all the sanders from Menards and did my own floors in my rental. Then did the laundry room at my mom's. The small room sucked. The rental, the floors were badly cupped and were stained. Took forever to get the stain off. Real easy to put burn marks in, especially in a small space. Took 3 coats of poly to finish em off. Came out ok, but a damn slog.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Yeah, I'm woefully ignorant to how refinishing works. I wouldn't want to attempt it on my own and risk screwing up the floors. Last thing I need is burn marks all over the ground!

For reference, the red mark is the floor they insist should be refinished.
The rest of the floor outside the red circle was completely unaffected (minus some loose debris from the destruction work they left behind lol).

Personally I can't tell the difference by appearance, but I guess I don't know floors.

 

[Racerx]

Yeah, I'm woefully ignorant to how refinishing works. I wouldn't want to attempt it on my own and risk screwing up the floors. Last thing I need is burn marks all over the ground!

For reference, the red mark is the floor they insist should be refinished.
The rest of the floor outside the red circle was completely unaffected (minus some loose debris from the destruction work they left behind lol).

Personally I can't tell the difference by appearance, but I guess I don't know floors.
View attachment 139037

I would expect that staining to stay. I absolutely would not refinish just that area.

If I was a hardwood guy, I would not be interested in doing a partial. It's all or nothing. bit that's me not being a hardwood guy either.

Id screen and recoat the whole thing or leave it alone....or cut out that are and tile up to the doorway.

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah, I'm woefully ignorant to how refinishing works. I wouldn't want to attempt it on my own and risk screwing up the floors. Last thing I need is burn marks all over the ground!

For reference, the red mark is the floor they insist should be refinished.
The rest of the floor outside the red circle was completely unaffected (minus some loose debris from the destruction work they left behind lol).

Personally I can't tell the difference by appearance, but I guess I don't know floors.
View attachment 139037

If they just refinished that small area, it would be tough to match and make you happy.

 

[Racerx]

I am curious if these quotes you got were broken down at all. Really, the correct way is to remove and replace what's there and refinish the whole floor. Most likely that stained portion is permanently stained and sanding isn't going to remove it.

If that's a foyer or a higher traffic Area. Id think hard about cutting the floor out and tiling back up to that. Otherwise the only way to do it right is recoat the whole thing and replace the dark boards.

A picture is worth 1,000 words and seeing that area I can see how this quote got so high....if the quotes were to do it right and rip out and replace that area and refinish everything.